Sammi in stasis. (Resolved)

[kherrmann3]

Since I'm too lazy to re-type this whole thing, I am just copy/pasting it here. Does anyone have any other ideas as to what else I can do for her? I feel bad that she's not feeling the best. Thanks in advance for any tips or info!

04/20/2010

Well, McSammersons is in stasis.

She stopped eating regularly a few days ago, but being the optimist that I am, I somewhat "ignored" it and figured that it would pass. I have kept a close eye on her, though. The first day, I woke up and noticed poo all over her cage. This is odd, because she is normally meticulous with her potty habits. Then, she stopped running up to her bowl for her morning pellets. Then, she stopped pooping for the most part. I started to wet down her romaine well before giving it to her. I also started syringe-feeding her water. She was only nibbling at her hay. Then, she stopped eating the hay altogether and stopped drinking. I had to root around and find my bag of Critical Care and syringe-fed it to her. I only got 15 ml in her, though.

Today, we wound up at the vet. Since we had been doing everything else (tummy massages included!), the vet said that we were doing fine. Now, we just have to give her subcutaneous fluids and three doses of cisipride daily. In addition, we are supposed to give her Metacam (I had been doing that, too).

She took the sub-Q's like a pro, though. I did enlist the help of Will and my roommate, Sean, though. Will held her head/body still while I stuck the needle in and held it. Sean got to do the plunging of the fluids. All in all, we did well. We gave her 45ml of fluid. We did have to redo the stick once, though. She jumped away and I pulled the needle out. She did well for both sticks.

She's a good little girl (for now). I hope she pulls through this OK.

04/21/2010

Well, today could have gone better for Sammi. After getting her sub-Q fluids without incident, she pulled a "flying bunny" act and jumped off of Will's shoulder. Keep in mind, he's about 6'4". Now, she isn't putting much pressure on that front left foot. She was favoring it a bit before (from a previous flying bunny episode), but now she's hardly using it. Ugh. When will this end?

 

[tonyshuman]

Well, it's good that you have metacam for her. I don't know of much else you can do--you're getting her a lot of fluids, so that's great. All I can think of is some probiotic (unless you're still giving the CC) and maybe leave a bowl of pedialyte out.

I have to ask, did the vet do abdominal x-rays?

 

[ra7751]

I would suggest having a heart to heart discussion with the vet about the use of cisapride. I, in my non-professional opinion, feel that gut motility drugs are inappropriate for rabbits. The dynamics of the GI are much different most other species. These drugs induce painful contractions....and we know how rabbits respond to pain. These contractions are so intense that they can perforate the thin linings of the GI walls....and in some GI events, gastric ulcers form which further thins the walls. I would never use motility drugs in a rabbit. This isn't a dog or cat and the gut is much different....and it isn't hairballs like those animals get. I have had rabbits in stasis for over a week and the recovered using basically a rehydration protocol.

My response to stasis is always hydration....and plenty of it. I have also used fresh squeezed pineapple juice.....no clinical evidence that it works....but it always has here. I also use an antibiotic, Metronidazole as this drug will manage Clostridium (a bacteria that grows in GI events) but is also an anti-inflammatory. I have also started using a horse product, BioSponge, during GI events to bind and filter toxins.

Randy

 

[kherrmann3]

I will have to try and call the vet tomorrow. The only other medication I have on hand is Metoclopramide (from when Toby went to the emergency vet for stasis). I know that's another motility med, but is one less-harsh than another?

Sammi is drinking OK on her own, but I prefer to keep doing the subQ's until she is eating normally. The vet said that he could feel food in her stomach, but not her intestines. Her stomach was not hard, though. She still has a normal, "doughy" bunny stomach.

I did not get x-rays while at the vet. If this doesn't improve soon, however, that will be our next step.

 

[Maureen Las]

3)You can never "just wait and see" when a bun looks like their digestive tract is "off. "

Those first 12 hours can turn a rabbit around without the need of using a gut stimulant.

