What am I doing wrong!

[SunBun]

I've only just joined, so please forgive me ifthese problems have been discussed to death already, but I'm getting abit desparate...



Up to recently I only had one rabbit, aLionhead buck I took in because his previous owners were going away andcouldn’t take him with him. He is my first rabbit so thejourney along the way has been full trails and mistakes. Itook him to the vet recently to be castrated and got a clean bill ofhealth; his weight was good, teeth good - generally a healthy bunny. Iwas pleased. He’s a house rabbit and toilet trained and apartfrom being impossible to pick up, reasonably friendly to a point,energetic, mischievous and comical.



So I decided to get another rabbit, I wantedhim to have company for when I’m at work; I found one from a breeder.She looked just like Floppy in so many ways, a Lionhead/mini lop,similar age but a different colour. She’d had two litterspreviously.



She arrived on Saturday, and I was able to pickher up and place her in her new home, she didn’t seem to mind, so I washopeful that I had found a cuddlier bunny. However thingshave gone downhill from there. I let her out for a run roundthe dining room on Sunday and had a terrible job catching her again toput back in her cage, this is just like Floppy was, and ever since,picking her up has become impossible, she cowers away from me andscrabbles when I try and lift her out of her cage. Last nightshe wriggled free and landed on top of the cage, I was terrified at thetime that she had injured herself. She hasn’t, but I thinkshe really hate me now!



I am fearful I have ruined a previous docilerabbit, and am feeling pretty useless and horrible person. Ijust don’t seem to be able to get the picking up thing right, I know tosupport them under the bottom, but can’t seem to get them in the rightposition to do this, Floppy would leap over my hands and run off, andI’ve already discovered chasing/cornering rabbits is not helpfuleither, nor is grabbing them to keep them still. It horriblereading this back, it almost makes me want to cry.



On top of this, Suki is not toilet trained, andI have tried putting soiled bedding in the tray, fiddling withdifferent litters and placing encouraging foods in reach of the tray toencourage her to use it,. She does use it, in fact she loves the cornertray so much she uses it as an armchair and beds down in it, verycomfy. She has peed in there too, but she quite happy peeingeverywhere else too, in her hut, any available corner, even in her foodbowl yesterday.



The toilet thing is making things difficultwhen she’s out too, she wet over my hand when I was trying to catchher, and generally anywhere the carpet.



I am finding all of this a bit of a worry as Ihad hoped to settle her in by now and have made some progress I haveher booked in to be spayed tomorrow and am terrified of what I am goingto do when she’s recovering.



Am I being too hasty, or just incompetent? I’msorry this is such a long post, but any advice will be muchappreciated. I don’t want to be a horrible rabbit mummy.

 

[Starlight Rabbitry]

Sounds to me like you are trying yourbest. These bunnies are lucky to have such a caringmother!!! I think that the breeder who had Suki just didn'thandle her all that often. My advice is to bepatient. Try petting her in the cage and offering her treatswhile in the cage. Get her used to you touchingher. Don't let her out in a big area until she gets used toyou touching her.

The key is time and patience. Keep us updated!

Sharon

 

[SunBun]

Thank-you for responding so quickly, I'll feel a bit more encouraged now.

It makes sense to keep her in her cage, especially as she is going tobe spayed tomorrow; I was getting really anxious about lifting her outafter the operation. It just seems mean to keep her cooped up.

On the subject of treats, any suggestions, Floppy loves sultanas, but Ican’t get Suki to accept anything I offer her, I’ve also tried smallbits of banana and parsley. She’ll eat them if they are leftin her bowl.. I need a really irresistible bribe!

 

[naturestee]

Hi! Suki is very new and is stilllearning about you and your home. It must be very differentfrom how she was kept by the breeder. Many rabbits take timeand patience to settle down and feel secure and friendly. Itmay take her a little longer if the breeder didn't handle hermuch. The littertraining is also probably new and may takeher some time. She's busy marking all her new territory rightnow. That might change in time, but it is more likely toimprove after she is spayed. Keep training her as you are andshe will hopefully get the hint and at least keep her pee to thelitterbox.

Can she hop in and out of her cage by herself, or can you give her aramp or steps to make it easier? I put all four of my buns(two pairs) back in their cages by giving them their regular food andmaking a big show over it. They come running and are happy togo back in. They also love to be able to come out of theircages on their own- I find that picking them up in their cages makesthem feel threatened and act defensively. Same goes forpetting them in their cage- mine tend not to like it, but love to bepetted outside the cage.

As for treats, have you tried rolled oats? Or you could call the breeder and ask what she fed for treats.

 

[HoneyPot]

SunBun - You're doing a great job.It's a rare bunny that likes being picked up and cuddled, so don'tworry - it just takes patience. There are some in here whodon't ever pick up their bunnies, they just 'herd' them back to theircage at the end of the day.

