snuffles question

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betsy

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Feb 17, 2009
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Location
, Wisconsin, USA
I run an animal rescue and have my own rabbits as well as other pets.. this little girl was sitting in a shelter yesterday matted and sick.. so of course i had to get her out, it was a kill shelter. So home she came. she never has been around my other buns. She went to the vet first thing this morning and has the snuffles.. HUGE abbsess on her neck.. no runny eyes or nose.. I am new to all of the rabbit stuff.. so my question is.. once the little one is healthy and cleared by the vet is she always contagious or can she be integrated into the group i have.. ? Thanks for the help

Betsy
 
If she is treated aggressively for her her abscess and her other infections she should be able to be around the other rabbits.

What is the treatment protocol; how does the vet plan to treat the abscess?, what are the prescribed medications. ?
Was a culture and sensitivity done?

What are all of her symptoms?

Is she eating and pooping ?

It was kind and compassionate of you to take her :)
 
she is on baytril twice a day.. she is eating and pooping and peeing.. darn thing peed all over my pillow last night..lol.. we named her Eva. she came from what sounds like a bad situation. I have had her 24 hours now.. but her surrender card at the shelter says "can't keep cage clean" for reason to give her up. she is all of 2 pounds, very small, i though maybe younger bun but the vet couldn't get a look at her teeth to tell. he said it was a Pasteurella but i am not convinced he did a full check.. she just has a huge lump under her chin.. and a lot of ouss draining.. no runny nose or eyes or ear problems.. She runs and plays and kisses.. likes to ride in the car I think.. great personality. she eats her hay and pellets and shredded wheat.. but no fruit.. I am soaking the opening he made to keep the puss draining but that and antibiotics and away we go..:) sooo. .. recheck in 2 weeks and see where we are at..
she is orange and brown.. almost what a tortishell would be in cats. small, and almost too thin... not a clue what she is but she is cute..:) any advise from here would be great..

 
We wouldn't use baytril alone for a huge abscess . it probably just isn't strong enough.

Many of us see vets who after doing a culture and sensitivity will select 2 drugs that work synergistically and give them together .
Abscesses in rabbits are usually very difficult to treat and if not treated aggressively will either not resolve or worsen.
I don't know where you live but you need to find a vet who is very knowledgeable about rabbits .If we knew your location we may be able to assist you in doing that.

Most of us who have treated abscesses usually have used a drug like bicillin ( 2 forms of penicillin)which is injected subqutaneously every other day in addition to another oral medication like Cloramphenical, azithromycin. chlor-palm. etc

I know you said that you are new to rabbits so I'll give you some articles from our library to read. This is a lot of info but if you can take the time you will have a better chance of treating her and resolving the issue.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11791&forum_id=10
 
wow.. thanks.. that is a lot of info but will read it!! I am in kenosha wi. now the question is.. could my vet be wrong about snuffles.. could it be something else causing the abbsess..?
 
"Snuffles" is a general term for cold symptoms in rabbits. From your description, your rabbit has an abscess, not snuffles. Pasteurella is a pathogen that can cause abscesses, but there are also many other bacterial infections that could be involved.

As angie mentioned, the culture would be very important in determining treatment. Onc antibiotic does not work on all bacterial infections.

Pam

 
all righty then.. anyone know where i should take her.. i know NOONE with a rabbit in the area... sigh.. i work with a lot of vets around here because of the rescue but never for a rabbit...
 
Snuffles is really an out-dated term but a lot of vets still usethe term. Even some of our library links use the term because it is so common.
The term snuffles relates to the bacteria pasturella which often is dormant within a rabbit and emerges when the rabbit is stressed, ill, or elderly. The bacteria in your bunny's abscess may or may not be pasturella. Only a culture and sensitivity will tell

An Abscess contains maybe one or more strains of bacteria and because rabbits tend to wall off and encapsulate infections it is difficult for someantibiotics to reach and destroy the bacteria effectively. It doesn't really matter what you call it as it is bacteria. Since she came from a horrible sitution it could be a bite wound or anything .

here is more on infections

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12043&forum_id=10


Wi is a popular spot on this forum ; I'll see what I can find for you in Kenosha

http://www.wisconsinhrs.org/Recommended%20Vets.htm
Grayslake Ill.is not far from you but later when some more members get on possibly they can suggest someone in Kenosha.

I can tell you right now that most memeber equate injectable penicillin with abscesses but she doesn't sound like she is in acute distress right now so we'll wait for others to chime in

Eva is a pretty name. ....
 
angie, The term "snuffles" is used extensively in the rabbit industry including ARBA publications, 4-Hpublications and in most rabbit publications (including one of Kathy Smith's recent books). There doesn't appear to be any indication that use of the term is being phased out. ;)



