WHY I DON'T ENCOURAGE FOLKS TO BREED!!!

[TinysMom]

(Lisa is a close personal breeder friend of mine and we have both beenbreeding for 2 years almost now. She takes awesome care of her rabbitsand people are now driving from other states to get rabbits from her.

She and I think a lot alike about our rabbits and Lisa has probablyspent more in vet bills and medicines this year then she spent in food~ and she just paid over $100 for high quality Oxbow hay for herrabbits.

She is one of my most respected breeder friends -so please...listen to what she has to say).

I understand that not all breeders will stay up allnight for does to kindle - not all of them can. But whenever Lisa has asick animal that is going to pass over the bridge- OR an animal that isabout to kindle....she stays with them so they are not alone.




Lisa says:
the bunnies that were due have been a disaster

the holland had one live two dead and one stuck kit

the AFL has had two dead thus far and one stuck kit too

I think she has one more to go yet

Lionhead Lady says:
oh no

do you help them deliver stuck kits or do you take them to the vet?

Lisa says:

the lions are doing ok except that ---- has two peanuts out of three

I delivered them

oxytocin and lubricant!

patience and determination

Lionhead Lady says:
ok

poor girls

Lisa says:
poor ----- just cried and whimpered

----- took it a bit better but is having some residual problems

they will of course spend the next couple weeks on PenB

which they do not like either

Lionhead Lady says:

right

poor baby

I have a question for you...

As you know - I'm the mod on a forum....we're all the time trying to convince folks to
not breed unless they learn about breeding, etc

do you mind if I copy and paste some of what you've shared - without using your name

and use it as a post on the board to share with folks WHY we warn about the dangers of breeding?

and how things can go wrong?

Lisa says:

sure

it has been horrible for these girls and with someone less experienced,they would have suffered and died by morning when the vet comes in

these things never happen during office hours

Lionhead Lady says:

ok thanks

I'm going to copy that too

Lisa says:

so people must be prepared to deal with things themselves

hopefully they will have a full recovery, but they will never be bred again

theres people who think it is quick and easy money best think again. The one doe cost us $125, the other $100.

we have one live kit from one and nothing live from the other and they can never be bred again

we may still lose the girls to infection, but have hopes of pulling them through.

This now makes four hollands/afl that we have had to pull from our breeding program for the same reason.

We cannot sell them either and take the chance that someone would try to breed them

these are all nice does from good lines, (Removing the names of the lines)

Very nice girls, but not worth risking their health by breeding again

This is one reason we sell so few for breeding

Lionhead Lady says:

I'm copying all of this except for the names of the lines..

We get teenage girls all the time joining and then talking about how they want to breed their cute bunnies, etc

its become a chronic issue now

Lisa says:

most people are not willing to put in the sleepless nights, the endless worry and the high vet bills.

to think how many bunnies will be in a dark barn all alone tonightsuffering the same fate as these girls with no one to help them.

Most will be dead by the time they are found

breeding is not for those who will only do it half hearted

it is either a full time commitment, or not at all

I really wish people were more responsible in their breeding efforts

they think they can just throw two bunnies together and rake in the money 12 weeks later!

Breeding is not for everyone

you should try to make that clear

Lionhead Lady:

Trust me ... we try to make it clear

Lisa says:

I can only do it because I am here all day everyday.

Lionhead Lady says:

and can stay up all night with the does?

when they're due to kindle?

Lisa says:

sometimes several nights in a row

lots of coffee!!

I should take stock in Maxwell House and Folgers


and for those who may wonder....

Lisa says:

I sold two pets today

I put them through the usual barrage of questions!

they passed, so they were allowed to purchase one of our little darlings!!

I only have older bunnies

all are at least 12 weeks old

no young bunnies

some are 5 and 6 months old

all leave with the understanding they come back here if they do not want them or they do not work out

 

[Haley]

Thanks for posting this, Peg. I think people whowant to breed often think we are just making this up or something. Theydont realize how heartbreaking breeding can be (and howexpensive).

Lisa sounds like a wonderful person though. I just wish there were more who cared like you guys do.

 

[MyBoyHarper]

I completely agree with everything Haley said,your friend Lisa sounds like such a wonderful caring breeder just likeyourself. I hope that young (and older) people who come on wanting tobreed with no experience will read that and think twice. In the end,the only one to suffer are the rabbits.

 

[Legacygirl]

I understand what she saying. But someof us breed and care for our rabbits. I stayed up all night a wholeweek until my rabbit was giving birth, I been there every since. It washard, but I do it because I care. All five babies are doinggreat.

 

[Phinnsmommy]

People also think the excuse "I will find good homes for them" is okay.

IT ISNT!

Because every bunnie that is sold from a breeder (non- responsible one)means that is one less bunny in a shelter that could have been adopted.Do you guys know what ends up with those guys? They end up beingeuthanized or living there whole life without a family.

