CKGS
Well-Known Member
I love you Polly! These are the very things I was getting at. Being a breeder (of any animal) needs to be so much more than throwing a male and female together and letting nature take its course. A responsible breeder that is.
Questions for breeders
- Thread starter CKGS
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irishbunny
Well-Known Member
I think Polly is a breeder everyone should look up, she treats her rabbits with love and respect.
tori
Well-Known Member
Wow a lot of people have posted since I last checked lol
Yes Janet, I have also learned that rabbit breeding is extremely different from dog breeding. But you should also be aware that your GSD breeder is about one in a million. While most responsible breeders will try to take a dog they bred back, the extent he went to is extremely rare and I don't know that I have ever heard of a breeder doing all that. But it is also not always possible for even a responsible dog breeder to take a dog back. They will almost guaranteed try to help you rehome it, but its also not always possible for them to take the dog back even if they would like to.
Now it has been several years since I have owned rabbits, which is why I am researching again. But I have read that they need a lot of time devoted to getting out of their cage each day. One site even said a minimum of 4 hours each day to get out and run around! It sounds like most of you breeders don't go by that, but maybe take them out at most every other day. Firstly, how big are your enclosures? And second, would you expect a new owner to take their new rabbit out that often even if you don't?
I am loving this discussion and hope its okay for me to introduce some new questions!
Tori
Yes Janet, I have also learned that rabbit breeding is extremely different from dog breeding. But you should also be aware that your GSD breeder is about one in a million. While most responsible breeders will try to take a dog they bred back, the extent he went to is extremely rare and I don't know that I have ever heard of a breeder doing all that. But it is also not always possible for even a responsible dog breeder to take a dog back. They will almost guaranteed try to help you rehome it, but its also not always possible for them to take the dog back even if they would like to.
Now it has been several years since I have owned rabbits, which is why I am researching again. But I have read that they need a lot of time devoted to getting out of their cage each day. One site even said a minimum of 4 hours each day to get out and run around! It sounds like most of you breeders don't go by that, but maybe take them out at most every other day. Firstly, how big are your enclosures? And second, would you expect a new owner to take their new rabbit out that often even if you don't?
I am loving this discussion and hope its okay for me to introduce some new questions!
Tori
bunnybunbunb
Well-Known Member
"Firstly, how big are your enclosures? And second, would you expect a new owner to take their new rabbit out that often even if you don't?"
Enclosures as in the free time ones? I have a small 2' x 2' cage for the babies to play in in the grass at the moment, a bigger one is in the works. I then have a 6' x 4' wire cage for the adults(the wire is to big for babies) for in the grass. The run in the building is 6 ' x whatever I make it, 1 to 3 foot depending on how much room I need at that moment.
Do I expect the pet owners to get them out a few hours a day? Yes, with a low number it is not hard to. Would I expect a breeder to get them out every day for hours? No, however I would expect them to get free time a few times a week.
A few of my bunnies have large cages, 3' long by 2', 6' long by 2', 2' 1/2' by 2', ect and so I try to let the ones in the adverage size cages (2' x 2') out more often in the play pens.
Everyone has toys which are switched around periodicly. I make and sell toys so I have diffrent styles as well as eggs, jingle balls, baby toys, ect.
Enclosures as in the free time ones? I have a small 2' x 2' cage for the babies to play in in the grass at the moment, a bigger one is in the works. I then have a 6' x 4' wire cage for the adults(the wire is to big for babies) for in the grass. The run in the building is 6 ' x whatever I make it, 1 to 3 foot depending on how much room I need at that moment.
Do I expect the pet owners to get them out a few hours a day? Yes, with a low number it is not hard to. Would I expect a breeder to get them out every day for hours? No, however I would expect them to get free time a few times a week.
A few of my bunnies have large cages, 3' long by 2', 6' long by 2', 2' 1/2' by 2', ect and so I try to let the ones in the adverage size cages (2' x 2') out more often in the play pens.
