Zoletil as anaesthesia for neutering??

[tailof2rabbits]

Hi all. I'm seriously considering getting Marbles neutered and as I am from the third world, I need to make sure I'm picking the right vet, if there is even any.

This one vet told me he uses Zoletil. Is it safe?

He also said he wants to keep the rabbit overnight to watch over it. I don't know how I feel about this. There will be dogs and cats in the room with Marbles while he's recuperating. He will be terrified and probably won't eat or drink.

He also told me not feed overnight. Everything I know goes against this. He explained that even though they don't throw up, it's best he not be full going into the surgery. I was thinking of withholding food for four hours, but overnight is way too long, right? Especially since I expect he'll go into GI stasis for a few hours after the surgery.

I lost Mocha last 2007 and he's my one and only now, and my very first. Really need this to go perfectly.

Help, please?

Edit: He's also 3.3 years old now. Is it still safe?

 

[irishlops]

um... i agree with you.i dont have any adivice sadly......
but ill look in to this later on for you..
expecally the dog and cat thing........
hope more help will ome soon for you

 

[mouse_chalk]

I don't know anything about the aneasthesia but I'll move this to the Infirmary so this can be answered better there

I would agree with you that witholding food overnight isn't necessary- from my experience with spaying my bunnies (not had one neutered yet) it's better to have food inside them, to keep their guts moving- especially if they're a little slow to recover and begin eating properly afterwards. I know that my vets always give them hay to munch up to shortly before they go into the surgery, so that they can see that they're eating properly, and I always take a 'packed lunch' in with mine that they get fed afterwards...


Did you ask the vet about getting pain meds for him?

 

[Maureen Las]

I don't know what Zoletil is and unless you get a definitive "yes it's OK" from someone then I would not have the surgery done at all by this vet. Since a rabbit shouldn "t be fasted how can you trust this choice of anesthesia.
it is possible that there is another name for the same drug . I am trying to look it up but so far have not found it

here is a list from medi-rabbit
once again if you do not get a "yes this is safe" from someone here or on etherbun cancel the surgery


http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Anesthesia/Safe_Anesthesia.htm

 

[Maureen Las]

http://www.nus.edu.sg/lac/html/anim_anaesthesia.htm

Zolatil is recommended for goats in lab animals

 

[Maureen Las]

http://www.hrschicago.org/anesthesia1.html

http://www.hrschicago.org/anesthesia2.html


I would cancel
Maureen

 

[tonyshuman]

I have found it used for dogs and cats:
http://www.virbac.cz/zoletil_guide_cats.html
It is a mixture of a tranquilizer (zolazepam) and a dissociative anesthetic (tiletamine.)
http://www.answers.com/topic/zoletil

This paper's abstract says that a zolazepam-tiletamine combo in rabbits DID NOT provide analgesia or anesthesia: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11424577?dopt=Abstract

This book says it doesn't work for rabbits: http://books.google.com/books?id=2C...zdynBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result

This document (from Cornell School of Vet Med, a very good source) says it is a dissociative and not a good anesthetic and can cause renal toxicity:
http://www.research.cornell.edu/care/documents/SOPs/CARE103.pdf


This paper (which I don't trust very well considering the source isn't as good a vet school as Cornell and small number of references) says it's ok:
http://www.vet.chula.ac.th/~tjvm/full_text/v38/v381/38-1-77.pdf

My opinion is that it's not ok for rabbits because it doesn't give real anesthesia, just makes the animals weak enough to not react to pain--they still are aware of what's going on and can feel pain. That's my reading of these sources. Maybe others can read them too and see what they think. Also, definitely ask the vet if they have used this anesthetic on rabbits before, since it is shown to work in dogs and cats but they are different from rabbits.

Also don't withhold food. The rabbit's GI needs to start back up again quickly after surgery and having an empty stomach and intestines is not going to be good for it.

 

[Maureen Las]

Great Info Claire !

 

[Hazel-Mom]

Zoletil is a brand name for Tiletamine. In medirabbit it says this about it:

Tiletamine/Zolazepam 10 – 25 mg/kg IM Should be avoided for use in rabbits, due to possible renal tubular necrosis, except when used intranasally (10 mg/kg)

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Anesthesia/Safe_Anesthesia.htm

 

[ra7751]

I would cancel....this is scary. A huge red flag went up just with the removing of food the night before. Never got to the anestesia.

There is a lot of misinformation about using anesthesias in rabbits. Many still believe that Isoflurane is the only safe anesthesia. Not accurate. Sevoflurane is an excellent inhalent anesthesia....works quickly with a fast rebound. Many also still believe that injectable anesthesias are unsafe....also inaccurate if the correct drugs are used. Injectable anethesia is great for dental or more complex surgeries....much easier to control, a skilled vet can intubate and the drugs are reversible with an injection of reversing agent.

Just wondering..what is your general location? Some of us might can help you find a real rabbit savvy vet.

Randy

 

[tailof2rabbits]

I live in the Philippines. Someone please tell me you know someone here who can do this because I've been looking for 2 and a half years.

I found one this morning (not the one I wrote about to start this thread) - no withholding of food, and it's an out-patient procedure with him (thank god). My only problem is he also uses Zoletil.

Is Isoflurane administered via mask enough?

 

[Hazel-Mom]

hi tailof2rabbits,
the site I mentioned ( http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Anesthesia/Safe_Anesthesia.htm ) mentions many choices for safe anesthesia for rabbits.
Maybe you can print it out and show to the vet. There may be something on there that is available to vets where you live.

 

[Maureen Las]

the isuflorane per mask is good but since we are not vets it is hard to give a definitive answer
the Zolatil can be used intranasally ..maybe he uses it this way

to be really honest since we are not vets it is very difficult to tell you what to do with anesthesia

Find out more about how he uses the zolatil and show him the medirabbit sheet.
Express your concerns and ask him how many rabbits he does in a year and if he has lost any.
Can you meet with the vet prior to the neuter ?

if it is out-patient that is good as the rabbits must come out of anesthesia quickly and can go home same -day.

this vet may have some potential to be good
but since we are not vets it really is beyond our scope to discuss anesthesia but only to give you the info that we find.
I am thinking that you could post this on the yahoo etherbun group and maybe get a definite anwer.