Summer's Ongoing Saga RIP

[Flashy]

Summer is my bun who most likely has cancer, so please excuse me if this is just me being over careful.

She had a tumour removed back in January. We opted not to biopsy, but the vet said it looked like a melanoma. the blood tests also showed up that she has a degree of liver failure, which my vet suspects was the cancer spreading.

Summer is an old lady, but how old? We don't know because I've only had her here since August. She was disgustingly obese when she arrived, and after a horrific spay, lost a lot of weight in a short amount of time (she arrived 3kg, and within a week of her spay she had gone down to 2.3kg). Summer choked back in October, but with the right immediate help made a full recovery.

Since January we have struggled to keep the weight on her, but since she has been on Nutrical she has actually put on weight, and seems to be doing well. We also suspect she has arthritis in her hips although this only seems to trouble her when held in a certain position.

She was Panacured a couple of weeks ago, and also had a tapeworm back in November.

Currently she just has nightly Nutrical.

That's the history.

Ok, so I have nothing very concrete to go on.

She has looked for a while like her breathing has not been great, but today when I was cutting her nails it looked like a huge effort. When I put her back down she seemed to take a short while to recover and then pottered off

I looked at her gums and it was a bit hard to tell because she has her blue skin pigment around the muzzle bit, but the bottom looks exactly like the others buns I checked, so I can only presume she is getting enough oxygen.

I also looked at her eyes. I checked other buns eyes and hers seem very pale compared to that. In some parts they looked purple.

Also, on both eye lids, but in different places she had small yellow lumps (like really small, pin head size, and sort of look like solid puss?). They were round the rim, but in one eye there were two more towards the nose, and on the other eye there was a smaller one towards the ear end. None of them look sore, there is no redness. Just yellow lumps. Any ideas on what these might be? Also, could the paleness in the eyes by anaemia?

She is acting absolutely fine. Eating like a pig. She is very energetic and has been leaping around, but only in short bursts. She is drinking a lot, but I think that is because I have cut down on the pellets, and she was always a bun who drank whenever she was hungry, due to this she is also doing mega wees (back in January her kidneys were fine, so I would presume they are still now, although that's not necessarily the case).

I think something is not sitting right with me, for her. She's a special girl and I just want to do what's right by her. So I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts at all on the eyes and breathing. Thanks in advance guys.

 

[tonyshuman]

Well, I cannot find anything about anemia and it causing eyes to become pale. It does cause the whites of the eyes to turn yellow, mostly due to declining liver function. It also causes rapid shallow breathing and rapid heart rate.

I don't know what these yellow lumps are. Could they be mucus in the eye that has dried around the edges (like "sleep" or "eye boogers")?

I also found that anemia makes the body weak and tired, which seems to be the opposite of what she's doing. Also, you might have noticed irregularities in the nails when you were cutting them.

I did find this info on tularemia, which causes yellow bumps around the eye and is a bacterial infection that affects rabbits. It does cause redness of the eye though. http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/ulceroglandular+tularemia

Also look at xanthelasma on this page: http://www.allaboutvision.com/resources/glossary-3.htm

So, I don't really know what's going on here.

 

[Flashy]

Thanks for the links. We don't have ticks over here, and I haven't seen any flies around really (just a load of wasps and bees recently), so I'm not sure its that tularemia.

It looks like it's under skin, and like if I scratched it I could get it out, but obviously that's probably not the best thing to do. It's definitely not sleep.

That's funny you mentioned the xanthelasma thing, my mum looked at it earlier and said 'could it be cholesteral'.

What could give a bunny high cholesteral?

Having googled imaged both those terms it doesn't look like xanthelasma at all and the tularemia gave no clues (although the pictures of people with it looked a bit gruesome :|).

I want to try and take a picture of it, but my camera broke and my mum's is not great, so whilst I'll give it a go, it's not going to be great (and it will have to wait until tomorrow).

Thanks for the reply It's hard to reply when you don't really know but I still appreciate it, thanks.

 

[Maureen Las]

Older people get fatty deposits around the eyes as they age (related to cholestrol) so possibly the bumps are something similar. The purplish color to the eyes could be congestion in the blood vessels near her eye :expressionless??

if she truly has melanoma I would think that it would be advancing and causing changes to her body.

