RESCUE: Chicago Heights, IL

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I just watched the full interview and cried myeyes out for this man. He obviously loves his rabbits so much and nowthey are taken away. He's been doing this thing for 15 years, divorced,probably has no kids. The buns are his kids. If he didn't love them,then he wouldn't have showed such emotion in the interview to make mecry my eyes out. He wouldn't be as loving to the buns that he pickedup. It showed soooo much.

I feel that she should be able to pick out 20 rabbits that are his mainfocus for breeding and showing. He should be allowed to still breed andshow, since it is his hobby and has been for 15 years. The HS shouldwatch him and do a one month check to make sure everything is keptclean and his rabbit numbers stay below 50.

He needs help to clean and fix up his bunny barns and his yard. I thinkthat if they drop his bunny numbers to only allow 20 bunnies at a time(about 50 during breeding, but then sell and be back down to 20), hewill have more money to pay for electicity. It would be neat if peoplestepped forward to send this man donations of fencing so he can buildbigger and better cages...possibly runs....since he would have morespace in his barn.

I do feel bad for the buns because they have no toys and little cages,but they do look healthy and friendly. You can't expect that barn to beneat and shiny clean with so many rabbits. They are obviously being fedand watered, none look like skin and bones. I lived in New York, I knowhow the winter freezes the bunny poop because I did have outdoorbunnies years ago.

There are heck of a lot of worse cases out there. I don't think thisone is very serious, the man just needs his numbers cut down,obviously. How about the news crew and the HS start being more seriousabout the abuse and horrors of Marshall's Ferret Farms?


Just my personal opinion.



- Amy
 
This just in from the Red Door Animal Shelter:

"More Rabbits Need Help--177 Taken From Breeder

You might have already seen it on Fox News: 177 rabbits were takenfrom appalling living conditions in Watseka, IL. Red Door is partneringwith South Suburban Humane Shelter, whose humance investigators got acourt order to take custody of the rabbits. Want to help Red Door helpthe 177 rescued rabbits? Please make a donation on this web site andmark it "For Rescued Rabbits." We'll make sure that your gift is useddirectly to help the 177 bunnies. Want to join a Red Door team ofvolunteers making weekly visits to SSHS to work with the rabbits? Sendus an email at [email protected] To read more about the rescue of177 rabbits, go to Red Door's blog."

From: http://www.reddoorshelter.org/news.php#item_38

I'll call Red Door to see if they need fosters, or if they are justgoing to have to keep them till the court proceedings is over. Fromwhat they said above, it looks like they're going to keep them but needhelp. I might call them to volunteer a day a week or something. I don'tlive that close to them but I want to do what I can.

EDIT: Just read the blog for Red Door and yes, they have to keep themuntil the court case is settled:http://behindthereddoor.blogspot.com/

Another Edit: Got an email back from the lady at Red Door:


"Hi Lauren--Thanks for your interest. Right now, Red Door volunteerswill be going down on Sunday, March 4 to SSHS in Chicago Heights. Afterthat, we're kind of winging it, but I assume we will be going oneweekend day for quite awhile. I'm still waiting to hear the time forSunday--SSHS is really overwhelmed right now, but I expect to an answerback soon.

I'll keep you posted--thanks
Marcia"

I'll keep you all posted! I'm going to try to make it this Sunday if Ican, although driving is harder to do while I'm recovering from surgeryand it is quite a ways away.
 
undergunfire wrote:
I just watched the full interview and cried my eyes out forthis man. He obviously loves his rabbits so much and now they are takenaway. He's been doing this thing for 15 years, divorced, probably hasno kids. The buns are his kids. If he didn't love them, then hewouldn't have showed such emotion in the interview to make me cry myeyes out. He wouldn't be as loving to the buns that he picked up. Itshowed soooo much.

I feel that she should be able to pick out 20 rabbits that are his mainfocus for breeding and showing. He should be allowed to still breed andshow, since it is his hobby and has been for 15 years. The HS shouldwatch him and do a one month check to make sure everything is keptclean and his rabbit numbers stay below 50.

He needs help to clean and fix up his bunny barns and his yard. I thinkthat if they drop his bunny numbers to only allow 20 bunnies at a time(about 50 during breeding, but then sell and be back down to 20), hewill have more money to pay for electicity. It would be neat if peoplestepped forward to send this man donations of fencing so he can buildbigger and better cages...possibly runs....since he would have morespace in his barn.

I do feel bad for the buns because they have no toys and little cages,but they do look healthy and friendly. You can't expect that barn to beneat and shiny clean with so many rabbits. They are obviously being fedand watered, none look like skin and bones. I lived in New York, I knowhow the winter freezes the bunny poop because I did have outdoorbunnies years ago.

