Wild Rats - a warning. *warning: graphic description*

[undergunfire]

NZminilops wrote:

Oh gosh yes, I agree with you there Amy. I adore pet rats! They are such wonderful critters.

You can no more hate the wild rat for doing what he needed to do, than to hate the wild lion for hunting on the plains. It's just nature, it's sad and not nice to see or experience, but to hate the rat or hurt it wont fix the baby bunny.

I agree, Michelle.



Jenson, instead of butally killing the wild rats...you can set live traps or get pest censors that keep them away.

You killing the rats is like....a farmer killing wild rabbits for eating his crops. I am deeply disturbed by you explaining how you are planning to kill the rats (as I am a rat lover).



It is just plain inhumane to kill an animal, wild or domestic.

 

[Jenson]

Thanks Amy.

Yep, I think it is a Norway rat, it's huge. I didn't want to kill it, I have had a humane trap set up for months with fresh food in every few days but it just won't go for it.

I don't know what else I can do, I can't just let it carry on and see this happen again! As you said before, wild rats are very different from domestic ones, so we can't treat it the same as we would a domestic one. It's dangerous, not only to the rabbits but I worry about getting bitten myself. If you know of any other humane ways of getting rid of it I could try I would love to hear them, I'd rather not kill it if I had the choice.

That said, I don't think it's unfair of me to feel like enough is enough now, it's been causing trouble for months, has attacked several adult rabbits in the past and I've given it a chance with the humane trap.
I have to put my rabbits first, and I can't sit back and let it be when it's literally tearing the heads off my bunnies!

I don't want to give domestic ratties a bad name at all, and we must remember that it's wild and is just following it's instincts, but either way, it is a real danger (espeically as the population in the UK is so huge) and I'd hate to see anyone else have to deal with losing a rabbit in that way.


That's really interesting about the Manx rats, the tails have always put me off. Going to go find a picture of one!

 

[undergunfire]

Bunnicula wrote:

And, unfortunately, wild rats are often harbingers of disease such as rabies and hantavirus.

Actually...that is a mith. There has never been a reported case of a rat carrying rabies.

The chances of any rat getting rabies is extremely slim. If a rat was bitten by an animal carrying the rabies disease...chances are that the rat will die from the initial bite....or will die only a few hours later from fear.



Rats (wild or domesticated) hide their illness until they are on the brink of death. That is why when our domesticated rats come down with upper respiratory infections or ear infections...you have hours to get to the vet to catch and cure the illness.

It is also extremely rare for a rat to infect a human with anything. If you get a bite or a scratch from a wild or domestic rat, you should still breathe easy...and just dress and bandage the wound. A doctors visit for a shot is a smart idea if you have been scratched or bitten by a wild rat...but your changes of catching anything or dieing are next to nothing.






EDIT TO ADD: I just found this site.... http://www.ratbehavior.org/DryBite.htm

 

[undergunfire]

Jenson wrote:

If you know of any other humane ways of getting rid of it I could try I would love to hear them, I'd rather not kill it if I had the choice.

Could you call in a wildlife rehabilitator to catch the rat and release it far away? Is it just one rat that you have seen?

I would possibly try another form of live trap. Your wild rat may have found a way to out-smart your current trap.



Wild rats, and domesticated rats, are insanely smart.....unfortunately.



My domestic rats can probably solve a rubic's cube before I could :nope:

 

[Jenson]

I have read many websites listing the diseases people can by affected by after being bitten by a wild rat. They may be wrong, but it seems like it's a pretty real danger!

Examples:

"They are known to be reservoirs of bubonic plague (transmitted to man by the bite of a flea or other insect), endemic typhus fever, ratbite fever, and a few other dreaded diseases. Because of this it is commonly said that Norway and roof rats are more dangerous than lions or tigers!"

"[font="ARIAL, HELVETICA"]They are subject to persistent pest control due to the damage they cause and the numerous diseases they spread."

"[/font][font="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"]Norway rats gnaw objects, eat stored food, and transmit disease by droppings and urine, bites, and the fleas and mites in their fur."

"[/font]Brown rats carry some diseases, including Weil's disease, cryptosporidiosis, Viral hemorrhagic fever (VHF), Q fever and hantavirus pulmonary syndrome."

With that plus the brutal killing or baby rabbits in mind, am I wrong to want the thing out of my shed?

 

[Jenson]

My boyfriend called a wildlife centre when he had a problem with mice, they just said they were vermin and wern't there problem and told him to call pest control. They wanted nothing to do with it, so that's not an option.