All of this could be related to cancer.

The labored breathing could be heart involvement and that is something you may want to have a vet examine; also it probably wouldn't hurt to get a blood panel if you took her in as that will reveal alot about her body in general.

it sounds like you want to keep her happy and comfy despite her problems and age but not do a lot of extreme intervention ; which is whatI would also do .

 

[Flashy]

Thanks for the response angie. I am going to get her checked out, and show the vet her eye and ask him to check her breathing, both heart and lungs. I don't think there is a huge emergency in it, but I shall book the appointment for as soon as I can.

angieluv wrote:

it sounds like you want to keep her happy and comfy despite her problems and age but not do a lot of extreme intervention ; which is whatI would also do .

You're very right about that. She was a foster that, when the RSPCA found out she had a tumour, they offered her to me. I want her to live out her days here, happy. I will do whatever is in her best interests, exactly as we did with Sweep who had a tumour last year. I know that if I do what is best for her at any given time then I can't go wrong and won't feel any guilt for whatever may happen (I carry a lot of guilt for losing previous buns down to my error) and she will have the closest to perfect ending. Far better for it to all happen with me than for her to have been PTS months ago after having been homeless at the RSPCA.

After a whole list of episodes I truly believe that Summer was meant to come to me to die, and as long as whatever time she has here is happy, then I've done whatever job it was that fate/destiny had in store for me in terms of her.

 

[Flashy]

I've got an appointment for her tonight. I'll update when we get back

 

[mouse_chalk]

I don't have any suggestions or advice I'm afraid but I just wanted to wish you good luck at the vets, I'll be thinking of you and Summer. And she's very lucky to have ended up with you taking care of her :hug:

 

[Maureen Las]

Flashy wrote:

Thanks for the response angie. I am going to get her checked out, and show the vet her eye and ask him to check her breathing, both heart and lungs. I don't think there is a huge emergency in it, but I shall book the appointment for as soon as I can.

angieluv wrote:

it sounds like you want to keep her happy and comfy despite her problems and age but not do a lot of extreme intervention ; which is whatI would also do .

You're very right about that. She was a foster that, when the RSPCA found out she had a tumour, they offered her to me. I want her to live out her days here, happy. I will do whatever is in her best interests, exactly as we did with Sweep who had a tumour last year. I know that if I do what is best for her at any given time then I can't go wrong and won't feel any guilt for whatever may happen (I carry a lot of guilt for losing previous buns down to my error) and she will have the closest to perfect ending. Far better for it to all happen with me than for her to have been PTS months ago after having been homeless at the RSPCA.

After a whole list of episodes I truly believe that Summer was meant to come to me to die, and as long as whatever time she has here is happy, then I've done whatever job it was that fate/destiny had in store for me in terms of her.

Tracy
You are really a great person !!!

 

[Flashy]

There's no easy way to put this, but Summer is 'on the way out'.

My vet thinks that all the signs point to the cancer having metastasized (or however you spell it) to her lungs. He agrees that her breathing is not great and that there is abdominal effort. There are no crackles or wheezes so there is no indication of infection or fluid, so antibiotics nor diuretics won't help.

Her heart sounds good, but she has jaundice.

So we wait. We reassess every day. We give her anything in the world she wants. We make her happy. And then we wait some more.

This is exactly what we did with Sweep, and that was this time last year.

I'm gutted, really actually devastated, but at least I get the chance to make her happy and know that she will end this in the right way.

We did discuss blood tests, x-rays, etc, but we agreed that whilst it may tell us more, there is not much we can do with that info, and it would add stress and weaken her to put her under a GA (she definitely could not be done awake).

The lumps on her eyes are not anything to be concerned about now. He thinks they are down to old age, and we only need to do something if her eyes become sore or there seem to be any other eye problems like discharge, etc.

You know what? Today has sucked. Doctors, dentist, vets. To have those all on one day and have a trauma/bad news at each makes for a really shocking day. I can't wait for tomorrow.

 

[Maureen Las]

I'm really sorry that you have had so much bad news Tracy.
You're right ; it does suck ..