I rarely pick Misty up to take her anywhere because she's a scrabblerand a twister and turner, and a scratcher.. she'll do whatever it takesto not get picked up.She comes to me and jumps into my lapwhen she's ready for cuddles or wants to be picked up, but if I try topick her up on my own terms, it's usually a fight.

Keep trying slowly - sit on the floor and let her come to you, don't goto her, let her investigate and get confortable. Don't try topick her up every time you play with her - it might take her longer tostart trusting you if she thinks you're going to try to pick her upevery time she comes near you.

Also, in terms of tempting food... I've yet to meet a bun that can resist cilantro.

Good Luck

________
Nadia

 

[SunBun]

Thank-you all for your help.



I got home last night and she hadn't spoiled the bottom of her cage allday, but this morning there was a puddling in one corner.That is progress.



Both rabbits are at the vets now, I took them in and the assistantlifted Suki out, no fuss, no scabbling, nothing. I said,"wow! how do you do that? I've never managed to pick either of them up,without completely freaking them out."

I showed her my scratched up hands, neck etc. Anyway, she isgoing to give me handling lessons when I return later. It's arelief because Suki will have her wound, so I really appreciate theirhelp.



As for the cages, sadly they can't get in and out on theirown. Suki is in a temporary cage which only opens from thetop by two lift up doors. It'suseless really, shewon't be staying in there. The cage Floppy has is muchbigger, has larger doors, but is on a stand. I got for them both toshare - eventually.



I'll try the treats too, she'll need cheering up, not sure whatcilantro is though? Maybe someone else in the UK has comeacross this or it's equivalent?

 

[SunBun]

Just found out - cilantro is coriander leaves orchinese parsley. Funny - they both had some of thatin thier breakfast bowls this morning.

 

[Tango]

hey Sun Bun...

i know... new bunny's are a mission to learn about! i'm recently a newbunny mom.. i found wiith mine taht the first step in litter trainingwas to confine it to the cage. if my bun wees or poops outside, he getsa very stern NO!. i found that showing him his mess and doing the wholeNO! at the sametimething also helped. He finallystopped going outside the cage. I found the litter box thing didn'twork.. my bun just kept moving it away and weeing on the floorunderneath where it had been. So now i put the litter box on a piece ofnewspaper which he prefers to pee on...

hope you're coming right!\



MAY

 

[SunBun]

Hi,

It's starting to. She was speyed on Friday and she has comethrough the op really well, and curiously she appears to have taken animmediate preference to her tray -which isodd becausealthough I have readthey improveafter spaying, Iwasn't expecting this! I keep coming down in the morning andexpecting to see pee all over the cage again, but there been none,except in her tray,since Saturday morning.

She is still extremely shy of me, I am not making a big thing of this anymore, I feel it best to just leave her be for now.

The best thing of all was the Bunny picking up lessons I had at theVets, It was remarkable - poor little Floppy had to be the ginnea-pigand we were picking him up putting down, picking him up again, turninghim over to practice checking the tummy for stitches, and he justflopped there with a "Heaven's sake, just get on with it, woman!" sortof expression on his face. I think he's a bit miffed that he can't runrings around me anymore when it's time to put him to bed.

I've had no trouble at all since picking either of them up, I am so much happier.

 

[Tango]

oh yay!

I'm So glad!! Good Luck!!

May

 

[Maiko]

Sounds like problems we were having with our bunny when we first got her.

i got peed on a few times, my couch had to be washed numerous time. Iwas playing with her one day, thinking she was having a good time, thenshe sprayed all over me. She'd also poo all over the place, there wasnothing we could do to stop it. Then we got her spayed and all theabove stopped. No more peeing and she only poos in her litter tray (itwas like they gave us a different bunny back from the vet).

Ours still doesn't like being picked up no matter how we hold her.

I suggest you lay on the floor when the bunnies are out and let themcome to you. We did this when our bunny was little and she'd come over,have a sniff, even climb up on our backs. Now she approaches us all thetime, and will sit for hours getting pats off us.

It does get easier. Trust me there were times i though of returning her to the pet shop but so glad now that i didn't.

Good luck

 

[BACI]

Sunbun- I had similar problems picking up myrabbit. I had to take her out of the cage for playtime as my rabbit'scage is on a table for me to be able to clean it and feed her. I have aback injury and that presently is my only option. I have a litter boxin the cage with hay in one corner of it and Delilah eats and goes tothe bathroom at the same time. This helped litter train her. However, Ifound out once they are trained or atleast for her that you have toalways put some hay in the corner. She always pees in one corner of thebox. I found also that if you don't completely clean the box(leave somefeces) in there then she knows to go there. When she was out playing westarted with one room with several boxes in it and when she pooped Ipicked it up with a kleenex and put that in her box with the stool. Theonly time I used a firm no was when she urinated on my bed and put herback in her cage. I think this only happened twice. Yelling at a timidrabbit seems to make it worse. As far as picking her up out of the cageI started using a small litterbox for holding her hay... she was losinga lot with the hay manger... So I would coax her with a treat into thehay box and gently placed my hand on her back while I lifted the box soshe would not fall. I use this method to get her out of her cage. Sheseemed more secure this way. In fact now when I go into her cage to tryand take the box she jumps in it. She still scrambles if I try to lifther any other way. I tried all the tricks... treats, holding her closeto my body etc. FYI- when I first brought her home she let me holdher... I think when they are first home they are too scared to doanything I am sure you did not ruin her. She is just comfortable enoughto tell you what she does not like now............. good luck