Everyone has toys which are switched around periodicly. I make and sell toys so I have diffrent styles as well as eggs, jingle balls, baby toys, ect.
irishbunny
Well-Known Member
I asked a question about breeders letting their rabbits out for playtime and the majority don't let their rabbits out at all.
CKGS
Well-Known Member
And that is the sad part Gracie. And Tori feel free to post any questions you can think of here. I know I miss some and would love to hear answers to any and all questions.
Next question from me- Why have so many rabbits that you can't possibly care for them they way you wish your buyers would? Isn't that a double standard? Shouldn't you as a breeder who cares for the animals they breed be setting the example for novice owners?
Next question from me- Why have so many rabbits that you can't possibly care for them they way you wish your buyers would? Isn't that a double standard? Shouldn't you as a breeder who cares for the animals they breed be setting the example for novice owners?
bunnybunbunb
Well-Known Member
"Why have so many rabbits that you can't possibly care for them they way you wish your buyers would? Isn't that a double standard? Shouldn't you as a breeder who cares for the animals they breed be setting the example for novice owners?"
9 of my 15 rabbits are strickly pets so to have 6 breeder rabbits is not bad at all. I do wish to do better for them but one must understand that I have more than rabbits. If I just had rabbits it would be simple to give them all loads of free time but I have dogs, cats, hamsters, fish and a chicken. I take in rescues a lot and my time is very split. It might be a double standard but I believe most of us wish there was more time for them all.
To breed you need more than 2-3 of that breed to better it. Now, you do not need 50 rabbits but you do have to grow litters. You have a few bucks and does of each breed to be able to do anything proper. If I did not have so many rescue/pet bunnies I would be able to give everyone free time everyday.
9 of my 15 rabbits are strickly pets so to have 6 breeder rabbits is not bad at all. I do wish to do better for them but one must understand that I have more than rabbits. If I just had rabbits it would be simple to give them all loads of free time but I have dogs, cats, hamsters, fish and a chicken. I take in rescues a lot and my time is very split. It might be a double standard but I believe most of us wish there was more time for them all.
To breed you need more than 2-3 of that breed to better it. Now, you do not need 50 rabbits but you do have to grow litters. You have a few bucks and does of each breed to be able to do anything proper. If I did not have so many rescue/pet bunnies I would be able to give everyone free time everyday.
CKGS
Well-Known Member
So why not choose one breed to 'better'? Why not focus on that one breed and do the best you can for the rabbits in your care and the breed and also help with rescues. Btw I commend you for working with rescues also.
That's another thing I may be the only one who believes this but I believe if you breed any animal you should try to help out with rescue animals also. After all it is true that for every litter bred- another loses a home or dies. Giving back is a good idea in my book anyday!:thumbup
That's another thing I may be the only one who believes this but I believe if you breed any animal you should try to help out with rescue animals also. After all it is true that for every litter bred- another loses a home or dies. Giving back is a good idea in my book anyday!:thumbup
bunnybunbunb
Well-Known Member
"So why not choose one breed to 'better'? Why not focus on that one breed and do the best you can for the rabbits in your care and the breed and also help with rescues. Btw I commend you for working with rescues also."
Many people do stick to one breed but from what I have saw it is mostly Lionhead breeders, haha. I want two breeds because... well I do. I love Hollland Lops and have always wanted to do Dutch and so I picked two. What is the diffrents in me having 10 breeders, 5 of each breed, and someone that has one breed having 10 breeders of that breed? Nothing.
Many people do stick to one breed but from what I have saw it is mostly Lionhead breeders, haha. I want two breeds because... well I do. I love Hollland Lops and have always wanted to do Dutch and so I picked two. What is the diffrents in me having 10 breeders, 5 of each breed, and someone that has one breed having 10 breeders of that breed? Nothing.
CKGS
Well-Known Member
That wasn't what I was saying at all. And was not directed at you, just so everyone knows that. What I am talking about is breeders who have so many that they can't ever give the rabbits fun time. You sound like you do as good a job of that as possible. I guess I am done here. Thanks for the responses guys.
bunnybunbunb
Well-Known Member
No, don't be done 
I like this
I was just answering the question, I know it wasn't directed at me.