An owner needs to be very active in treating a rabbit for stasis. Going to the vet and giving a drug and sub q is not enough.
You need to get some items and this is what they are


1) Simethicone for gas. Any bun who is not pooping is going to develop gas which can both be uncomfortable and potentially dangerous. you can give 1 cc of simethicone X 3 doses 1 hour apart. You need to feel you rabbit's tummy.;a hard tummy usually indicates gas and simethicone is basically harmless anyway. Simethicone is sold as liquid infant gas drops. Read the back of the package as you want only simthicone as the active ingredient. Mylicon for Infants and Gas X for infants are 2 common brands.
If your rabbit seems gasey ( and also to stimulate peristalsis) you can give gentle tummy massages. Massage in a gentle rolling motion moving towards the tail of the rabbit. You can also encourage exercise to help get the gut moving.
If your rabbit seems uncomforable you can also provide a heat source for comfort and painby placing some rice in a sock and microwaving for a few minutes until it is warm. Check for heat that is distributed evenly so there are no 'hot spots";. you can put this in a part of the cage where your rabbit can choose to lie next to it or not.

2) Fresh Squeezed pineapple juice . (not canned). Give a few ccs a few times per day by syringe.

3) you can give oral hydration in addition to the sub q's so get some pedialyte ; you may wanto orally hydrate or give sub q's

4) A probiotic like benebac or Probios;. if the rabbit is not pooping the gut flora is ging to be off balance. Probios is sold for horses at farm stores but can be used our of the tube for rabbits. benebac is sold as a gel or in powder in stores like petsmart or petco.

5) pure canned pumpkin without seasoning is high in fiber and way easier to syringe than critical care. Some rabbits will eat it on their own.

If you are feeding veggies makes ure they are wet. Parlsey is a healthy veggie to try when a bun has GI proble

 

[tonyshuman]

I asked because I would consider using motility drugs if the x-ray was appropriate and he vet thought it was necessary. It's your choice. The two drugs seem to have similar indications, structures, and modes of action, so I don't know why they'd choose one over the other.

If you need BioSponge and can't get it let me know. I have some on hand. I got it from www.entirelypets.com

 

[Maureen Las]

kherrmann3 wrote:

I will have to try and call the vet tomorrow. The only other medication I have on hand is Metoclopramide (from when Toby went to the emergency vet for stasis). I know that's another motility med, but is one less-harsh than another?

Sammi is drinking OK on her own, but I prefer to keep doing the subQ's until she is eating normally. The vet said that he could feel food in her stomach, but not her intestines. Her stomach was not hard, though. She still has a normal, "doughy" bunny stomach.

I did not get x-rays while at the vet. If this doesn't improve soon, however, that will be our next step.

It is irresponsible for a vet to give a gut stimulant drug without initially doing an abdominal xray. if their is a true blockage it would kill the rabbit.

 

[kherrmann3]

angieluv wrote:

1) Simethicone for gas. I will have to look around my bunny medicine box. I used to have a bottle of that around for Toby. I will try giving that once I find it.

If your rabbit seems gasey ( and also to stimulate peristalsis) you can give gentle tummy massages. I have been giving her tummy massages several times a day since I noticed that she wasn't eating like normal. Being that she hates to be touched, it's been difficult, but I've still been doing it.

2) Fresh Squeezed pineapple juice . (not canned). Give a few ccs a few times per day by syringe. Last time I tried to give her pineapple juice, she wouldn't take it. I will have to give it another try.

3) you can give oral hydration in addition to the sub q's so get some pedialyte ; you may wanto orally hydrate or give sub q's She has been drinking on her own like normal. She is drinking about the same amount that she did before. She is still voiding normally, as well.

4) A probiotic like benebac or Probios;. if the rabbit is not pooping the gut flora is ging to be off balance. Probios is sold for horses at farm stores but can be used our of the tube for rabbits. benebac is sold as a gel or in powder in stores like petsmart or petco. I will have to take a peek at the local Petco for this.

5) pure canned pumpkin without seasoning is high in fiber and way easier to syringe than critical care. Some rabbits will eat it on their own. I have some in the cupboard. I will try giving that to her once I am done with this post.

If you are feeding veggies makes ure they are wet. Yup. Since she stopped eating pellets, I have been giving her a few leaves of thoroughly-moistened romaine during the day (and evening). She still eats her veggies. She doesn't attack them and snarf them down like she used to, but she is still picking at them and will finish them. It just takes her a little longer than it used to.

On a side note: I'm not just "waiting to see what happens". I tried everything that I could think of over the weekend to get her pooping again. When all of those options failed, I took her to the vet as soon as I could get her in. Since she was at the vet yesterday, we are waiting to see if these treatments help to get her moving. If that fails, we are going back in.