 

[p1rat3]

I am glad that you got a lesson in picking upyou bunny. I really helps to know this sort ofthing. I am going to quickly explain how I do it (just forpeople who might find this thread looking for answers).Please explain how your Vet did it if it is much different to this.

Picking up
- I normally put my hand down and let them sniff my hand, and/or give them a few strokes/pets.
- Then I put my hand over their head with the thumb and forefinger toeither side of the neck (no grabbing or squeezing!). This is a dominantbunny position and to them having your hand on their head or back oftheir neck means that you are 'the boss' at least for that moment.
- Then slowly slide you hand down under their chest as you also putyour hand under their bunny butt. If the rabbit is smallenough, or is a kicker, make sure to support the back feet as much aspossible. There is a potential for injury to both of you atthis point if the back feet start kicking!.
- Once you have the bunny 'into your arms' move your hand from undertheir chest and support them as should come naturally at thispoint. They might not like this for very long the first time,but I can walk all over the house carrying Clover now (se is like 2.5pounds though)

Trancing
- If you have trouble holding your rabbit or if you just want to showeven more dominance and earn some trust, you can try putting them ontheir back in your arms.
- To do this; you put your hand under their chest again and repositionyou other arm so that you are supporting their back feet, but haveenough room to rock the bunny back into that arm.
- Okay, now slowly, but unwaveringly tip your bunny back. Do not try toroll you bunny to one side or the other going into thisposition.
- One good way to get your bunny to relax in this (or any) position isto make a 'U' shape with one thumb and forefinger and stroke the sidesof their cheeks and head. This is where their jaw muscles areand my rabbits absolutely love it and when on their back it puts themright into a trance.
- When they come out of this position they will roll to one side or dothe 'cat landing on there feet' sort of roll. So you mightwant to trim their nails while they are on their back. Youcan tip them back forward again if they last long enough in thisposition for you to have to right them.

I hope that helps some people.

Jay

-----
Can I plug my bands website here? Moderators? Remove it if I am braking a rule.
http://www.RushDown.co.uk

 

[SunBun]

Hi,

It's interesting as this approach is a popular method, only it didn'twork for me at all. As soon as I moved my hand underneath,they would jump over it and run off. Consequently I would endup chasing them around the room/cage and freaking them out - bad news.

Some of you I know are going to squeal, but the vet explained anddemonstrated that the simplest way (and I sware neither of myrabbitsare at allbothered by this!) is to take somethe scruff on the back of their necks, it needn't beroughly,just firm (which does not hurt them at all) andsupporting them under their bottoms, lift them and bring them into yourbody just like the other way.

At first I was horrified, but as I said neither of my rabbits areinthe slightest be bothered by this, and as the deed is donequickly and decisively (especially from inaccessible places like thecage, they are up and away with me before they have a chance to beoverly scared.

I conceed, they don't particularly like be carted about, but they arenot nearly as stressed out as they were before, and if it gets themfrom the cage to the outside run, cage to their carrier etc etc,without a fuss. It works for me.

I haven't been scratched since either.

By the way, Suki and Floppy are now a bonded pair and they livetogether in the one cage. She is much better, still a bitnervous, but doesn't run and hide as much. The other day shesat on my lap (admittedly I forced the issue) but once she was there,she didn't feel like getting off for two hours! I got up acouple of times to go to the kitchen etc, but when I sat down again sheclimbed back on again. Maybe she just likes bright yellow fleesejackets!

 

[p1rat3]

Great news. Thanks for the update. I am glad they are bonded.

I only wish mine would hop back onto my lap like that!

Jay

 

[TrixieRabbit]

This was a great post! I am also having troublepicking up my bun...she isn't as bad as Suki, but she does twist andturn a bit until she realizes she isnt going anywhere...but I reallyhate chasing her to catch her. In fact, I just won't do it, even if itmeans being a bit late to work in the morning. I just let her escapeand then wait for her to come by me again, pet her so she hunkers down,then try again....
My biggest problem is trying to get her on her back so I can check tosee if she is really a she...guess I'll just have to wait untilSaturday when she goes for her check up. I just got her this pastWednesday (April 5th)

So glad to hear your picking-up problems have been solved!

~Denise