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Vet has never seen what my rabbit has

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cuteus

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I noticed the day before yesterday that my Houdini was standing oddly. When I looked at his rear end, I saw a large protrusion seemingly to come from the anal area. A milky discharge was present when I rinsed the area with warm water. I panicked and got an appointment yesterday with the vet. She thinks is a tumor and she has never seen something like that in her decades as a vet. It is not in the anus, as she was able to see it on the side of the mass. She just suggested to keep in him as comfortable as possible until, he dies I guess. Or i PTS. He is 12 yrs old and in pretty good health otherwise, with some arthritis. I am getting a second opinion anyway. Maybe take a picture and email to specialized hospitals. Maybe to decrease the size at least, with laser surgery. Anyone knows of super vets or hospitals? I am not ready to say bye yet. Also, I forgot to ask for antibiotics in case the milky discharge is pus. Can't call until tomorrow. Is the cecum known to produce a milky substance? I wonder if it is normal. I have a penicillin syringe in the fridge that is a few months old I was thinking I could use, since i did not use it because I was having a hard time injecting IM. I don't think it is toxic, just not as potent. Any thoughts?
 

Mehidk

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Was the person a rabbit savvy vet? Sounds like the first vet wasn't very knowledgeable. I agree to look for a second opinion. I looked around for vets in your area and maybe you can reach out to the rescue group and see who they go to as their recommended vet. When I adopted my rabbit, House Rabbit Society told me who they go to and I went with them based off their suggestion.

Link 1: http://www.therabbitresource.org/recommended-veterinarians.html
Link 2: Rabbit Savvy-Veterinarians - Long Island Rabbit Rescue Group
 

cuteus

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Was the person a rabbit savvy vet? Sounds like the first vet wasn't very knowledgeable. I agree to look for a second opinion. I looked around for vets in your area and maybe you can reach out to the rescue group and see who they go to as their recommended vet. When I adopted my rabbit, House Rabbit Society told me who they go to and I went with them based off their suggestion.

Link 1: http://www.therabbitresource.org/recommended-veterinarians.html
Link 2: Rabbit Savvy-Veterinarians - Long Island Rabbit Rescue Group
Thank you, yes all my vets are rabbit savvy so when she said she is never seen it, I felt it was bad or rare. A search online also seems to agree with the rareness. The HRS list is not updated well, I found this vet on my own. The other two vets, one is on the list. HRS depends on people telling them of the vet they consider savvy.
 
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Mehidk

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Thank you, yes all my vets are rabbit savvy so when she said she is never seen it, I felt it was bad or rare. A search online also seems to agree with the rareness. The HRS list is not updated well, I found this vet on my own. The other two vets, one is one the list. HRS depends on people telling them of the vet they consider savvy.
Thankfully the vet that was recommended to me is wonderful. The condition your rabbit has sounds so awful and I hope you find an answer soon. I'm so sorry your rabbit is going through this. :(
 

cuteus

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Thank you! I have 3 vets, because kids and pets seem to have health emergencies during holidays, weekends or nighttime. Sure enough, I was not able to access 2 of the 3 looking for appt. The 3rd it was pure luck as she had retired and has now come back for a while! Fortuitous!
 

JBun

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Did the vet not think it could be an abscess that ruptured? A milky substance is more than likely going to be pus from an infection. If you feel comfortable with posting a picture here, we might be able to give you some thoughts as to what it may be.

