Sick Bun -- Vitamin Supplements?

[zarathustra]

Hi everyone:

here is my situation --- i have a 3.5 year old Mini-Rex. A couple weeks ago she developed a sneeze. we took her to the vet immediately. Vet looked into her nasal cavity, took temp, et al. No problems. Told us to keep an eye on the sneezing.

Three days later she sneezed with a little snot. Back to the vet for a nasal swab and culture. While we were awaiting the nasal culture results the vet started her on Baytril. Snot got worse but then started getting better. Culture came back as a non-specific baterial infection.

We are starting our third week of baytril now. We upped the baytril to a dose and a half 2 times a day and it seems to have halted any progression and she started getting better.

However, she has kind of plateaued at this point. She still sneezes a bit and there doesn't seem to be any snot most of the time. Occasionally the base of her nose will be slightly wet from snot -- not too much just a tad. (we are continuing to check with the vet and such).

This is my first time with a sick bun and i do not know what is par for the course. From what i read, it seems buns don't get over infections as quickly as other animals. Correct?

Also, is there some sort of vitamin supplement i could be giving her to help her immune system?

 

[naturestee]

It's probably time to try a different med. Ask your vet about a newer antibiotic called Zithromax, or if injected penicillan might help. Baytril is very commonly used on rabbits and because of that there are a more and more strains of bacteria that have become resistant to it.

I wouldn't recommend vitamins as I don't trust the companies that make most of them. Oxbow makes a chewable Vitamin C tablet for guinea pigs that would be ok, if you want to try. But any quality brand of pellets should provide all the vitamins and minerals needed. It's more about finding the right medication and going long enough. I think it's usually at least a month.

Some people like to give echinacea but the studies on it are inconclusive. Talk to your vet before trying it because herbal remedies will sometimes react with medications.

 

[zarathustra]

Thanks for the reply.

I completely understand the idea of not giving some of the vitamin supplements i have seen for sale. Most seemed kinda sketchy to me. Saw the guinea pig tablets, may give those a try.

As per meds, I never knew there was Zithromax for rabbits! That stuff gets rid of anything i have ever had.

If i didn't have a rabbit centric vet, i would be a bit more worried. Everything i have read on the intratubes seems to indicate treating for illnesses takes a month to treat. i was just not sure as to the progression of the symptoms during the treatment. Will ask about the Zithromax when i speak to the vet today.

It wouldn't be a big deal right now if I wasn't going on vacation in a couple weeks. I was hoping that she would be good for the trip.

Mrs. S is just getting a bit testy at getting pulled out of her cage 2 times a day wrapped in a towel and getting force fed baytril. (not that I blame her).

 

[Haley]

Yeah Baytril can be pretty ineffective. Bunnies are becoming more and more immune to it.

I would ask about Zithromax, but it can be expensive. You might try something called chloremphenical first. My vetwanted to trythat with my bun when he had a runny nose which Baytril wouldnt kick. Its harmful to humans so you have to wear gloves when you give it, but proving to be very effective in bunnies.

Another thing you might do is feel all around your bun's nose and mouth for any abnormal bumps. Tooth root and jaw abscesses are very common in bunnies and can cause runny noses. It might also be good to ask your vet to check his teeth next time youre in just in case its something you cant feel externally.

 

[ra7751]

I'm confused. I thought that a culture and sensitivity would show exactly what the pathogen is. I have never seen a "non specific bacterial infection". Did the culture show any sensitivity to any of the drugs? If so, that might be a clue as to what it is. Drugs such as the sulfanomides (Septra, Bactrim, SMZ, etc.) and the "floxacins (Baytril and it's close relative Cipro) have been so abused and misused over the years that many bacteria are now resistant. And if you have a true bacterial infection, that sounds like what is happening. Resistance is something that evolves thru the improper use of an antibiotic...things such as guessing on what to use, theimproper dosing and from not finishing the entire round of treatment.

Zithromax is usually very effective against pasteurella. That is a gram-negative rod bacterium that is sometimes difficult to grow in a petri dish. Many times we assume pasteurella if we get no growth but all the other signs of a bacterial infection are present. There are starting to be some resistance to zithromax by some bacteria (and very much so in humans). A couple of broad spectrum antibiotics that are currently effective against most pathogens a rabbit might contract are penicillin and chloramphenicol. Many vets are stuck on the Sulfatrim/Baytril thing either byfalling behind in the latest information or clinic policies against using drugs "off label". That means that a particular drug hasn't been tested in a particular species. But all drugs are "off label" for rabbits. Pen G (there are several concentrations of this drug available) is very effective but is safe only as an injectable. Giving penicillin by mouth usually results in a very sick or dead rabbit. Chloramphenicol is sometimes difficult to obtain due to some nasty side effects in humans that either take it or handle it....a condition called aplastic anemia aka bone marrow suppression. Gloves and hand washing are proper protocol for handling this drug.

There are really two issues that concern me here....as mentioned, the "non-specific" bacterial infection. With the cost involved in a C&S....I expect correct answers...not more questions. I would request a "re-do" at no additional cost or have the clinic cover the costs of another C&S thru another lab. But the mention of a normal body temp has me questioning if this is truly a bacterial infection.

As far as supplements, as long as you are feeding a proper diet....low protein and high fiber, and using high quality food....there should be no need for supplements. The only real thing ascorbic acid (Vit C) does for a rabbit is to acidify the GI and urinary tract. It's an effective treatment is some situations butI don't think that is really necessary in this case up to this point anyway. And I am always very cautious about using herbal treatments especially when used while adminstering conventional drugs.

Just out of curiosity...how much does your rabbit weigh and how much Baytril are you giving? What is the concentration of the Baytril? It can be found on the label and should read something like 10mg/ml or something to that effect.

Randy