As of right now, she's pooping, but very few poops. Heck, after seeing none at all in her cage, I'm happy as heck with a few of them.

Thank you for the replies, everyone!

 

[kherrmann3]

Does anyone know if wrapping the leg would help? Or at this point, would it be stressing her out more than necessary?

You can kind of see how she's standing on her left front leg funny. She still runs on it, just doesn't stand on it.

 

[pamnock]

Nutrical - contains many nutrients and helps keep your rabbit hydrated. Also contains vitamin E to help heal damage nerve tissues in the GI system.

 

[tonyshuman]

I think wrapping it would just make her upset. I guess you have to restrict her to a cage, although some supervised exercise might help if she can handle it.

 

[dquesnel]

How is Sammi doing?

I don't think you mentioned anything anything about what the condition of her teeth are like. I take note of the pattern you described in your first post about how she stopped eating, because in my experience that is so typical of a molar spur bunny. Sometimes those spurs cannot be seen until the rabbit is under anesthetic and the vet can get a *really* good look in there. I would rule out the spurs because she won't start eating again until they get taken care of, if that is what it is of course.

You are likely seeing very few poops since there is not much going in.

It could be a good ol' case of GI stasis in which the cause should be determined. If you are giving her critical care, be sure to let it sit for 10 minutes after you mix it with water. You may be surprised that it could require more water. I like to serve it drippy- because if you serve CC that is not completely wet it will draw moisture from the stomach. This is the last thing you want.

 

[kherrmann3]

dquesnel wrote:

How is Sammi doing? She is still acting the same. She pooped a little more yesterday and ate more hay, but she's still only pooping about 25-50% of what she used to. She drank half of her water crock while I was out yesterday (that's about normal).

I don't think you mentioned anything anything about what the condition of her teeth are like. The vet was able to look at her teeth and molars OK. Since Sammi was gnawing away on the scope, he got a good look at all surfaces of her mouth. He said that they were wearing evenly, no spurs or shelving, and that her tongue and cheeks looked OK - no sore or raw spots (no irritation).

It could be a good ol' case of GI stasis in which the cause should be determined. If you are giving her critical care, be sure to let it sit for 10 minutes after you mix it with water. You may be surprised that it could require more water. I like to serve it drippy- because if you serve CC that is not completely wet it will draw moisture from the stomach. This is the last thing you want. Being that it was the first time giving her critical care, I was super-surprised to see how dry it was. It was like a moisture sponge! She hated the Critical Care, so I haven't been giving it as religiously as I should. I guess I will have to re-add that in to the regimen.

 

[tonyshuman]

Probiotic?

 

[cirrustwi]

Stasis just always sets off alarm bells in my head!! It is so frustrating to me. The rabbit digestive system is just so insanely complex and so different from most animals.

As far as the foot, I would just let it be for now to avoid stressing her more. Are you still giving the metacam? Have you seen or heard any teeth grinding that would indicate pain? Make sure you are controlling the pain because you don't want her to not be eating due to pain level as well.

 

[tonyshuman]

I just wonder why it happened in the first place, if her teeth are fine. We often say that stasis isn't a disease itself, but a symptom of something else--stress, a bit of bad food (like some veggie that was a bit too old), tooth problems, pain from something else, bladder issue, URI, something!

 

[kherrmann3]

I wonder if Will moving out caused the stasis? Also, I had switched litter again. I couldn't get my wooden pine pellets like normal, so I started mixing half-and-half wood pellets with Yesterday's News. When we originally got her, though, we were using plain Yesterday's News. She didn't have a problem from the original switch. I have been using plain pine pellets in her box, but I don't know what I am going to do when those run out.

Yes, she does get metacam twice a day (morning and evening).

She has not been grinding her teeth, just sitting funny on that foot.

She is eating and pooping more. It's still not the same as before, though.

 

[tonyshuman]

That could be pretty stressful. I thought Sammi was Will's bun? Are you keeping them together because they've bonded?

 

[Pipp]

How old is Sammi?


sas :clover:

 

[kherrmann3]

tonyshuman wrote:

That could be pretty stressful. I thought Sammi was Will's bun? Are you keeping them together because they've bonded?

Sammi is Will's bunny. Since he is staying with someone else, she can't go there right now. The bunnies hate each other.

Pipp wrote:

How old is Sammi?

Sammi is about 6. Since we got her a year ago from the shelter, we've always gone off of a guessed age. She was about 5 when we got her.