I like this I was just answering the question, I know it wasn't directed at me.
CKGS
Well-Known Member
Okay Samantha. I just wanted to make sure I am not upsetting anyone because apparently I have some and feel maybe this thread should end. Some seem to not be so happy about too many questions. I did not meant to cause upset. For those who answered and weren't upset by any comments I made- Thank you. For those who have been offended or upset I am sorry. That was not my point. My point was to find out answers and to see breeders exchange ideas about ways to better eachothers' rabbitry. It was an openminded exchange and nothing more but I do have opinions and I will not compromise myself or my ideals and bend to make them like anyone elses. So I am sorry for any I have angered. Stepping on toes was not my idea at the start of this thread.
OakRidgeRabbits
Well-Known Member
Ah, I missed a lot of responses! I'll try to cover my opinions here on everyone's comments:
Rabbit breeders are just so different from dog breeders. I have a hard time understanding why there is any reason to have so many rabbits that you don't have room to take them back.
I'm not sure what is hard to understand about that. As we all know, rabbits can live on the upper side of 7-10 years. Breeders don't always have the room to take them back at the drop of a hat. It's just that simple.
Beyond that, I am very careful of who I introduce back into my herd for health and safety reasons. I don't always have room to isolate a rabbit for 4-6 weeks to make sure he hasn't picked up something at the new owner's house. Taking a rabbit back isn't at all as easy as sticking a cage back in the barn, ya know?
What if, for instance, you have 2,3,4 litters that don't sell (for whatever reason)?
I'd keep them and care for them of course!
What do you do with those babies you don't have the room for?
I sell them. If there is no demand, they stay until there is some.
What happens then when they are old enough and can start breeding with eachother?
They must be separated into separate cages.
When brothers impregnate sisters? I am sure this does happen sometimes.
Um, no, this NEVER happens in my rabbitry. Reputable breeders don't indiscriminantly, irresponsibly, throw rabbits in cages and let them breed.:shock:
I disagree. Handling makes them tamer, if when they are taken out good things happen they will beg for it. I am not saying pulling them out 4-5 times a day is good but getting out of the same ole small space at least every other day or so is needed. I am suprised breeder animals do not go insane sitting in the same place week after week.
No way. From personal experience, if the rabbits are physically picked up daily they get more jumpy and excited about leaving the cage. This is not what you want in a show rabbit. Excessive handling ruins them, hands down. This doesn't mean my rabbits sit ina tiny shoebox their entire lives. But there IS such a thing as too much handling. I have found that it is much better to touch, pet, stroke, kiss, etc. the bunnies on the floor than to lift them and carry them regularly.
How many breeders here feed veggies? I swear, everytime I take in a new rabbit it takes me 5 days to 2 months to get them to even try a vegetable or to eat grass. It makes me so sad
Veggies are a HUGE no-no in my rabbitry. The rabbits lose condition rapidly when on veggie diets, andso many people who feed veggie diets seem to have serious digestive issues in their rabbits. To the point where some are giving simethicone drops DAILY. I have never, in 10 years of breeding, had a single digestive upset. Not a single one. I feed a nutritionally balanced pellet, a pinch of rolled oats, and a handful of timothy hay daily.
Being a breeder (of any animal) needs to be so much more than throwing a male and female together and letting nature take its course. A responsible breeder that is.
I think it's very sad that this is the impression people have of breeders. Exactly why I WANT people to see my rabbitry. So very few people are this ignorant and irresponsible that the numbers are hardly worth a second look. A large majority of breeders are so far beyond "throwing a male and female together" that this statement just blows my mind.:twitch:
Why have so many rabbits that you can't possibly care for them they way you wish your buyers would?
Who does this? Seriously?I take care of my rabbits the same way as I would, whether I have 1 or 394.The day I can't care for them is the day they leave. I set an example for my buyers, not lecture them not to do whatI do.:?
That's another thing I may be the only one who believes this but I believe if you breed any animal you should try to help out with rescue animals also. After all it is true that for every litter bred- another loses a home or dies.