To give you an idea of what abscesses in rabbits can look like.
Medirabbit (skin abscesses in rabbits)
 

Black Otter's Mom

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My bunny Alarec has had rectal issues 3-4 years. He has a rectal prolapse which was not corrected after 2 surgeries. I just wash his bottom with baby shampoo and blow dry and lube x3 each day. He did have a growth on the end of prolapse. This was removed and sent for biopsy at Johns Hopkins. It came back as rectal polyp, exactly same as human. Maybe they could biopsy? I don't think a milky substance is pus, rabbit pus is very thick like paste. I hope your vet is someone very thorough who can look outside the box! My bunny is male and old man. He has always had huge dewlap that went away in a week when he acquired lymphoma. It vanished completely. My vet researched it and said he had never seen that before unless bun was wasting. Sometimes its harder to diagnose but a thorough vet will exhaust his resources and is cool enough to say he just does not know or hasnt seen before. Keep us posted!
 

cuteus

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Did the vet not think it could be an abscess that ruptured? A milky substance is more than likely going to be pus from an infection. If you feel comfortable with posting a picture here, we might be able to give you some thoughts as to what it may be.

To give you an idea of what abscesses in rabbits can look like.
Medirabbit (skin abscesses in rabbits)
I took a picture in hopes of finding some specialized hospital and vet that I can email it to. The vet that saw him felt it and stated it was solid. I don't believe abscesses are solid. So a tumor is more likely. Since bun is eating, drinking, urinating and a bit messy but from cecals, but defecating, the vet is on the conservative side of palliative care for a 12 yr old. Plus, he went from 1.8kg to 1.6 in wt. I will try and see the other vet and get another view. I was hoping someone knew of super vet or technology that is been used on rabbits with tumors.
 

cuteus

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My bunny Alarec has had rectal issues 3-4 years. He has a rectal prolapse which was not corrected after 2 surgeries. I just wash his bottom with baby shampoo and blow dry and lube x3 each day. He did have a growth on the end of prolapse. This was removed and sent for biopsy at Johns Hopkins. It came back as rectal polyp, exactly same as human. Maybe they could biopsy? I don't think a milky substance is pus, rabbit pus is very thick like paste. I hope your vet is someone very thorough who can look outside the box! My bunny is male and old man. He has always had huge dewlap that went away in a week when he acquired lymphoma. It vanished completely. My vet researched it and said he had never seen that before unless bun was wasting. Sometimes its harder to diagnose but a thorough vet will exhaust his resources and is cool enough to say he just does not know or hasnt seen before. Keep us posted!
Thank you, see my post to above helper. The vet does not feel stressing him with anesthesia is a good risk. What lube are you using? I get concerned with ingestion when grooming or eating cecals. He gets so upset when I clean him, so I keep it to once a day, if he does not do a good job at grooming. A biopsy at this stage will not give us many other options than what we have. I called the vet and she does not feel it is pus either. Buns are living longer and their bodies now show things they did not have time to develop in the past. We just want them to live forever or as long as the Guinness World of record bunny, who is 16!
 

Black Otter's Mom

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I get the store brand of KY Jelly. At that time I was in an arm/hand cast and needed to somehow still lube him up. They sold the jumbo size bottle with a pump so I could hit it with an elbow. It was cringe worthy horrifying embarrassment once I was in line. Seriously, it had terrible optics! I was beet red. But it works. Anything that hangs out from that area has to stay moist because it belongs on inside. I have to apply x3 each day.

No way.. congrats and much respect for uber senior bun, love it! I adore senior bunnies. They get so rickety and frail and disheveled which makes me love them more. I would love to do senior bunny daycare for people who work. You are a good bunny parent - hugs.
 

cuteus

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I get the store brand of KY Jelly. At that time I was in an arm/hand cast and needed to somehow still lube him up. They sold the jumbo size bottle with a pump so I could hit it with an elbow. It was cringe worthy horrifying embarrassment once I was in line. Seriously, it had terrible optics! I was beet red. But it works. Anything that hangs out from that area has to stay moist because it belongs on inside. I have to apply x3 each day.

