wet butt and light spot inside eye, Possible EC

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The best place to look for a veterinary diagnostic lab is at a vet school, and there aren't any in AK! Nearest state with a vet school is WA. That doesn't necessarily mean nobody in AK does the EC titer. Your vet should know who to send it to. It may take longer since it may have to go out-of-state.

PS Do you have insurance? It might be good, although a bit suspicious to get it...
 
Claire, I don't have bunny health insurance. It would be nice though! I can't stop thinking about poor Skyler. He got a new toy today and has had a very happy day with lots of cuddles and play time.

I hope we can get this figured out soon. I wonder how they send the blood for titers? Does it matter if the samples freeze? It's well below 0 here so I can't imagine the sample won't freeze.

I talked to my mom on the phone, she's the one who got my plane ticket with frequent flyer miles. She understands how much I love the bunnies and is going to look into changing my plane ticket so I'll only be in Washington for a few days and not go to Louisiana to see my dad at all.
 
I've just read all of this Shiloh. Obviously I can't add to Claire and Randy's knowledge but I just wanted to say good luck at the vets and I'll be thinking of you and little Skyler.

:hug:
 
tonyshuman wrote:
The best place to look for a veterinary diagnostic lab is at a vet school, and there aren't any in AK! Nearest state with a vet school is WA.
Since she is in AK, rather sending sending it across Canada to the US it would likely get sent to U of S vet college(University of Saskatchewan) assuming they do it.

:pray: that your boys get over what they have fast
 
I would assume that most vet schools have the ability to do the titer, so it probably will be U of S, although there may be some issues with shipping biologics across borders. They can probably put the sample in an insulated cooler to keep it from getting too cold; I'm not sure on the specifics, but yes the blood shouldn't be frozen.

Best of luck at the vet today. I understand that you don't want to be away from him for too long. If you can get vet insurance on such short notice, I would recommend it. The titer itself is about $100 here, and urinalysis is also expensive.
 
We just got home. The vet confirmed that it looks like EC to her. I decided to wait until she'd examined him before telling her about what you guys (Claire and Randy) thought it was, and before I could tell her, she told me she thought it was a parasite called E. cuniculi. You can imagine how upset I am about this, but I'm glad we have a good vet who knows what she's doing. All the tests she decided to do on him are the ones that Randy said she should do. We did a blood test on him today, but his bladder was empty so he has to go in again tomorrow. We decided not to do the titer for now because they're so darn expensive and she said the results wouldn't affect how she treats him. She wants to have a test done on him that will see if he has gallstones and measure something with his kidneys (sorry I forgot what it was called) but I think she said we'd do that in a couple weeks depending on the results of his blood tests. Sorry I don't remember exactly what she said, my head is spinning.

The good thing is that she said his kidneys felt fine when she palpated them. She looked in his eye and said it's a glaucomena uveitis or something, and that it looked like his retina was attached to the front of his eye or something. Sorry, I'll ask her tomorrow again what it was. His other eye looks clear so far. She said his vision is already reduced in the bad eye.

As far as peeing on himself goes, she thinks it's the beginning of paresis and that he's peeing on himself because he isn't sitting properly when he goes. The urine test will show if he has a UTI though.

On top of everything else, the poor guy's stomach was excessively full and his abdomen was firmer than it should be. I noticed that when I picked him up to go to the vet. She thinks it may be because yesterday I fed him a dried apricot half as well as a piece of pear and said it would be better not to feed him fruit or carrots anymore. Is this gut thing related to the EC or unrelated? The good thing is his poop is fine.

He was acting rather lethargic at the vet. Very still and tranced easily, his heartrate and breathing were normal. He's more active at home thankfully. It could be because his stomach hurts, or because he was stressed, or she said it could be because of the EC.

I think I covered everything. She's going to look into the Ponazuril and will get us started on Panacur. Randy, she read what you wrote (I printed it out) and agrees with everything who said.

Again, I'm glad I have this forum to help me, as well as a vet who I can trust to help guide Skyler and I through this illness. She said we will pretty much be working to support his quality of life now rather than trying to make him better, because of course that isn't possible. We should have a better idea of how long he will live when the results of his tests come back.

I'm so very sad about my boy and can't believe this is happening to him. No bunny deserves something like this, but he's so young and such a lovely little baby.
 
The kidney test she is referring to is the BUN (Blood Urea Nitrogen). A high value represents a decrease in the efficiency of the kidneys in removing toxins. I would discuss your husbandry protocols with your vet to find a diet that is as low in proteins as possible but still potent enough to maintain overall body conditioning. Hydration is essential....as I mentioned, learn how and when to do sub-q fluids. This will help support the kidneys.

EC rabbits are also quite prone to bacterial infections. These infections are due to the stress to the immune system caused by the EC. The immune system will see the EC as the primary threat and will make that the center of attack. That leaves those lurking opportunistic bacteria such as Pasteurella, Staph and Pseudomonas (the most common) to make appearances. These infections will not respond to old school drugs such as Sulfa or Baytril. And you will have to be aggressive in attacking these roving infections. Head tilt is a common issue blamed on EC....but it's not the EC, it's the compromised immune system allowing a bacterial infection in the ear.

And I know you won't miss this one....but old fashioned TLC means a lot. Yoda, one of our long term EC rabbits, lived over two years with active EC and in severe renal failure....and we were able to give him a high quality of life. And now we have an even more effective drug....and I personally know so much more about this affliction and how to respond to it.