There are heck of a lot of worse cases out there. I don't think thisone is very serious, the man just needs his numbers cut down,obviously. How about the news crew and the HS start being more seriousabout the abuse and horrors of Marshall's Ferret Farms?
Click to expand...
Amy your post made me cry. I thought exactly the same thingwhen I saw this story!Istartedlooking around my own house thinking, 'I really haveto clean up in here,the Better Housekeeping Bunny Police maycome by!'The only problem to me seemed to be thepoop piling up that was far away from the bunnies. Heprobably had too many to keep properly exercised, so you're right, heneeds to cut back, but they weren't abused, and he was playing withthem and keeping them entertained.

And Marshall Farms is now breeding and marketingrabbits.:( But just because theyhavethebig bucks (pun intended) from exhaustive breeding to paysomebody to shovel poop everyday,their rabbits (read:products) aren'tconsidered abused.It'sreally sad!

sas :cry4:
 
I hear you. I REALLY just do not see any abusein this case. On another forum I got bashed for saying that, but it istrue, I just don't see it.

The man just needs a whole lot of help. I don't see him as a hoardereither. That's like saying a farmer with 200 milk cows is a hoarder.The farmer has his cows for a reason, it's his hobby, it's his life.This man had his rabbits for a reason, and now they are gone and he hasnothing left. It wasn't a releif to him, it was a huge stake to theheart. He had a goal to cut down his heard, but they didn't give him achance.

I don't get how they attacked this man and took away his preciousbunnies, when there is REAL abuse and torture in labratories that useanimals. Isn't that the bigger issue?


I can't beleive Marshall Farms is going to produce rabbits. This makesme so sad, VERY SAD. I bet they will all come with little dot's intheir ears indicating something too.


- Amy
 
Guys, I understand and I do feel bad for thisguy. But yes, he has stretched himself beyond his means (can't affordelectricity) and I feel he needs at least to give the shelter the sickones to get proper care.

I do hope he gets some back, but he needs to get back on his feet. Itseems he does care about them, and...well it seems like they're hiskids. And, they probably are a big part of his livelyhood. As much as Ihate people selling buns for Easter, he probably would have made apretty penny and could have gotten back his electricity.

However, I do feel bad for the sick ones (and that they were byhealthyones)and the fact that the barn washeated.

Either way right now, the shelter is overwhelmed and has to keep them,and they need help taking care of the 177 new bunnies. You can help byvolunteering to go help clean, groom, nail trim, cage clean, etc at theshelter or you can contact The Red Door Shelter and make a donationthat will go directly to the supplies for the 177.

And keep them and the man in your prayers that everything will work out best for everyone involved. :pray:

 
I think several of you are a bit nuts if youdon't think that was abuse... THE MAN HAD OVER 200 RABBITS! Many ofwhom were NEAR DEATH or with serious conditions. The HumaneInvestigators said there was evidence of many going without food orwater for several days. They were also kept on wire with little to nostimulation, or medical treatment, and kept in a freezing barn. That isABUSE. The man did need help, and that's why his rabbits were takenaway. He obviously cannot handle the responsibility breeding entails.For the rabbits to be taken away, the humane investigators had to getevidence of a compelling enough sort to comply with laws regardinghumane treatment. I realize the man seemed nice in the interview, and IDO feel bad for him, his life has obviously gone wrong in a number ofareas. I would even be fine with him being given back neutered andspayed rabbits, perhaps up to 5 or so to keep him company, and that hewould be able to care for. It honestly scares me that you all could seethat video, see the many skulls rotting open in the piles in the yard,and see all of the matted fur, overgrown toenails, horrible eye andnose sores, and hear about the various diseases, and NOT think this isabuse. Would you treat your rabbits this way??
 
I only saw one skull. I saw no matted bunny fur. I saw no long toe nails.

I haven't read anywhere where it says the buns were out of food and water for several days. Who says they were?


Remember....this is NOT goosemoose.com. This is a friendly board. I will NOT argue with anyone.



- Amy
 
This is not about being friendly it is about being educated. Those rabbits were abused.

If you watched the extended video there were several skulls.

http://www.sshspets.org/

rabbits-006.jpg


Watch the video below..