Um, sorry. But personally, I know that pet overpopulation is not the fault of reputable breeders, so I don't feel the least bit wrong about breeding. Overpopulation is the result of careless pet owners andignorant backyard breeders. Period. Line drawn. Shelters cannot at all be traced back to those who are putting love, time, and exceptional care into their animals.
:Rabbit breeders are just so different from dog breeders. I have a hard time understanding why there is any reason to have so many rabbits that you don't have room to take them back.
I'm not sure what is hard to understand about that. As we all know, rabbits can live on the upper side of 7-10 years. Breeders don't always have the room to take them back at the drop of a hat. It's just that simple.
Beyond that, I am very careful of who I introduce back into my herd for health and safety reasons. I don't always have room to isolate a rabbit for 4-6 weeks to make sure he hasn't picked up something at the new owner's house. Taking a rabbit back isn't at all as easy as sticking a cage back in the barn, ya know?
What if, for instance, you have 2,3,4 litters that don't sell (for whatever reason)?
I'd keep them and care for them of course!
What do you do with those babies you don't have the room for?
I sell them. If there is no demand, they stay until there is some.
What happens then when they are old enough and can start breeding with eachother?
They must be separated into separate cages.
When brothers impregnate sisters? I am sure this does happen sometimes.
Um, no, this NEVER happens in my rabbitry. Reputable breeders don't indiscriminantly, irresponsibly, throw rabbits in cages and let them breed.:shock:
I disagree. Handling makes them tamer, if when they are taken out good things happen they will beg for it. I am not saying pulling them out 4-5 times a day is good but getting out of the same ole small space at least every other day or so is needed. I am suprised breeder animals do not go insane sitting in the same place week after week.
No way. From personal experience, if the rabbits are physically picked up daily they get more jumpy and excited about leaving the cage. This is not what you want in a show rabbit. Excessive handling ruins them, hands down. This doesn't mean my rabbits sit ina tiny shoebox their entire lives. But there IS such a thing as too much handling. I have found that it is much better to touch, pet, stroke, kiss, etc. the bunnies on the floor than to lift them and carry them regularly.
How many breeders here feed veggies? I swear, everytime I take in a new rabbit it takes me 5 days to 2 months to get them to even try a vegetable or to eat grass. It makes me so sad
Veggies are a HUGE no-no in my rabbitry. The rabbits lose condition rapidly when on veggie diets, andso many people who feed veggie diets seem to have serious digestive issues in their rabbits. To the point where some are giving simethicone drops DAILY. I have never, in 10 years of breeding, had a single digestive upset. Not a single one. I feed a nutritionally balanced pellet, a pinch of rolled oats, and a handful of timothy hay daily.
Being a breeder (of any animal) needs to be so much more than throwing a male and female together and letting nature take its course. A responsible breeder that is.
I think it's very sad that this is the impression people have of breeders. Exactly why I WANT people to see my rabbitry. So very few people are this ignorant and irresponsible that the numbers are hardly worth a second look. A large majority of breeders are so far beyond "throwing a male and female together" that this statement just blows my mind.:twitch:
Why have so many rabbits that you can't possibly care for them they way you wish your buyers would?
Who does this? Seriously?I take care of my rabbits the same way as I would, whether I have 1 or 394.The day I can't care for them is the day they leave. I set an example for my buyers, not lecture them not to do whatI do.:?
That's another thing I may be the only one who believes this but I believe if you breed any animal you should try to help out with rescue animals also. After all it is true that for every litter bred- another loses a home or dies.
Um, sorry. But personally, I know that pet overpopulation is not the fault of reputable breeders, so I don't feel the least bit wrong about breeding. Overpopulation is the result of careless pet owners andignorant backyard breeders. Period. Line drawn. Shelters cannot at all be traced back to those who are putting love, time, and exceptional care into their animals.
Erins Rabbits
Well-Known Member
Kudos, OakRidge. I completely agree with everything in the above post.
Happi Bun
Well-Known Member
I'm finding this thread very educating and amusing. Great reading for an otherwise boring night. I have no problem with reputable breeders. Sadly, I have yet to meet one personally. I think it's wonderful these questions are being asked.
