What does it take to eradicate parasites--seriously?

[Jenk]

After the larva of a parasite (type undetermined) was observed on one of our rabbits, both buns were started on Revolution. (Our cat had been started on it three days' earlier; he was the first to demonstrate increased scratching.)

All three pets went through four rounds of Revolution, given every two weeks'. (As mentioned in another thread, I put the Revolution on one patch of bare skin; so a lot of it still spread out to their fur. Alas.)

We also had our house exterminated twice. (It was sprayed, not fogged, primarily because the problem was caught early; the exterminator said fogging is "overkill" in most cases.)

For two months' now, I've been doing laundry out of plastic garbage bags, and I vacuumed the upstairs of the house (where the problem originated) for 18 days' straight. After that, I still vacuumed twice weekly. (Each vacuum bag was thrown out after its one-time use.)

For the last month, all three pets exhibited normal scratching/grooming behavior. Then on Monday night, we re-expanded the rabbits' exercise space back to the way it was prior to the parasite issue. (We decreased it two months' ago when this issue started.)

Since Monday night, I've noticed the rabbits starting to groom a lot more--to the point that that's what one of them primarily does when he's out for exercise. They're going for their feet, faces, ears, chest, thighs, and backside more than I've seen them do since their second Revolution dose.

I am terrified by the idea of this problem not being over. We've already spent a lot of money to deal with it. And if it's not over, I don't know what we're going to do. (I feel especially anxious/upset about the idea because we had a bad, drawn-out mite issue three years' ago; I'm still burned out from that experience, not to mention from all the work I've done these last two months' to deal with the recent parasite issue.)


Jenk

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Keep an eye on things and hit it hard if it starts up again. Maybe ask your vet what can be done to eradicate once and for all.

 

[Jenk]

Nancy McClelland wrote:

Keep an eye on things and hit it hard if it starts up again. Maybe ask your vet what can be done to eradicate once and for all.

It's been my experience that vets don't know enough about the life cycle of parasites, specifically how they can survive in the home environment apart from a host. (We learned that the hard way with the mite issue three years' ago, when the vet advised us to treat the animals only with three rounds of Revolution given two weeks' apart. Even a veterinary dermatologist told me she typically advises owners to treat just the pets, not the house as well.)

This time around, the exterminator advised us to not treat the animals because, per his estimation, the chemical treatment should be enough and could "double-dose" the animals pesticide-wise. (I can only imagine how much worse things likely would've gotten had I listened to him.) And that's the other problem: exterminators don't seem to know how parasites complete a life cycle on a host. So both parties that we pet owners rely on--vets and exterminators--can give conflicting info. that is anything but helpful.

I really feel that I am going to crack if what I'm observing is real. We're on the verge of the holidays, which makes the timing of things even more difficult. It's already been two months' of daily fighting of the parasite issue. Plus, I'd feel guilty about having to treat the pets with at least another three rounds of Revolution--which would make it a minimum of seven rounds of it this time around. (Due to inaccurate advice given about the previous mite situation, the pets received six rounds of Revolution and three Ivermectin shots, as well.)

I realize I'm venting at this point, but I am wrung out like a dishrag. It was four years' of nursing Zoe through megacolon/stasis issues. I nurse Emma through stasis for weeks at a time, several times per year. Pink gets several bad gas bouts yearly, which give me a heart attack each time. Our cat has IBD and vomits weekly. (Our cat also had foot surgery and multiple vet visits regarding IBD right before this parasite issue started; we spent about $1,500 on his issues in month.) Emma is currently being nursed through another stasis bout, so I'm very scared about having to board her at the vet's several more times while we have more rounds of chemical treatment for the house. (She won't use the litter box when confined and is stressed by loud sounds, like barking dogs--both of which are issues when boarded at the vet's.)

There was a time when my husband would semi-joke about us being "cursed" when it comes to pet ownership. Nowadays, the idea of us being cursed is no longer a joke. And my husband swears that he'll have no part of pet ownership after our current crew is gone. Sadly, I--one of the biggest animals lovers on the planet--am more inclined to agree with him at this point. :tears2:


Jenk

 

[MandyK]

Unfortunately, I don't have any specific advice to give.
All I can say is, you're obviously doing absolutely everything you can. If the parasites survive through your cleaning and your upkeep of the house/pet areas, I would be AMAZED. I have gotten rid of fleas by doing much, MUCH less.