No way.. congrats and much respect for uber senior bun, love it! I adore senior bunnies. They get so rickety and frail and disheveled which makes me love them more. I would love to do senior bunny daycare for people who work. You are a good bunny parent - hugs.
Great! Thanks, I got the store brand of ky. I guess since yours has the lube 3x /day for all these years, it is not harmful to ingest. You want to speak embarrassing? I have been getting in the bathtub with him on my lap and pour warm water with a pitcher. Today, as soon as I sat with him on his back, butt curled up, he was shaking a bit. He then surprised me by suddenly grooming the butt area. Almost like saying: "I'll do it"! I let him try and he kept at it, taking short breaks. After a while, he started squirming to get out, and I took advantage and finished the rest. Poor baby! I might do this a few times a day, curling him so he can groom! That was a new one on me! Feeding him his cecals, I have done before. TG I live alone!
 

cuteus

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I get the store brand of KY Jelly. At that time I was in an arm/hand cast and needed to somehow still lube him up. They sold the jumbo size bottle with a pump so I could hit it with an elbow. It was cringe worthy horrifying embarrassment once I was in line. Seriously, it had terrible optics! I was beet red. But it works. Anything that hangs out from that area has to stay moist because it belongs on inside. I have to apply x3 each day.

No way.. congrats and much respect for uber senior bun, love it! I adore senior bunnies. They get so rickety and frail and disheveled which makes me love them more. I would love to do senior bunny daycare for people who work. You are a good bunny parent - hugs.
The day we went for the second opinion, he had some bleed from the tumor area that scared the hell out of me. The vet put some Woundseal that is made for humans but she used it on a guinea pig and my bun. She thinks is two kinds of tumors, one of which is papilloma. Bunny was not in a good mood after the appointment and would only eat fresh greens, some hay, and critical care mix for almost two days. No pellets or drinking water. Gave him Metacam and anti gas, just in case. He did pass stools, so no severe stasis. Since then, he really hates the cleaning, shaking and trying to jump and I get scared he will injure his arthritic back. He is still readily eating Critical Care on his own, hay, pellets again and greens. The tumor area looks so painful but he is not loafing or grinding teeth. It is so weird to decide what to do. I have been searching for at home euthanasia vs. at vet's. I was surprised none of the vets recommended antibiotics, but I will call tomorrow and ask. Not sure if shots or oral. Did your bunny ever bleed? How in the world does he take the cleaning 3x? My boy sure is a carrier of some gene pool! Kind of wish he could have passed them on! Thank your for responding with your experience. BTW, how old is your boy?
 

Black Otter's Mom

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He absolutely did bleed. I would bet if they biopsy its a polyp. The term she used, I believe papilloma is a polyp. Sometimes it was dreadful, huge bleeding bulbous growth and then months later much less.

What I do his hold him in crook of my arm, hiney under stream of warm water in sink. Put dot of Johnson's baby shampoo there. Lightly lather with fingertips. Rinse just that area, pat dry then 5 minutes of warm blow dryer in morning. Put blob of KY there. Mid day, dab another KY, then before bed. Anything hanging out must stay moist. You get used to it and so does bun. If bun goes outside, make sure bottom not around rough items like cement. You just get used to it.

Surgery twice failed. Then rectum sutured and you have to work his poopies through the sutures. Not worth it and it fell out again in a day. Buns with rectal issues need care but even after several weeks its nothing. Its been years and he's grateful for his clean hiney and bunny bidet.

Antibiotics good, gets rid of infection and lets you transition into daily bottom grooming!
 

JBun

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I don't know if this might be what is going on, but the shope papilloma virus can cause rectal growths like that. If this is what your rabbit has, surgical removal is how it's usually treated.
 

cuteus

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He absolutely did bleed. I would bet if they biopsy its a polyp. The term she used, I believe papilloma is a polyp. Sometimes it was dreadful, huge bleeding bulbous growth and then months later much less.

What I do his hold him in crook of my arm, hiney under stream of warm water in sink. Put dot of Johnson's baby shampoo there. Lightly lather with fingertips. Rinse just that area, pat dry then 5 minutes of warm blow dryer in morning. Put blob of KY there. Mid day, dab another KY, then before bed. Anything hanging out must stay moist. You get used to it and so does bun. If bun goes outside, make sure bottom not around rough items like cement. You just get used to it.