Fox News (Chicago) update last night on the Watseka Rabbits:

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/p...le=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Original Story:

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/p...le=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Joan and Dave Irwin from Chicago HRS were on-site with a veterinaryteam yesterday. 8+ hours, they evaluated 70 of the 184+rabbits. Evaluations will continue daily untilcomplete. Joan indicated that *the most urgent shelter needsnow* are food and water crocks - the stainless steel bowls are beingtipped over, cages are wet. Feeding hay is a challenge if wecan't keep it dry. For folks interested in making a donation,consider crocks right now - orders can be placed through the FirstFriday pick-up.

On-Site Care: In addition to cage cleaning, significantgrooming assistance is needed. Rabbits have very long nailsthat need to be trimmed. There are Jersey Wooleys that havesignificantly matted fur. The ill rabbits (URI and syphillis)need daily penicillin injections - if you have experience deliveringinjectable medication, your experience is definitely needed.

Red Door Animal Shelter is planning a trip on Sunday. Tocomplement their volunteer support, we are arranging a tripSaturday. Please let me know if you are available to help outSaturday. Or if you could cover the Keystone Petco volunteerslot Saturday.

We have volunteers interested in Central Illinois, Southern Michigan,NE Indiana, NW Indiana, and Indiananpolis. I am happy to takethe lead on the Indianapolis carpool. Please let me know ifyou are interested in being a contact point for carpools (or meetingpoints in Northern Indiana).

Thanks,
Dawn

Hi Everyone,

I have included everyone who has expressed the desire to help out atSSHS. If you could confirm attendance and if you need a ridefrom Indianapolis, that would be helpful. We have a lot ofsupplies to transport - hay, pellets, crocks. The shelteralso needs litterboxes and cages if anyone has one to spare.

I have spoken to shelter staff at South Suburban Humane Society(www.sshspets.org). We have permission to arrive before the shelteropens. We are targeting arrival at 9am Chicago time, which is10am Indianapolis time. If you cannot make it at that time,please arrive as soon as you can, the shelter opens at noon.

The mapquest directions indicate the drive will take 2.5 hours fromIndianapolis, a lot of this will be the trip from I65 across Route30. We will need to leave Indianapolis no later than7:15am. Departure locations TBD. If you are willingto drive/haul supplies, please let me know.

Until I hear otherwise, here is the list of tasks that need to be completed per Joan Irwin from Chicago HRS:

Feeding and Cleaning!!!

Medicate Rabbits [per Judy at shelter]: Pencillin injectionsdispensed late in the day. Several rabbits with cornealulcers need ABX ointment 4X/day. For eye medication, we willneed to triage and medicate them upon arrival, at lunch time, and againbefore departing. If you have experience with injectionsand/or dispensing eye medication, please let me know.

Sort rabbits into group by sex and health status: We sorted the groups of young
rabbits but have cages and pens of mature rabbits of mixed sex. We just didn't
have time to worry about the group dynamics of changing adult groups today. I
left suggestions with Judy who seems to be their senior vet tech type person.
Jennifer from DCAC will go down to help tomorrow and Colleen Cameron will go
again on Thursday. I'm hoping they will be able to help with that task. After
we sort the sexes we should try to group the ill rabbits in one area. Right now
they are mixed in.

Break rabbits into smaller groups. Some of the cages have 4 or 5 adolescent
rabbits and there are a few large pens with up to 10 rabbits. Ideally, I'd like
to see it go down to 2 or at the most 3 per cage and maybe 6 in a pen. It may
not be feasible due to space limitations. We can get cages but we need space to
put them.

Grooming issues. Almost every rabbit has badly overgrown nails that need to be
clipped. There are quite a few Jersey wooleys that are matted in varying
degrees. A few really need to be shaved down but several just need some mats
clipped and basic grooming.

Equipping living space better. We need to introduce litter pans and get
appropriate food/water bowls in the cages. It's just fine tuning but the right
set up will make ongoing maintenace much easier.

Supplies,etc. I'd bring any small equipment like bowls, litter pans, etc.
Food and hay will definely not go to waste. They need more cages but space may
be an issue. I'd say bring them on. At this point they don't have anyone who
needs Critical Care but it would be great to have on hand. They have very few
medical supplies. Addition: bring nail clippers!

Breaking News: Bob Krabill and Paul Cracco, regional PetcoCompanion Animal Managers, have been in touch with SSHS to obtain alist of supplies needed. Paul is working directly with thePetco Foundation to secure needed supplies to help theserabbits. Paul is also working with the Petco Foundation tosecure funds for spay/neuter once SSHS obtains custody of the rabbits.

Thanks to everyone for their willingness to help out the Watsekarabbits. I look forward to working with everyone Saturday.