Pam
 
Hi,

I treat a lot of abscesses. I can assure you that Baytril will not work with an abscess. In fact, Baytril isn't useful for much of anything with a rabbit. I generally do not drain, open, lance, etc any abscess. I usually use a combination of Penicillin and Zithromax (it is crucial that these drugs be administered properly). This combination of drugs is very good at penetrating the encapsulation and get to the core of the abscess. I have an entire protocol of infection treatments, pain management and husbandry support. This is a serious issue and needs to be aggressively treated....by a vet that is highly skilled in working serious rabbit issues. The infections from a jaw abscess can lead to devastating bone structure issues. Treating an abscess with antibiotics is much more of a good guess based on experience rather than medical tests. The core of the abscess, the heart of the infection, usually contains anaerobic bacteria. Some are faculative (they can live with or without oxygen)and some may be obligate anaerobes (they die when they come in contact with oxygen). It is very difficult to get a proper culture with an abscess. In many cases, either a secondary infection (like Pseudomonas, Staph or Strep) will be found as a "tag along". The real problembacteria might not survive the trip to the Petri Dish. Vets inexperienced in treating rabbit abscesses will follow their training and treat the bugs that grow in the agar. But, with an abscess, what is grown in that dish is not necessarily the primary cause of the infection. And that comes from my many years of treating abscesses.

And just for clarification, there is no such thing as "snuffles". It is a generic term from years ago. Originally intended to denote an upper respiratory infection but came to mean any infection that nobody could treat.

I am always available to consult with your doctor regarding abscess protocols. I highly suggest getting the treatment stepped up several levels and quickly.

Randy
 
I am looking for a vet.. the ones i called today either wanted 200+ to treat or couldn't see her till next weekend.. there is a pet store in town.. sort of a specialty place.. I am going to call in the morning because they deal with rabbit supplies and the owner has one.. see where they go with theirs and see if they can maybe help me get in..
I gave her the baytril anyway just in case it keeps her from getting worse.. she took it like a pro.. i have more problem medicating the cats in the rescue then Eva. she is still in good spirits and eating like a pig.. i am just totally worried now.. the puss they got out was thick white.. it seems a bit smaller in size and less sensetive.. is that good?
Thanks for all the support.. I really need it.. I am use to cats and dogs getting sick and can tell you what meds and what is wrong with most of them..but this is new... and soo different from other animals..
anything else i should watch for or worry about?
 
Flash had 2 jaw abscesses one was removed with surgery and the other a year later was given meds, Duo Pen injections and Azithromycin both times, as Randy mentioned you need more then Baytril.
 
If you need assitance don't hesitate to have Randy (wild-life rehabber..speciality with cottontails)talk to your current vet if your current vet would be willing. or pm him yourself (private message ra7751)

Randy has helped me in the past and is willing to to explain the rationale behind the treatment protocol to the vet .( or you)

I learned how to do bicillin injectionsthrough alot of conversations with Randy . None of the vets here know a lot about rabbits. SinceI am a retired nurse it was not difficult for me.

Now 1 yr later a vet over the border in MN who is learning animal dentistry is using bicillin injections for jaw abscesses..but I told her about it long before she heard about it at an exotics conference

I think that this is probably whatEva needs right now.

otherwise she sounds like she is doing well; even if the pus drains it won't dry up on it's own ..if it is a true abscess.

Do you do a lot of vaccinations etc at your rescue?
 
yes we do a lot of vaccines.. we do all our own distemper shots and leukimia testing on the cats plus i have had animals who need anitbiotic injections too.. so it has become second nature with cats and dogs but never with a rabbit. :) is it different?
 
I go to the vets at UW-Madison vet school, and take my hamster to Healthy Pet Veterinary clinic here in Madioson. I do think you need a more bunny-savvy vet for reasons already listed by other members.
 
well, can't get into a vet but talked with a different one i work with.. she said to it would be ok to use the baytril plus the penicillin i have here.. apparently it's ok in small doses to a rabbit. So we have her one both and it actually is draining on it's own a bit and seems like it is smaller and her lymph node is going down a tiny bit.. so hopefully that is a good sign..
I think she was bit or caught on something that caused it..
 
Betsy
You cannot give the pnicillin orally at all. If you are giving it by mouth please don't give anymore. It will be fatal to yur rabbit.

penicillin can only be give per injection and if the dose is too small the bacteria will build up resistance to it.
let us know we can help you with the injections

Maureen
 
right.. i have injectable stuff for the cats as well as the oral.. I had a cat who had been attacked by something and was given the injectable as it went to where it was need quicker.. so that is what we are trying with Eva too.. and thankfully it is 1/3 of what it was when i got her on thursday.. it is draining on it's own... well she is cleaning it.. she eats like a BIG PIG.. and her coat is not as blotchy or tangled.. like the hair just wouldn't lay down..now she is smooth coated and yesterday when i had her out of the cage she actually did a happy hop.. you know the ones :) her eyes are brighter and she snuggles when you hold her.. she was suppose to be a rescue and put up for adoption.. hmmm anyone think that will happen.. lol.. I want tot get pics on here so someone can give me an opinion on what she is and maybe some advice on how old at that point too.. the vet couldn't tell.. I don't care..no matter what. just curious.
 
Wow I'm so glad to hear this; many vets still don't know that it is safe for rabbits when given in an injectable form . I have given it many times.
We usually buffer the solution with lactated ringers to make it thinner and easier to inject, to cut down on the sting and also to prevent the formation of sterile abscesses.
We'd love to see her picture.
Iam so glad that she is improving.
 
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