I'm sorry that you have to go through so much :cry1:

My rabbit, Babette, was getting worse at this time last year ( died in June) and I know what it's like to see the bun and love her and know it's hopeless.
the only thing that I can say is that Summer is very lucky to be with someone who loves her so much and has so much respect for her life and feelings :cry2
'Hugs"

Maureen

 

[Flashy]

Thanks (I always want to call you angie, and normally do, even though I know your name is Maureen )

Today is probably the worst day in terms of Summer becuase after today we can make her life more fun, and I'll have already done my grieving and when it is time for her to go, it will be the right time.

I think having gone through almost exactly the same thing with Sweep, it makes it easier. I had panic attacks and nightmares with Sweep because I was so scared of getting it wrong, but in the end, I got it right and I have to trust that I know Summer well enough to get it right for her too.

It's very bittersweet when someone says they have gone through something similar. It's bitter because you know that its a nightmare for someone to go through, and you wouldn't wish it on any slave or bunny, but its 'sweet' because it means that people can relate to the horrors and stress and mixed emotions that you are going through.

My family are not adverse to spoiling Summer and co, which is great. I bet Roger and Tilly (her bond mates) are about to balloon in size, lol.

 

[tonyshuman]

I'm so sorry that you have to go through this. I know you will provide her with the best hospice care a bunny could have and she will be able to live out her days with happiness, love, and comfort. Every day is a blessing and you have such a good connection with your bunnies that I know you will not let her suffer unnecessarily when the time comes. Huge hugs, and keep us updated on spoiling your little girl!

 

[Maureen Las]

I can honestily say that Babette's decline in 2007-2008 gave me a sitautional depression. Every morning I would wake up and when I would think of her my stomach would tense up.
The vets here in La crosse (basically rural-clollege town) would not listen to my pleas for stronger antibiotics for her respiratory condition and she would go into these terrible states of labored breathing. One vet said that he would give me zithromax afterI tried 6 weeks of baytril. Of course all her symptoms came back worse while being on the baytril so thenI got the zithromax... but he gave me too low a dose and wouldn't increase it. I was being driven crazy by the knowledge thatI was making her resistant to zithromax by givng her too low a dosage.

I did pm Randy who coached me on what to next. During the process I learned how to do bicillin myself but it was a painful process as I had to try to find a way to get syringes and needles
The bicillin worked right away and was the cure for the respiratory problem so I have always felt good that I worked on doing it myself
Babette's spinal arthritis declined also that year and she started to fall on her side . When I would leave the house I would be afraid that she would fall and I would be gone .
She was with Beau and through all this seemed oblivious to her bad situation. she just loved the meals I would fix for her and still seemed to enjoy life.


When I did decide to have her PTS June 2008 she had developed a pressure sore on the side that she fell on. She was older also and I did not feel right keeping her going like that.

This is so sad .....
When I took her to the vet to have her PTS I took a big piece of banana with me. When the vet gave her the injection I immediately gave her the banana which she ate voraciously until she fell asleep.


If you feel anything like I did with Babette; it is very sad and hard.:cry1:


I like being called either Angie( my dog) or Maureen

Ididn't use my own name when I joined RO becauseI was complaining about the shelter all the time and was afraid that someone would recognize that person as the small animal volunteer, Maureen

here is a picture of Babette (orange and white) and Beauin her last months

 

[mouse_chalk]

I'm so sorry it wasn't better news at the vets

Summer is in the best place she could be- with you looking out for her and her best interests so unselfishly. We all know that she will be very much loved and well taken care of during the end of her life. I'm sorry I don't know what else to say but I'm thinking of you :hug:

 

[Flashy]

Aw, what an absolutely gorgeous picture!

I really hear how distressing that situation was for you. She was very lucky that she had an owner who was willing to fight, because all too many will just accept what the vet says as read, which obviously was not what she needed. I love the image of you giving her the banana. What a beautiful way to go. It's just so very hard seeing someone you love, decline, and knowing you can't do anything to help them other than make them happy.

Not sure if you know much about Sweep but early April last year he developed a rather large lump in his side. He was an old man and we decided that we wouldn't put him through anything too invasive because I didn't want him to die after having a rough time (had he been two or more years younger, then we would have given it a shot, but at 9, I didn't think it was right for him).