Dawn

 
"We sorted the groups of young
rabbits but have cages and pens of mature rabbits of mixed sex"

Does that mean that male and female rabbits are living in the samepens? I hope they are prepared to have many pregnant does ontheir hands. I would think seperating by sex would besomething that would be done before grouping the buns.

I can understand the haste and franticness that must have been involvedin getting the buns out, but my first step would have been to mark themall M/F by marking the ears or something.

It really does concern and worry me. As far as I know, theyhave to wait until the man goes through trial and is ordered by thecourt to not be allowed to have his buns back before they canspay/neuter any of the buns. If they are stretched to thelimit right now, what happens if half (or more) of the females havebabies?? They won't have the manpower, space or supplies toproperly handle them.

--Dawn
 
yeah I was worried about that too dawn.. I amhoping that the stress of the move will have stopped them from mating,or that more have been separated, but I won't know until I get there.They did mention having no rabbit people on hand, so maybe with manybeing young they didn't know how to sex them? I am not sure whentesticles decend on male rabbits..



edit er nevermind.. they said mature ones.. maybe they were being keptmixed in the barn he had them in? But that should be taken care ofeither already or by tomorrow, so fingers crossed..
 
Thanks for your extreme interest in thissituation, MaevePotter. I will try to make it on Sunday (but I might begoing to look at a house to buy, so we'll see). I'm going to contactthe AWL (as it's lessthan a mileaway)andsee if they are helping and if I could drop off some supplies. Maybetalk to the local Petsmart too.

And just to clarify, I don't think anyone said that he should get ALLhis rabbits back. I myself said he should get some back if they arespayed or neutered if he wanted them as pets. Or, if he wanted to breedthem, he needs to learn how to space them out so he doesn't have 200rabbits on his hands. But, I can see how people noticed that he has afondness for his animals. The fact that they weren't skiddish and theywould come up to them when he was around showed, to me anyways, that hedid spend a lot of time with them, which is more than I can say foreven some people who have them as house pets, let alone breeding.

Yes many of these rabbits were mistreated and needed help andSHOULD have been taken away. Being w/out food or water fordaysand not being properly groomed/nails clipped, it awful.One man can not fully, responsiblycare for 200 rabbits.Period. I can barely handle the daily care of 2 (1 with slight headtilt); I couldn't imagine 200, and some that require daily care forchronic illnesses! And he has no money! If he had only a few and couldsave up more money, I do feel he would have managed the situationbetter. If he wanted to continue to breed, he needs to learn to notoverbreed and to keep a steady population under like 20 rabbits at atime. Maybe even less. That way, he could better manage the buns, givethem more room to run, etc. (Although I'm more for him having only afew spayed/neutered rabbits back). But, as a farmer who makes littlemoney, I'm sure it is part of his lively-hood to breed and more thanjust a hobby. Everyone involved were victims of bad circumstances.Unforunately, the man could have taken control but the bunnies couldnot.

I just hope the bunnies can bounce back. Poor little guys.

Also, I only recall seeing one skull on the unedited video and Iwatched it4 times. He did say sometimes he had to put themdown, but he hated to do it and tried to bring them back tohealth.Don't all breeders have to put some down,evenright after some are born? Any breeders out there thatcould answer that, it would be appreciated as I really have noidea.

Yes there was some abuse and I'm glad that the buns got out of thereand get a chance to 'hop' back. However, I also feel empathy. Forexample, I had surgery last week and I couldn't change Driz and Latte'sboxes for 2 weeks. Does that mean I'm abusing them? It just makes youthink sometimes, what do these groups constitute as abuse? Yes, in thiscase, there were rabbits that were mistreated and it was clearlydocumented. But if they came to my house and saw my litter boxes full,hay all over my floor, bunnies unbrushed (even though I wasincapacitated, but I did feed them everydayl...or my husband did when Icouldn't walk) would they have taken them away? And I'm still convincedthat there was only 14 days-28 days of rabbits droppings on that floor(not 3 months like the society claims). Not that that changes anything,as it should be cleaned daily (spot cleaning) and weekly deep cleaning.But, would they have come into my house this week and told me that's 4weeks worth of droppings in my guy's litter boxes, even though I knewit was only 2 weeks?

And, I'm not defending the man. If he mistreated/mishandled them, thenthey should go. I'm not trying to start an argument either. I'm justtrying to make people think.

It's a horrible, horrible situation for ALL involved; all the littledefenselessbunnies, the man who's buddies were taken away,AND the shelter who is overwhelmed with 200 rabbits.

And Dawn I agree, they should have separated them. I hope they dothat on Sunday. But by then, they may have a lot that are alreadypreggers.
 