:bunny24
:bunny24
BlueCamasRabbitry
Well-Known Member
bunnybunbunb wrote:
I feed veggies/fruits and greens to my bunners. If not daily, at least weekly.
I also disagree, OakRidge, about handling rabbits. Ithink that if you handle thema lot then they will not be jumpy or spooky. My mini rex babies right now are spooky/jumpy because we don't handle them alot. We hold them each day, butnot enough. I'm sure once we hold them more, they will warm up and be muchmore friendly and less jumpy.
Also,I handle myfitting& showing rabbits alot, because they have to be used tothe manueverswe do, and they can't freak out.We're judged on how we handle our rabbits, and we should be able to control them.You achieve this control by working with them and getting them used to be handled.
Yes, while they do get excited to leave/return to their cage, handling makes them more friendlier, more happy, and less spooky/jumpy while you're handling them. If you hold your rabbit in the football hold and turn around so they enter their cage under your arm, it makes for a less excited return.
Irishbunny wrote:
I pay a lot of attention to my rabbits definitely at feeding time and when they're outside playing. Also, when rabbits escape from their pens outdoors, or cause trouble *cough*Sippi*cough, and they come inside, they get one-on-one time with me and my sister, because we talk to them, and interact. We interact with the bunnies when we are feeding, cleaning, etc. And they all will come to the front of their cage, even the babies, to get talked to, get a treat or get pets.
OakRidgeRabbitry wrote:
Veggies are extremely good for rabbits; they provide lots of nutrients that they need. Also, veggies aren't just the only reason why rabbits lose conidition. I don't feed veggies that often, and some of my rabbits are always in awful condition - maybe it's because I don't know how to condition them properly, or all the ways I've tried have failed. I think veggies are an important part of a rabbits diet though.
Emily
How many breeders here feed veggies? I swear, everytime I take in a new rabbit it takes me 5 days to 2 months to get them to even try a vegetable or to eat grass. It makes me so sad
I feed veggies/fruits and greens to my bunners. If not daily, at least weekly.
I also disagree, OakRidge, about handling rabbits. Ithink that if you handle thema lot then they will not be jumpy or spooky. My mini rex babies right now are spooky/jumpy because we don't handle them alot. We hold them each day, butnot enough. I'm sure once we hold them more, they will warm up and be muchmore friendly and less jumpy.
Also,I handle myfitting& showing rabbits alot, because they have to be used tothe manueverswe do, and they can't freak out.We're judged on how we handle our rabbits, and we should be able to control them.You achieve this control by working with them and getting them used to be handled.
Yes, while they do get excited to leave/return to their cage, handling makes them more friendlier, more happy, and less spooky/jumpy while you're handling them. If you hold your rabbit in the football hold and turn around so they enter their cage under your arm, it makes for a less excited return.
Irishbunny wrote:
I let all my rabbits out for playtime, if not daily, at least weekly. In the summer it's more often, because I have more time. I also let the babies run in an outdoor pen, not as large as their cage, but they still get to go outside for fresh air and new sights. Sometimes I'll put them in with mom, but they can't stay in for too long cuz they just want to nibble grass
I pay a lot of attention to my rabbits definitely at feeding time and when they're outside playing. Also, when rabbits escape from their pens outdoors, or cause trouble *cough*Sippi*cough, and they come inside, they get one-on-one time with me and my sister, because we talk to them, and interact. We interact with the bunnies when we are feeding, cleaning, etc. And they all will come to the front of their cage, even the babies, to get talked to, get a treat or get pets.
OakRidgeRabbitry wrote:
Yikes! That really shocked me.....because that's definitely not what I've heard
Veggies are extremely good for rabbits; they provide lots of nutrients that they need. Also, veggies aren't just the only reason why rabbits lose conidition. I don't feed veggies that often, and some of my rabbits are always in awful condition - maybe it's because I don't know how to condition them properly, or all the ways I've tried have failed. I think veggies are an important part of a rabbits diet though. The thing for this is, many breeders don't have the room for rescue animals because they have their breeding animals. If I could, I would have a few fosters, but I just don't have the space. I have extra cages, yeah, but that's for new rabbits/litters, etc. True that you don't have to foster/adopt, you can volunteer, but, once again, many breeders don't have the time to even volunteer because they're busy with their own rabbits.