I REALLY respect the responsible breeders, the other ones just make me sad

Silvie&Phinn

 

[ec]

This is heartbreaking - and something I wish more people cared about...

to think how many bunnies will be in a dark barn all alonetonight suffering the same fate as these girls with no one to help them.

Most will be dead by the time they are found

I hope that people who read this thread will take this seriously. The thought of it brings tears to my eyes.

Rabbits are marvelous little creatures, and deserve far better than this kind of life - and death.

Peg, thank you so much for caring - and please let Lisa knowthat her words have had an impact. (Though in my case, you're bothpreaching to the choir.)

 

[grumpybabies]

I'm feeling really bad now, i have had 2accidental breedings, one i have 6 babies from and one only happened 3days ago, but i do keep my accidents and i warn my vet that my bun ispregnant and when it's due in case i need him in an emergency, but minewere accidents, notat all planned.I have to admitthough,i did think about breeding one litter deliberatelywith 2 holland lops, again only to keep the offspring, but after advicei'm not going to and now, andi had this accident happen 3days ago (and please believe me when i say this was an accident) i amagain going to keep the babies, save money for vets bills etc, soplease don't think bad of me.

Can i ask a question though, when can a person start to try and breed?When they have show quality rabbits and know all the genetic lines,would that only be enough knowledge to start with? Or should you workwith a rabbit breeder first as a mentor? Please don't think this isbeing argumentitive, it is trying toask what you shouldideally know or do before thinking about breeding so i can know what isbest in case in years to come i would like to do it properly.

 

[TinysMom]

LegacyGirl,

The comments were NOT directed at you - or at people who read about breeding OR learn about breeding before they breed.

You've been in ARBA - you've learned about breeding, etc.

However, over the last few months, this forum has had a fairly largenumber of younger members who have come online and had "accidental"breedings or were going to breed no matter what....and it didn't matterif they couldn't get to a vet or couldn't afford a vet or whatever.

Lisa was sharing how out of four does she had (I think it was four?) -two of them had stuck kits (first litters) and she had to helpthem.

Imagine if their owner had been someone who wasn't around to tend to them?

So I was trying to share some potential things that an EXPERIENCEDbreeder was having happen - so that those who were "toying" with theidea would see that there CAN be very real danger...

Most does are fine - but things CAN happen.

Peg

 

[naturestee]

Great thread! Peg, give my thanks toLisa for letting you cross-post that. Any chance she'd wantto come here and chime in?

 

[TinysMom]

Oh my....you don't want that.

First of all - if folks think I'm blunt....they haven't met Lisa...shewon't pull punches. She is against any type of irresponsible breeding -even by "breeders".

But most of all - she's pretty darn busy. Let me put it this way - ifyou have three or four rabbits and they keep you busy - imagine having100....

Lisa cleans litter boxes every other day for her litters and mamas andsomething like twice a week for her other rabbits. She's FASTIDIOUSabout the care of her rabbits. She even took a litter box with herlittle guy to Nationals last year and she said he was looking at all ofthe bucks around him who were spraying and it was almost as if he wassaying, "don't you let my mama see you do that..". (Hers are litter boxtrained from an early age).

She also raises birds - I forget how many kinds...

But she is so busy with her rabbits and her birds that I don't think she'd have time for this site (I have mentioned it to her).


Lisa's care of her rabbits really encourages me to be better with myown rabbits too. I don't how many nights I've stayed up late talking toher all night or till 3 or 4 am in the morning so she could be awake tofeed a sick rabbit every 2 hours. (The one I remember the most - pulledthrough. He had a case of coccidia and lived on her desk for severaldays and even now - his cage is less than 5 feet away I think).

So I suspect she's too darn busy cleaning cages to be online here.

Peg

naturestee wrote:

Great thread!Peg, give my thanks to Lisa for letting you cross-post that.Any chance she'd want to come here and chime in?

 

[JadeIcing]

She seems like an amazing woman.

 

[polly]

Its good to see, we had propblems withour firstcouple of litters our first, boo had her first baby then the othersdidn't seem to come so she had 2 trips to the vet to keep an eye on herthey then decided it was to risky so took her in and sectioned her,they gave her back as soon as she started coming round as she had onebaby and they thought they would do better at home as our vet knows wer good with our buns and my husband slept in beside her so he couldkeep an eye out for the first couple of days we had to give her a bitof veg and put baby under her for a feed then she took over .

Now we take shifts when our babys are due so there is always one of uson hand and stay with them to make sure every thing goes ok and if oneis on shift when something starts they get the other up. its lovely tobe with them and help if needs be.

I have also found a great girl who is very strict and really vetspeople out and makes sure they know what they are taking on so if idon't sell personally she is the only person i will let sell for me andshe has her own bunnies. i have seen this girl do all sorts for herbuns. To be honest i can't imagine not breeding like this and it isnice to see we are not the only breeders to do this cause no one i haveever got my bunnies from seems to and we have had many discussionsabout were we being over protective now i feel happy we are going inthe right direction.