Over the following weeks we all (everyone in my house) spoilt him rotten. For those 6 weeks my world revolved around him, as did everyone, and everybun elses.

He did really well, and on the day I decided enough was enough he was still very sparky, but completely incontinent-from the looks of it, his kidneys had packed up.

I normally use carry cases to take the buns to the vets, but I didn't, I carried him and cuddled him all the way there. Then, on the vets table I cuddled him as best I could and stroked and spoke to him. He was very peaceful as he went.

I spent those 6 weeks of his illness documenting it all and eventually put together Sweeps' Celebration which is here [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJb_4Fu7y7U&feature=channel_page[/ame] They were a trialling six weeks, but for the first time in a long time I felt I had done the right thing, I felt no guilt for what had happened, I knew I had done the best thing for him. That brought a lot of peace. Yes, I miss him, even now, a year on, but I miss him with a smile.

I want to do something similar for my girlie. I want to miss her with a smile. I want to be able to celebrate the time she had with me.

I do think that all the bunnies who end up in a terminal situation and are with an owner who does what is best for them are so SO lucky. I just think of all those other buns who don't get that chance, and just die alone in one way or another. It's tragic what happens to our bunnies, but really, they are so very lucky to be in a loving home when these tragic things happen.

 

[PepnFluff]

Awh hugs, like big bear hugs. I honestly don't know what to say, i totally suck in these situations. Summer is in the best hands she can be in and we all know her final time shared with you she'll be spoiled rotten I can relate with how it feels though, I always knew Pepe was going to go and I tried so hard to prepare myself but it still takes you by surprise and it still hurts just as much.
Give her some kisses from me


Thinking, Jaundice, is it the same/simillar as it is to babies? I have no idea how much pain or even if it does cause her pain. But, could it be treated the same as babies? My friends bub had it and she was put on billi lights, not even sure if thats how you treat it in rabbits but just a thought.

 

[JadeIcing]

I have not posted much because my guys demanded attention. As you know treating head-tilt is demanding.

I think you have done everything you can and more. You have given her the chance to live out her life with love, respect, dignity and friends. She could not have better than that. ray::hug:

 

[Maureen Las]

I just watched Sweep's video; you did a great job of letting the world know what his personality was like. What a great video!!!! What a great bun!



I didn't know Sweep's story when he was sick probably because I wasn't on RO a lot last year and wasn't reading many threads.


Summer is a lucky bun to get a wonderful life packed into a short time

you have a positive way of looking at things that could be just sad .....

"hugs"
Angie/Maureen

 

[Maureen Las]

PepnFluff wrote:

Awh hugs, like big bear hugs. I honestly don't know what to say, i totally suck in these situations. Summer is in the best hands she can be in and we all know her final time shared with you she'll be spoiled rotten I can relate with how it feels though, I always knew Pepe was going to go and I tried so hard to prepare myself but it still takes you by surprise and it still hurts just as much.
Give her some kisses from me


Thinking, Jaundice, is it the same/simillar as it is to babies? I have no idea how much pain or even if it does cause her pain. But, could it be treated the same as babies? My friends bub had it and she was put on billi lights, not even sure if thats how you treat it in rabbits but just a thought.

The jaundice in Summer is probably caused by the cancer spreading to the liver and surrounding areas...
jaundice in a newborn is fairly common and is treatable with the bilirubin lights but isn't the same thing as Summer has

 

[Flashy]

Thanks guys

Yup, unfortunately her jaundice is brought on by the liver failure she is struggling with. That showed up in her January blood tests so we already knew that would be a factor at some point.

I woke up this morning and I feel like I'm on a mission. All the other bad news I got yesterday has paled into non-existance. I plan to do similar tributes for Summer, as I did for Sweep. I will do everything I can to make this the happiest time. I know I've said that a lot but it is some completely important to me.

Her breathing seems to be worse after her eating. Not sure if that's because her tummy is full and the abdominal aspect of her breathing is compromised by that, or if she gets so excited she forgets to breathe and so then has to compensate for that after.

They are inside this morning, having a run and a play and letting me any everyone else spoilt them.

Can I change the title of this thread? I have the ability because I'm a VIP, but didn't know if I was allowed?