I know it's frustrating and nerve wrecking. All you can do is wait it out for now, but keep in mind that there is nothing else you can do. I've never heard of someone going to the extent of having their house exterminated. It sounds like the odds of the parasites surviving is like 0.000000000000001%.

I think you are noticing the grooming just because you're getting paranoid. They're probably grooming just as much as they normally do, but since you let them back into their bigger exercise area, your brain has you thinking about pests 24/7. Letting them back into that bigger exercise area wouldn't be making them scratch more (in my opinion). If those parasites were still in your house, they would have made their way to your pets by now - with or without you giving the pets more play room.

Since you're getting conflicting info from your vet and your exterminator, why not try contacting a research school? Try contacting the closest university to you, and see if they have anyone you can call who is an expert in parasites and things of this nature. Researchers/professors aren't generally used to give information to the public, but I'm sure they would be willing to help out if you just gave them a call and asked a few questions. (I've actually done this myself, cold calling researchers from my old university with questions about certain bugs in my house. They were more than happy to help).

Good luck!!

 

[Jenk]

MandyK wrote:

All I can say is, you're obviously doing absolutely everything you can. If the parasites survive through your cleaning and your upkeep of the house/pet areas, I would be AMAZED. I have gotten rid of fleas by doing much, MUCH less.

It's true that I have what I call the "parasite routine" down to a science. Of course, that's not to say that the science is perfect and always foils teeny-tiny insects, which can get just about anywhere.

I know it's frustrating and nerve wrecking. All you can do is wait it out for now, but keep in mind that there is nothing else you can do. I've never heard of someone going to the extent of having their house exterminated. It sounds like the odds of the parasites surviving is like 0.000000000000001%.

At the very least, we'd need to wait until Monday (11/21), which is the soonest we could give our cat, Simon, yet another dose of Revolution. (The rabbits were started on Revolution three days after Simon.) On the one hand, I worry about jumping the gun and giving what could be an unnecessary dose of Revolution to our animals; on the other hand, I worry about losing the rhythm of a treatment protocol and having to start it all over again, if it turns out there is still a parasitic issue. Ugh.

I can't say what the chance is of parasites surviving, but I should mention that we have hardwood flooring in much of our upstairs. I suspect that parasites could easily fall/hide beneath the gaps between the planks and possibly survive the spray treatment our house received. (We did not "fog" the house this time around.)

I think you are noticing the grooming just because you're getting paranoid. They're probably grooming just as much as they normally do, but since you let them back into their bigger exercise area, your brain has you thinking about pests 24/7. Letting them back into that bigger exercise area wouldn't be making them scratch more (in my opinion). If those parasites were still in your house, they would have made their way to your pets by now - with or without you giving the pets more play room.

I honestly hope that you're right, that I am feeling paranoid at the present because the pets are once again allowed into their larger exercise space. Actually, there's no doubt that the rabbits are grooming more, but they are shedding. (One is in the middle of his shed; the other is just starting hers.)

My biggest concern is the attention they're also giving to their feet, which is what they did when the recent parasite issue began. Whatever parasite it is, it seems to go for the skin between the toes. (The vet discovered the larva on our male bun's front leg, near his foot.)

My husband said the same thing as you: parasites would've made their way to the pets by now if they were still around. I see his (and your) point and agree. It's still just hard watching the rabbits groom for 10+ minutes straight, scratching emphatically at their faces/ears and focusing on their toes. (They're both licking and chewing on their toes.)

Since you're getting conflicting info from your vet and your exterminator, why not try contacting a research school? Try contacting the closest university to you, and see if they have anyone you can call who is an expert in parasites and things of this nature. Researchers/professors aren't generally used to give information to the public, but I'm sure they would be willing to help out if you just gave them a call and asked a few questions. (I've actually done this myself, cold calling researchers from my old university with questions about certain bugs in my house. They were more than happy to help).