I'm just very concerned that in rushing in tohelp (which was very commendable of them!), and not having someone onhand to sex them, that they've made an awful situation for themselves.

The stress of the move probably won't stop many from mating, and as weall know it only takes 10 seconds for a doe to be impregnated.

It would be a different story if they where going to do a massspay/neuter with in the weeks following the rescue mission.But I don't think they are doing that.

I just really would hate to see someones good intentions and hard work go sour by a bunch of does giving birth...

I hope very few or none actually got breed. And maybe the situation is a bit different than described.

--Dawn
 
also there was mention that many does werealready pregnant at the time, so maybe the already pregnant ones arestill with the males? anyway you look at it there will be baby bunnies..
 
I'm hoping there won't be many pregnant rabbits,but I'm doubtful. My hubby bred rabbits for 4H as a kid untiltheir shed burnt down. All the rabbits were saved, but theyhad to put them all in a livestock trailer to hold them until theycould replace the cages the next day. All the rabbits wereNew Zealands except for my hubby's pet dutch buck, and the familythought it was very funny that every single one of the does gave birthto half-dutch babies 30 days later. He beat the New Zealandbuck to every single doe.:shock:

And he obviously wasn't put off by the fire, smoke, or being unceremoniously tossed out of the shed by the firefighters.

If that won't put a buck off, I doubt a simple grab-and-transport would upset too many.:?

That's going to be a heck of a lot of rabbits.
 
Again, I agree with Lalena in every aspect of her post.

Meanwhile, I posted somethingsimilar to the post below to theShowbunny list, a breeders boardthat's doing fundraising forPaul Craft, the bunnys' owner.

-----------

There can be a very thin line between rescuers and 'hoarders', so thisisn't breeder-specific. Irresponsible owners can be breeders,pet owners and yes, rescuers.

The ideal situation with Paul IMO would have been for the rescue groupto step in and help when the situation was first reported inDecemberwhile the rabbits were still on his property, and tosolicit help from other breeders. While I understand thatit's difficult for a non-profit to support what they see as acommercial enterprise, the bunnies already had a low-stress home with aguy who obviously cared about them, he justneededhelp.

Now there's a duplication of efforts, the rescue group is looking forcages, foster homes, volunteers to help medicate, feed and groom them,etc, there is a volunteer call out for the property to clean emptycages, and funds are being solicited by both sides. Ultimately the only'winners' are going to be the lawyers.

It's unfortunate that the differences can't be set aside with rescuersand breeders concentrating on what's best for the rabbits.

sas
 
I watched the full interview, and I think hereally does care. But that doesn't mean he should be able to keep hisrabbits in bad conditions. He just couldn't afford to breed that many.I think he should get some of his rabbits back, 5, 10, mabye even 20because he has the room (if he made bigger cages and some runs...) butall of them should be spayed or neutered.

I highly doubt they will give them all back, and my aunt has beenlooking for a baby netherland dwarf or lionhead (she loves my rabbitsand takes care of them if we go anywhere). So maybe she could find onethere once the court things are over with.
 
I don't either. I have no sympathy for this man.He should have quarantined the sick rabbits at the very least, insteadof having them together with the healthy ones, but apparently none ofthem were healthy.

I hope the judge charges him with animal cruelty and the rabbits not be returned back to him. Disgusting.
 
Ok, I don't have any more pity if he has rabbitsdying of pneumonia. That's more rabbits dead so far than hesaid were even sick, so maybe he didn't even notice. And thesyphilis is a serious issue but easily controlled... by not breedingsick rabbits together and not breeding the babies from infectedmoms. Or letting them be in contact with otherrabbits. How do you let something like that spread?
 
naturestee wrote:
Ok, I don't have any more pity if he has rabbits dying ofpneumonia. That's more rabbits dead so far than he said wereeven sick, so maybe he didn't even notice. And the syphilisis a serious issue but easily controlled... by not breeding sickrabbits together and not breeding the babies from infectedmoms. Or letting them be in contact with otherrabbits. How do you let something like that spread?
Click to expand...
Just read the Red Door Shelter's blog. After readingthatover 11 have died so far since they were rescued and some littlebabies are blind from being in such small cages, I don't haveany more sympathy. That's just wrong. :X

Which just shows me he wasn't doing his best at all.

If these rabbits were really his buddies, they wouldn't have been treated like that.

Drizzle and Latte ARE my buddies and I think his 3x2 condo is toosmall! Some of these buns were put 6 in ONE cage. Growing bunnies needroom...to grow! And now, a lot are blind from being up against thecages w/ their eyes. :shock::Sigh:

http://behindthereddoor.blogspot.com/
 
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