It is just the one I'm sure, and it either had out smarted the trap or is too smart to go near it in the first place! It's a very good trap and very sensitive, so I think it's just too smart. I have been looking for humane traps but they all work in a simlar way to mine so I don't think it would be effective.

I just don't think I have any other options, he's not going to fall for a humane trap.

How about I get a female rattie to tempt it in, lol?

 

[Leaf]

What steps can you take to secure the shed from rats?

Yes, they are buggars that can get into almost anything - with temptation. There may be some simple steps you can take to help rat-proof your area.

Ridding the shed of that one rat will do just that - rid the area of one.

Routines, feeding, storage and methods of cleaning and waste removal may need to be looked at closely.

 

[undergunfire]

Plague:

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/cerc/danoff-burg/invasion_bio/inv_spp_summ/Yersinia_pestis.htm

The plague can be carried on all rodents, but it seems rats always get the blame.



Here is a site that tells the truth:

http://www.ratbehavior.org/DryBite.htm



Diseases from rat bites are extremely rare.

 

[undergunfire]

Read over this site. It is a site coming from a rat-person about wild rats and how to handle them.

http://www.rathelp.org/WildRats.html



Wildv.s.Domestic? Another great article toread over:

http://www.rathelp.org/WildVsDomesticated.html





I still do not agree with killing, though. It is your choice, of course, but if you do decide to kill the rats...then please do not post about it on the forum...as it upsets me and any other rat lovers that may be on the forum.

 

[ellissian]

Jenson I'm so sorry about your baby bunny.

We have also had a wild rat problem in my area a few months ago. My neighbours actually said it was my fault they had moved into the area because of my rabbit hutch. It was when I first got Milly and he only lived in the hutch for 2 days (no nights) until I brought him inside 24/7. They all called pest control to get poison put down, I pretended I had but I never. They either moved on or died not long after as I heard there is a problem anymore.

 

[Jenson]

I can't rat-proof my shed without having the roof completly re-done, building on top of the dividing wall (the shed is built onto the garage), having the door frames taken off and the whole door re-done and blocking up the air vent.

I keep my food and hay in plastic boxes and waste it taken straight to big plastic bins. The only food around it whatever the rabbits kick out, and I sweep that up whenever I am in the shed.

Other than that, I can't do much more. I can't afford to to have to roof and doors re-done with uni and bills to pay for.

 

[Haley]

Yeah the problem is that ridding the area of this one rat doesnt guarantee that another wont come.. and another and another..

I'd work very hard to safety proof my rabbit's hutch and area. What can be done to make it so a rat cant get in? There has to be strongerwire or something, right?

 

[Jenson]

undergunfire wrote:

I still do not agree with killing, though. It is your choice, of course, but if you do decide to kill the rats...then please do not post about it on the forum...as it upsets me and any other rat lovers that may be on the forum.

I don't agree with killing any animal unnecessarily either, and given the choice I would much rather find a more humane option, but I don't feel that I have one. I will do as much research as I can to try and find a way of captuing it, but I am not going to sit back and give it a chance to kill my rabbits like that, because I think that is just as cruel. It's not as if I havn't tried the humane way...it hasn't worked.

I just wanted to warn people of the danger. I think if anybody here saw one of their rabbits killed the way I just did they would feel they had to do whatever it takes to protect their buns.

I'm sorry I upset you. I didn't mean to offend anyone!

 

[undergunfire]

Jenson wrote:

I can't rat-proof my shed without having the roof completly re-done, building on top of the dividing wall (the shed is built onto the garage), having the door frames taken off and the whole door re-done and blocking up the air vent.

I keep my food and hay in plastic boxes and waste it taken straight to big plastic bins. The only food around it whatever the rabbits kick out, and I sweep that up whenever I am in the shed.

Other than that, I can't do much more. I can't afford to to have to roof and doors re-done with uni and bills to pay for.

Chances are...if you shed isn't even rat proofed...then it may not even be completely safe enough to keep out larger animals.


You will find that if you set death traps....the rats will quickly learn that they are a danger....and will never go near them. It only takes a few rat deaths rats seen by other rats...to know that something is a danger to them.

If the rats are too smart to use a live trap, then too smart to use a death trap....then what? You will still have the same problem. Poison is not the answer...your rabbits could accidentally get to some...and I don't mean by eating it. A rat could have the poison on his feet....walk through a bowl of pellets or climbing up the side of the rabbit hutch...then the rabbit could eat the poison from the pellets or lick it off the hutch....then you will have dangered your rabbits as well.


The only real solution would be to completely rat proof your shed. If they can't get in....then they aren't a danger.