Will be very interested in your next visit to see what the BUN levels are. And if your vet needs any info that she can't find...I will be happy to talk with her....but she sounds like she is on top of her game.

Randy
 
Oh Shiloh, I wish I could give you a hug! This is really sad. I know how special Skyler is to you, and I remember how he stood out from all his littermates!

I think he'll have a very good life with you. This vet sounds like just the type that will be able to help you a lot. He may be sick, but I know he has many happy days ahead of him. Please don't worry; there will be bad days and good days, but I think there will be many more good than bad and he will still be very happy to live with you.

There are lots of people here who have experience with this disease and other things that come with "special needs." Things like beddings to absorb urine, things to put on his skin to keep him comfy, and things you can do to help with mobility like massage. It's not going to be easy, but we are here for you. :bunnybutt::hug2:
 
Thanks for the information and encouragement, Randy and Claire. I would have been a complete mess at the vet office today if the EC diagnosis had come without me having any idea. I have a friend who doesn't have any bunnies, but wants to get one someday and is great with animals. She has offered to help me with him in any way and is going to help me give him fluids when he starts to need them.

Do you guys have any ideas for how I can spoil him as much as possible? I think my bunnies already have pretty good lives, but I want to pull out all the stops for him, especially while his mobility and eyesight are still decent. I'm going to sew him a Christmas stocking and stitch his name on it later this week. I know he doesn't specifically care about having a stocking, it's more for me I guess, but we will stuff it with toys for him. I want to create lots of memories with him and get lots of cute pictures of him.

My bunnies eventual deaths has always been at the front of my mind. I think and worry about it every day. I've had 2 previous bunnies die and did not handle their deaths well. My fiance actually didn't want me to get anymore rabbits ever after Tallulah died, but I convinced him that I love their lives more than I hate their deaths. If I had to pick between Skyler dying without warning let's say a year from now, and me knowing he was going to die young, I would probably pick the knowing. I certainly wish he didn't have to deteriorate like this beforehand, but at least this way I can start preparing for his death. I already have. Cinnabun died in my arms literally 2 minutes after I found him in his cage on morning, and he'd appeared healthy when I went to bed. Tallulah died one evening after we'd spent the afternoon at the vet. Both their deaths were pretty sudden, so it's really weird trying to get used to the idea of Skyler having something like this and that he won't be here in 5 years.

Sorry this was so long, I should probably post things like this in my bunny blog since they don't specifically have to do with his treatment.

What other bunnies on the forum have suffered from this? I read Pippi's thread, he didn't have the eye thing though.

Oh and something I forgot to mention in my previous post is that the vet said he doesn't have as much tone in his anal sphincter as she would have expected. He pooped on the couch tonight and the night before last, which he hasn't done since he was a baby.
 
I'm here if you need me I know the feelings that go through you. *hugs*
 
I'm really sorry about Skyler's diagnosis :(

He may be able to do well with this illness for a long time with proper treatment and I am sure that he will get that from you

I think a Christmas stocking is a nice idea for him ;)

:hug:
Maureen
 
It's not all gloom and doom. Caught early, this can be managed. I would urge your vet to get on the Ponazuril as quickly as possible. The Panacur has a problem in penetrating the blood/brain barrier.....and the brain is where the drugs need to be. Ponazuril does penetrate the barrier. I have had several rabbits with active EC. Yoda, who was one of the most spoiled rabbits in the world, lived a good life for a very long time after his infection initially presented. The keys to managing this condition are quickly bringing the parasite to a stalemate....the Ponazuril will help that. Lots of supportive care like you already do. Keeping a close watch for any secondary infections and treating them aggressively when they happen....and above all, support the renal system. The spores shed by the shedding protozoa causes pitting and scarring in the kidneys....keep that renal system flushed out. And remember you will see all sorts of horror stories and "treatments" for EC. I have seen them all.....stay with your vet and do clinically proven treatments. It will add to the quality and length of life. Let me know is I can help you or your vet with any treatment.

Randy
 
Little man and I are back from the vet again. He went to have urine drawn since his bladder was empty yesterday. We got the Panacur, he gets .3 mL once a day for 28 days. Randy, the vet said she's going to research the Ponazuril and then get back to me on Friday. She did a little research on it last night. I trust your judgment and want to use it, so if she's reluctant, perhaps you could e-mail her or something?

She said we should have the results of the urinalysis sometime between tomorrow and Friday and the blood work by Friday.

Rory peed a little bit outside his litter box again while we were gone. It's like he knows exactly what to do to worry me. I will be keeping an extra close eye on him in addition to Skyler.

Randy, your encouragement is really helpful. It's good to know he can still have a happy life. How much should the results of the blood test and urinalysis tell us?
 
Here's a review on Ponazuril, mostly what it has been used for and studied in. It appears to be safe in rabbits, and crosses the blood-brain barrier, but this paper doesn't say anything about its effectiveness in rabbits.

Ponazuril
 
The technical term for the eye issue is phacoclastic uveitis
 
There are a lot of articles recently published on EC in rabbits, although they focus mostly on diagnosis of the disease and I can't find any that mention ponazuril except for the one I posted the link to earlier. In addition, my school doesn't have subscriptions to all of the relevant journals so I can't read them all. I don't know if there have been systematic studies of ponazuril in bunnies with EC; however I did find info that treatment with the bendazoles is only about 50% effective, and I'm sure Randy can speak to the effectiveness of Ponazuril.
 

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