Surgery twice failed. Then rectum sutured and you have to work his poopies through the sutures. Not worth it and it fell out again in a day. Buns with rectal issues need care but even after several weeks its nothing. Its been years and he's grateful for his clean hiney and bunny bidet.

Antibiotics good, gets rid of infection and lets you transition into daily bottom grooming!
I so appreciate your input in this! I get the impression that vets are not used to seen bun parents taking on that type of caregiving for any amount of time. They are used to seeing euthanasia. Plus, age seems to be the determinant in the vets' opinion. They don't see a benefit in extending this type of care for seniors. I guess they need to hear more about what we are doing so that the information gets added to a large database. HRS tried to do just that. Their website had a page where you would enter medical information for your bunny in hopes that it could be a medical database for veterinarians and bunnies' caregivers. It does not seem to have worked as they hoped. So, we turn to forums like these. I do put him in the crook of my arm but he suddenly fights to get off, almost falling. I already had a bunny with paralysis and don't want another! If I had my daughter with me, it would be easier. I might go for another opinion, to a clinic with specialties like geriatric care and oncology. Also, one with laser surgery since that would mean less bleeding and faster recovery, plus less time in anesthesia. Some people would think it is a waste of money given his age. How much are we willing to pay for another year of company, at most? The papilloma sometimes goes away on its own since the vets think of it as more like a wart. I do see two types of tissue, one wart like and the other like a polyp or tumor, sometimes showing little bubbles of tissue.
BTW, I recently remembered an "herb" that is supposed to be a good treatment for tissues with mucosal lining, such as trachea, esophagus, intestines, etc. Slippery Elm. I used it when my daughter got bronchitis as a baby.
In the powder form, you can add warm water to form a gel and apply that to his tumor/rectum instead of ky. It is not toxic if they lick it. A little of powder makes gel quickly. I have been using that, alternatively with ky. Maybe it can help heal some. Would be nice if I knew of any vet researching bunnies diseases and willing to investigate my boy's condition, if I could donate his body to rabbit science. Thanks again!
 

cuteus

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I don't know if this might be what is going on, but the shope papilloma virus can cause rectal growths like that. If this is what your rabbit has, surgical removal is how it's usually treated.
Thank you, yes surgery seems to be the standard. But, my boy is 12, so is not something vets want to touch and maybe make worse.
 

Black Otter's Mom

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After rectal surgery they have to loosely suture rectum shut. Which leaves the bun unable to poopie through that so you have to pick them out. I will do anything for my boy but I cannot imagine how painful it was for him because any manipulation pulls on the sutures. I sure hope he turns out ok! Sending bunny love from Alarec to your boy.
 

Crystl.marshl

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I noticed the day before yesterday that my Houdini was standing oddly. When I looked at his rear end, I saw a large protrusion seemingly to come from the anal area. A milky discharge was present when I rinsed the area with warm water. I panicked and got an appointment yesterday with the vet. She thinks is a tumor and she has never seen something like that in her decades as a vet. It is not in the anus, as she was able to see it on the side of the mass. She just suggested to keep in him as comfortable as possible until, he dies I guess. Or i PTS. He is 12 yrs old and in pretty good health otherwise, with some arthritis. I am getting a second opinion anyway. Maybe take a picture and email to specialized hospitals. Maybe to decrease the size at least, with laser surgery. Anyone knows of super vets or hospitals? I am not ready to say bye yet. Also, I forgot to ask for antibiotics in case the milky discharge is pus. Can't call until tomorrow. Is the cecum known to produce a milky substance? I wonder if it is normal. I have a penicillin syringe in the fridge that is a few months old I was thinking I could use, since i did not use it because I was having a hard time injecting IM. I don't think it is toxic, just not as potent. Any thoughts?
You can search and see if there are any exotic animal vets in your area. They would have more knowledge about rabbits.
 

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