 

[Jenson]

My shed is made from brick and the doors are massive and very heavy (hence needing new frames) so it is perfectly safe from larger animals. It's just got small gaps under the door, and the roof beams have gaps outside, so nothing bigger than a rat can get in. I have put wire across the bottom of the door and the roof gaps were filled with foam, but there is nothing to stop it coming in in the day when the door is open.

It has also been in our house, so even if I could stop it going to the shed wouldn't it look for a way back into the house to find food? If that happened, it would definitly be poisoned.

If I were to use a death trap, I would only need to get the one anyway, so that isn't a problem. We know there is only one, they found the nest when they cleared the other shed.

I do worry about poisons with the rabbits around, which is why I said I planned to leave baited food outside the shed. The hutches are also safe, I have put smaller wire on them so there's no chance of it getting in.

I have tried and tried to deal with this without killing for months, but the fact is, it's vermin, it's a killer and it's had plenty of chances.

 

[undergunfire]

Honestly....if there is one rat....there is more. Rats are pack animals. They stay in groups....as little as a few...to a hundred. You may think you are only seeing one, but you could be seeing six different rats...at different times. One rat will usually venture out to see if things are safe....then if they are....they rest will follow. They of course, will not all venture out with you in the shed.

If you don't want to take my advice, than that is okay. With all honesty...the problem will more than likely not be solved until your shed is completely redone to keep rats out.

You can kill one rat, but there will always be another that follows. If one rat is dumb enough to fall for the death trap....then the next set of rats will not fall for it.


Rats are insanely smart, and many people don't realize it and will not accept it.


The death traps will only work for so long, but when they stop working.....then what?

 

[Jenson]

The council men found the rats nest, it had a very big nest inside a box filled with all sorts of bits an bobs it must have collected, there was just the one rat in there.
I realise another might come after it, but I think it's unlikely since there will be no food or nesting area availble. I think the reason this one is still here is because it has been here so long, when it first appeared I was keeping the food in bags so it had plenty to eat.

Again, even if I rat proof the shed, what about the house? Driving the rat away from the shed by keeping it out is just going to bring it back into the house.

I appreciate your advice and vast knowlage of rats, but at the moment there is no better option than dealing with the one we have right now. If it doesn't end there, there I'll have to think of something else.

I'm not a cruel person, I don't want to have to kill any creature, but if you had found one of your rabbits killed the way I had to, I'm sure you'd understand my need to deal with it in whatever way I can.

I will do my best to catch it humanely. What can I do to make the trap seem less of a threat? Covering it in fabric, maybe?

 

[Haley]

I just wanted to say that I appreciate how mature both of you are being discussing this topic. It makes me so happy when two people can debate something tastefully to try to reach a better conclusion.

And, in the end, if your only option is to dispose of the rat to save the bunnies, then at least you tried other routes and listened to the advice given here. (just maybe dontpost it on the forum? )

 

[HoneyPot]

Ok really - what is this debate about?

Jenson - I think you just need to really make sure that the buns are safe and secure from now on and when you have them out, maybe building them a large run that they can play in so that if there are rats in your shed, that they can't get to the buns.

Let's refrain from too much of the descriptive rat killing as there are members on here that would prefer not to know or think about it.

I've chosen the well being of my bunnies over mice in the past, so I know exactly where you are coming from. Sometimes you have to choose.

I am not going to argue the finer points of rat myths, but the fact is, the rats killed the bun, the bun is what Jenson is trying to protect, what is the smartest and most effective way to protect the buns....

If you can't keep the rats out, then like a few members have said, gotta make sure you keep the baby buns IN - so a bit more security maybe.

We're leaving this thread up because it is a good warning to those who keep their buns in outdoor enclosures, but at the same time, please keep it toned down and family friendly (not to say that the initial post was family friendly per se....)



Nadia

 

[undergunfire]

Jenson wrote:

Again, even if I rat proof the shed, what about the house? Driving the rat away from the shed by keeping it out is just going to bring it back into the house.


I will do my best to catch it humanely. What can I do to make the trap seem less of a threat? Covering it in fabric, maybe?

I'd rather have a rat in my house...than out in my shed killing my rabbits. As I said though, it is ultimately your choice whether or not to kill the rat(s), but I would just prefer you to not discuss that choice on the forum.


Anyway....

You could take some dirt from outside...and pack it up and around the trap, then cover the trap with leaves and hay.

I would suggest cooking chicken, beef, liver, or any other meat....then bringing it straight outside when it is still nice and hot and smelly....then put it in the trap. The rat will get whiffs of yummy meat...and they may lure him into the trap.



I want you to know that I am trying to not be harsh in my words at all. I am just trying to help you out and understand the rat species better, then leave you to decide how to protect your rabbits from there.

:hug: