Velvet Lions? Really??

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That's weird. Why would you put a mane on a rex? Isn't the whole point of a rex the softness of the hair being all the same length? I agree it's misleading not to say that lionheads aren't recognised.

Honestly it sounds a lot like your other post, someone stupid mixing breeds and trying to pass them off as something new and special. In dogs it is a mutt (nothing wrong with a mutt) and for the rabbits it's a mix. You can't have a pure bread mix.

Sorry, I am so grumpy today. A clear fluid diet seems to wash away my mouth filter :)
 
You would think that they would try to get the Lionheads approved before adding them to something else...geez
 
CCWelch wrote:
You would think that they would try to get the Lionheads approved before adding them to something else...geez
Click to expand...

Yep, you would think.

Sorry wouldn't buy one if the Good Lord came down and told me I had to.

If I wanted a Rex I'd buy a Rex. Actually it just looks like a Rex with a bushy head. lol

Gee, looks like the same thing that happened to the Silver Fox. People wanted meaty and threw everything but the kitchen sink into that breed. All for money. Just like this guy.

Thankfully there are people out here that care what the Lion Head should look like.

K :)


 
I was shaking my head, too. And I couldn't figure out why you'd take a very short, very dense coat (that feels like velvet) and breed it with a long, silky coat.

I guess you can make a mix, and create a breed. The Californian was a mix of Hims and Chins that were then bred to NZs. But that was for a specific purpose. Not sure where the moron is going with the two different fur types. LOL
 
Anyone who buys a bunny from this breeder (and I use that term lightly) deserves exactly what they get. Assuming means nothing.

The only thing I feel for is the bunnies.

We don't need mad scientists of the rabbit world. Amazing what happens when the economy tanks. People say "NEW AND UNIQUE" and this is the way they define their accidents, experiments and mistakes.

Oh well, like I said, takes all kinds to make a world, and don't ever be surprised.

K :)
 
The site says the 'breed' began to be developed in 2006, so at least 5 years ago, so they aren't just mistakes.

And I'll also give them props for saying about one of the rabbits they're offering, that he's not that friendly. Most sellers would try to hide that fact.

So, no thanks, but who knows?
 
Ruki wrote:
so weird! I found this website that has info on them and lots of pics...
http://www.foxawayrabbits.com/velvetlionshome.html
Click to expand...

If you look at the first post, that's the same site posted above.



And not an accident per the site,Lake. That's really scary. Since 2006 they have been developing this. And it's the first time it comes up? I've read about Lion Heads in many, many publications.

Sorry a rex is a rex and a Lion Head is a lion head (single or double) and to seea bunny with lovely soft shortfur with aMane that's easier to manage,No tangles. LOLEasy to groom because it's not wool. So if you want something easier to groom than a Lion Headthat haswool, why not get a Rex. Geez.



K:)
 
LakeCondo wrote:
I'm sure that's exactly what people said when other breeds were developed, Kar
Click to expand...

Sure, but if you want an "easy to clean" rabbit, get a rex. Oh that's right, it's easy.

It's just like the Altrex rabbit, a commercial bunny that gets fat fast. Doesn't do good as a Mother, smaller litters, but hey those bunnies grow fast.

BTW, Kar? lol South Philly saying. Do they shorten everyone's name in Chicago too?

K:)
 
Could someone post a photo of one from the site? My router isn't working and I can't access some sites. They sound incredible!
 
pamnock wrote:
Could someone post a photo of one from the site? My router isn't working and I can't access some sites. They sound incredible!
Click to expand...

http://www.foxawayrabbits.com/velvetlionsherd.html

Hope this helps.

Shame they are taking the wool out of the breed so it's easy and neat. Not much of a lionhead look though. More like a rex with a little hair between their ears.

But then again, I'm not a judge. Just someone who's been studying very intensely the Lionhead breed and it's struggle with ARBA status.

K:)
 
pamnock wrote:
Could someone post a photo of one from the site? My router isn't working and I can't access some sites. They sound incredible!
Click to expand...

Here Pam. This has, by my opinion, the nicest mane of any. The rest, for the most part, are SM and just sort of look fuzzy.
Sorry about the size, it's what they have it set to and I don't feel like downloading, editing, and reuploading right now.

(EDIT: Okay, so that picture was over 2000 x 1500... Got unlazy and fixed it.)
142bxpi.jpg


And I just want to put a note out there... I feel rather upset with those of you that say this is just 'experimenting'. Let people breed for what they want to breed for, so long as they are doing it responibly.

On their about velvet lions page, they clearly state that this is not an arba recognized breed. (They do, however, say that they hope it will one day be... This frankly, is likely a false hope. Lionheads will pass their COD long before these do, and they won't have the "2 difference" rule on their side.)

Would I personally have them? No. I don't generally like lionanythings. (However, I saw ONE lionlop that I would have taken, had it been in the USA) But should people be allowed to breed for what they want to? Yes. Elsewise it opens the door to all those issues surrounding even the recognized breed breeders. If the authorities take away the right to breed "velvet lions" then whats to say that they won't take away my right to have Ermine Netherlands, or Tort Otters? Those are just as unshowable as those rexed lionheads are.

And on another note, purebred simply means that they reproduce the qualities when bred to like kind, through 3 generations. Otherwise, Netherland Dwarfs wouldn't be purebred. They'd still be a mutt cross of a dutch and a wild agouti rabbit. Lionheads would simple be a mutt cross of netherlands, and (what? jerseys? I haven't paid much attention).

Not to mention all the breeds that would be dead right now without outcrossing. I'm a firm believer that you simply HAVE to get the hybrid vigor in there at some point. Elsewise the gene pool becomes too small and you run into issues. That's why I see no harm in breeding, say, new zealands to cinnamons. How often do you see a cinnamon that doesn't look like some scary.. I'm not even sure.

Heck, I, myself, plan on breeding american sables to silver martens to create more of the sable variety of silver marten. Why? Because I've only ever seen two, and that's in /photos/... And they.. were not even close to the type of the blacks. So, why not recreate them? Obviously there was a way the shaded gene got in there in the first place... It certainly didn't just 'mutate' from blacks or blues. :)

Annnnd Megan's done ranting now, sorry.
 
You have the right to do whatever you want to do. And no one is trying to stop you, but you need to step back and see the heartache and sweat and tears that is going into getting the Lionhead recognized. And when we see or hear someone playing with the Lionhead gene, which IS the basis of a Lionhead and how fragile it is, it gets people a little upset. The single manes are struggling to keep their mane while the DM are being washed out by other breeds such as Rexes and Lops. And changing the complete look of what was originally set out to show.

It's nothing against you, but you don't understand how hard it has been for others to bring this breed to light. I'm totally new to this so I see it differently than what others see who have been into it for years. And not every breeder is responsible like you. Playing with different breeds to enhance one or bring forth one that you are looking to create IS a responsibility and if not done correctly will in time hurt others when these rabbits find their way into other rabbitries or into hands of someone new like me.

That's why I'm am thoroughly researching this breed I want to breed. I am thoroughly researching the background of the stock I purchase. And I have spoken to many lionhead breeders and heard their stories. It's a very fragile gene and need to be protected and strengthened.

Again I repeat, never an attack on anyone. It's something that needs to be put out there so people know what's being created with the DM lionhead so that this genetic mutation is not lost or diluted.

Wishing you luck in your future endeavors with Ermine and Otters.

K :)
 
Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote:
pamnock wrote:
Could someone post a photo of one from the site? My router isn't working and I can't access some sites. They sound incredible!
Click to expand...

Here Pam. This has, by my opinion, the nicest mane of any. The rest, for the most part, are SM and just sort of look fuzzy.
Sorry about the size, it's what they have it set to and I don't feel like downloading, editing, and reuploading right now.

(EDIT: Okay, so that picture was over 2000 x 1500... Got unlazy and fixed it.)
142bxpi.jpg


And I just want to put a note out there... I feel rather upset with those of you that say this is just 'experimenting'. Let people breed for what they want to breed for, so long as they are doing it responibly.

On their about velvet lions page, they clearly state that this is not an arba recognized breed. (They do, however, say that they hope it will one day be... This frankly, is likely a false hope. Lionheads will pass their COD long before these do, and they won't have the "2 difference" rule on their side.)

Would I personally have them? No. I don't generally like lionanythings. (However, I saw ONE lionlop that I would have taken, had it been in the USA) But should people be allowed to breed for what they want to? Yes. Elsewise it opens the door to all those issues surrounding even the recognized breed breeders. If the authorities take away the right to breed "velvet lions" then whats to say that they won't take away my right to have Ermine Netherlands, or Tort Otters? Those are just as unshowable as those rexed lionheads are.

And on another note, purebred simply means that they reproduce the qualities when bred to like kind, through 3 generations. Otherwise, Netherland Dwarfs wouldn't be purebred. They'd still be a mutt cross of a dutch and a wild agouti rabbit. Lionheads would simple be a mutt cross of netherlands, and (what? jerseys? I haven't paid much attention).

Not to mention all the breeds that would be dead right now without outcrossing. I'm a firm believer that you simply HAVE to get the hybrid vigor in there at some point. Elsewise the gene pool becomes too small and you run into issues. That's why I see no harm in breeding, say, new zealands to cinnamons. How often do you see a cinnamon that doesn't look like some scary.. I'm not even sure.

Heck, I, myself, plan on breeding american sables to silver martens to create more of the sable variety of silver marten. Why? Because I've only ever seen two, and that's in /photos/... And they.. were not even close to the type of the blacks. So, why not recreate them? Obviously there was a way the shaded gene got in there in the first place... It certainly didn't just 'mutate' from blacks or blues. :)

Annnnd Megan's done ranting now, sorry.
Click to expand...


I think you have a lot of valid points. My opinion is that due to the enormity of irresponsible breeders (I myself had an accidental litter, so I perpetuated the issue), we are all sort of...defensive when it comes to someone throwing breeds together.

I personally think it would be neat to mish mash breeds to see what's produced, but as others said above - responsibly. Provide homes, love, care, and don't outnumber yourself so your others suffer.

And spay/neuter those creations! You never know if they will swoop into a breeding program and muck up a line that's been hard at work.

I'm with you Megan...to each their own, as long as the brain AND heart are being used, not the need for profit.
 
There are a lot of breeds that were crossed, to get what they are now.

The Californian was created by crossing the Himalayan with the standard Chin...and those babies then crossed with New Zealands. Purpose: Great meat animal with a good pelt.

French Lops were created by crossing English Lops and Flemish Giants. Purpose: creating a meat rabbit.

Holland Lops were created by crossing French Lops with Netherland Dwarf. I guess the purpose was a small pet?

All breeds are like this. They started somewhere. However, I don't understand the purpose of breeding two separate hair coats together, losing the distinction of both breeds in the process.
 
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