I left a voicemail for an entomologist this time around; he never called me back. The previous time, when we had a mite issue, I spoke with an entomologist in Oklahoma, who is familiar with grass mites. (I think she's with the U. of Oklahoma but can't recall for certain. She was more helpful, for obvious reasons. LOL)

If it becomes obvious that this problem isn't over, I will definitely call another research school. The only snafu I could hit is that many experts can't/won't give advice if the parasite isn't officially identified, as is the case for us. If our problem was/is fleas, we never once saw an adult.


Jenk

 

[pamnock]

Unfortunately, there are some parasites or eggs that may survive treatment. Often a treatment program is used to keep the parasite population under control because, depending on the parasite, complete eradication may be next to impossible.

 

[Jenk]

pamnock wrote:

Unfortunately, there are some parasites or eggs that may survive treatment. Often a treatment program is used to keep the parasite population under control because, depending on the parasite, complete eradication may be next to impossible.

We have two things going for us: 1) the problem didn't become bad before we started treatment of the animals. (Our cat had been scratching more for about six days when he started treatment. The rabbits started scratching more noticeably three days after that, and they then started treatment.) And 2) I vacuumed the upstairs of our house like crazy, doing so for 17 or 18 days straight, I believe.

Technically, the vibration of the vacuum should have caused existing eggs to hatch and encouraged the parasites to either cross the pesticide on the floor or bite the pets, who've been under Revolution treatment. (Their current/4th Revolution treatment starts wearing off this Monday, for our cat, and this Thursday, for our rabbits.)

Still, I do remain rather hyper-vigilant right now. :shock:


Jenk

 

[Jenk]

The great debate is whether or not my husband and I want to give the animals a fifth dose of Revolution (two weeks' after the fourth one was given). We must decide soon; our cat would be due to receive it on Monday, 11/21, and the rabbits would be due to get it on Thurday, 11/24.

It's supposed to be safe to give Revolution as frequently as every two weeks', but I worry about it causing health issues. Besides, Emma's been dealing with stasis issues for over a week now; for all I know, the Revolution could be playing a part in that.

The only reason we're even considering giving a fifth dose is the possibility of any parasites still living in the house. Our biggest fear is having to start the parasite house-/pet-treatment protocol from scratch, if we stop the Revolution treatment and the issue returns without a doubt.

I watched Pinkerton do a number of head shakes/ear scratches this morning and, again, wanted to jump out of my skin. But I don't hear/see the rabbits going at themselves when they're in their pens, so I can't conclude parasites as the cause of itchiness. Plus, our cat isn't scratching abnormally at all; we figure whatever this is would go for him for sure, since the problem started with him.


Jenk

 

[Bluesmaven]

could it be a habit they've developed now that they associate being out with itching? Would some Rescue Remedy help? Maybe try letting them out in some place they aren't used to and see if they scratch there. Would be worth a try.

 

[Jenk]

Bluesmaven wrote:

could it be a habit they've developed now that they associate being out with itching? Would some Rescue Remedy help? Maybe try letting them out in some place they aren't used to and see if they scratch there. Would be worth a try.

I don't know if Rescue Remedy would prove helpful in this situation. (Isn't it used to calm animals during stressful events, such as a car ride to the vet?)

I'm on the fence about giving one of the buns the full amount of space she had prior to the parasite issue. She essentially had access to our entire upstairs (under supervision). We gave her the additional roaming space immediately after we lost Zoe this past August. (We figured the extra room would keep Emma's mind/body occupied; we were right.)

My only concern about giving Emma more space right now is the idea of parasites possibly lying low in areas where the pets haven't gone since the problem started (in late Sept.). Granted, I did vacuum a bazillion times between the house treatments. And I know the pets will eventually need to have access to more space again. (Mind you, the current space the rabbits have is still quite large.)


Jenk

 

[JimD]

Is it possible that the Revolution is irritating their skin?

Revolution contains alcohol, it can dry the skin causing irritation.

 

[Jenk]

JimD wrote:

Is it possible that the Revolution is irritating their skin?

Revolution contains alcohol, it can dry the skin causing irritation.

One of the vet techs. at the clinic told me that, per the vet, Revolution can cause itchiness in general--that pets can scratch more in various places, not just at the application site. (At least I believe I'm recalling that conversation correctly.)

For now, I conclude that there isn't an issue. The beasties do scratch more when they're out for exercise, but I don't hear/witness them scratching abnormally/agitatedly when they're in their pens.


Jenk

 

[Kizza]

Scratching and grooming is quite often a habit that any animal can develop from stress or association as Bluesmaven said, just like humans fidgeting or chewing nails.

Rescue remedy may help if your bunny is associating being out with scratching as it may calm them enough to not feel the associated stress and wont trigger the habits.

It seems to me that either associated stress behaviours are at fault, or they are reinfected with the parasites from elsewhere after you get rid of the with the revolution.

I was a little confused if you were talking about mites or intestinal worms, but either way, have you quarantined them while they are being treated?

Rocky had worms and he was quarantined from outside, my other pets and myself and all of his bedding, food and water was replaced twice a day and i also cleaned his cage twice a day (paranoia much? lol).

I only gave Rocky one dose of revolution and then another follow up dose two weeks later and it hasnt been a problem since.

This is a page I read which helped wot some info on worms (warning, a little graphic in some parts):

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Parasitic_diseases/Nematodes.PDF

Hope you get it sorted out soon

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Is it possible the parasites were Revolution resistant? Maybe you need a different medication?

I know it's tough not to be hyper-aware of every little scratch or nibble after a bout of parasites. Try having kids with head lice. *shudders*

Rue

 

[shawnwk1]

i'll tell ya how to get rid of them, but you won't like it. in order to completely get rid of the problem you would have to get rid of EVERYTHING (clothes, furniture, everything) and move after having your animals treated by a vet and then do 2 more treatments to the animals at 2 week intervals.

now this isn't an option for most people, but seriously treat your animals! and if possible get rid of at least your furniture (bugs thrive on wood and moisture and of course their primary meal..your animals). it is also time to fog your house and not just spray it (best would be fogging and spraying (inside and out) if you really wanna kill them). It's not overkill and if you would have done it the first time when you wanted instead of listening to the exterminator then you probably wouldn't have had to have them come back and would have saved a lot of time, money, and stress. of course he's gonna tell you not to do it cause he knows the spray is only a temporary kill zone and he will have to come back time and time for more money out of your pockets. bombing is the way to go (just make sure all animals and humans are out of the house-the animals for at least 72 hours after the bombing. their lungs are way more sensitive than ours almost like a babies).

 

[Jenk]

shawnwk1 wrote:

it is also time to fog your house and not just spray it (best would be fogging and spraying (inside and out) if you really wanna kill them). It's not overkill and if you would have done it the first time when you wanted instead of listening to the exterminator then you probably wouldn't have had to have them come back and would have saved a lot of time, money, and stress. of course he's gonna tell you not to do it cause he knows the spray is only a temporary kill zone and he will have to come back time and time for more money out of your pockets. bombing is the way to go....

I have since replied that I believe the problem is resolved--that I think I was overreacting to seeing the pets scratching themselves when they're out of their pens. They are not excessively scratching inside of their pens, which seems to be proof enough that nothing is living on them. And since their previous (4th) Revolution treatment was more than two weeks' ago, I think we're fine at this point. (Anything still living should've hatched and latched onto an animal host by now. *shudder at the thought*)

Actually, the fogger ("bomb") is what offers a temporary kill zone, as it's only effective for a few moments' time after its release. And it's only effective on hatched parasites; so anything still in the egg stage is unaffected by it. The insecticide-IGR combination--i.e., the spray--is designed to remain effective for about 30 days' after application, so as to kill any parasites that hatch within that time period. And considering how frequently/thoroughly I vacuumed between the two house treatments, nothing should have survived.


Jenk

 

[shawnwk1]

that's why i said fogging and spraying is best and yes it takes a few foggings to get them all, but that is all usually included in the initial cost.

glad you got it taken care of