Emily
CKGS
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the replies. OakRidge, That was a good point about introducing rabbits into your stock that could possibly be carrying something. Please do remember I am learning as I go. As far as breeders just throwing animals together to make a quick buck-we can agree to disagree.
When I said not being able to care for your personal buns the way that buyers are expected- this was NOT directed at anyone. This was a topic I have seen many times in breeders of animals in general.
Suggesting helping out rescue animals does not necessarily mean housing them- you can help out in sooo many waya. With money, time,and/or needs donations.
Again thanks for your time and attention to the questions.
When I said not being able to care for your personal buns the way that buyers are expected- this was NOT directed at anyone. This was a topic I have seen many times in breeders of animals in general.
Suggesting helping out rescue animals does not necessarily mean housing them- you can help out in sooo many waya. With money, time,and/or needs donations.
Again thanks for your time and attention to the questions.
polly
Well-Known Member
I think this is a great thread to try and educate non breeders/ pet owners to how good breeders take care of their rabbits!
I will try and post you a thread later on my sheds. I know some people did comment on the size of my hutches but when yousee full grown nethies in them you can clearly see they have plenty of space
I do still work on the 5 freedoms we have over here for our newish pet laws.
I will tell you I have rabbits who have come from other breeders that are not happy when they are out and do not understand playtime! however a run in the garden soon remedies that and they remeber first and foremost they are rabbits.
I dont find any of my rabbits jumpy from getting to play and they do know the difference between playtime and show time. I have one in particular JIn whp is a showbun through and through however he is also very very cheeky and loves a run around!
I also understand that people may get rabbits and for the first month or 2 they get loads of attention then it peters off so I try to recomend pairs of perhaps a slightly older rabbit who can be dressed and a younger one.
I will try and address this thread a bit more later right now I have to go sort out my sheds and my shop lol
I will try and post you a thread later on my sheds. I know some people did comment on the size of my hutches but when yousee full grown nethies in them you can clearly see they have plenty of space
I do still work on the 5 freedoms we have over here for our newish pet laws.
I will tell you I have rabbits who have come from other breeders that are not happy when they are out and do not understand playtime! however a run in the garden soon remedies that
and they remeber first and foremost they are rabbits.I dont find any of my rabbits jumpy from getting to play and they do know the difference between playtime and show time. I have one in particular JIn whp is a showbun through and through however he is also very very cheeky and loves a run around!
I also understand that people may get rabbits and for the first month or 2 they get loads of attention then it peters off so I try to recomend pairs of perhaps a slightly older rabbit who can be dressed and a younger one.
I will try and address this thread a bit more later right now I have to go sort out my sheds and my shop lol
whaleyk98
Well-Known Member
Isnt this the Rabbitry section? Why do I see this topic taking a slight turn towards a breeder bash fest? You know, us as breeders do what is best and what we think is right to take the best possible care of our animals. I will leave it at that. :apollo:
Starlight Rabbitry
Well-Known Member
CKGS wrote:
This is exactly the definition of a Backyard Breeder.
A Responsible Breeder uses good judgment when picking a buck and a doe to breed. Most breeders have astandard and they breed to meet that standard. Some are breeding for better type, others for better heads, markings, or whatever they feel their rabbits are lacking.
They breed to better the breed. I, for one, breed Dutch to better the Dutch around here. Not that they are bad, but I notice things and try to breed for the better. For example, if I am getting beaten on the show table because my rabbits lack round heads, I will try to bring in animals with better heads to breed to my own stock to try to better my heads.
Hopefully that makes sense. Every RESPONSIBLE breeder, breeds to better their breed.
Sharon
This is exactly the definition of a Backyard Breeder.
A Responsible Breeder uses good judgment when picking a buck and a doe to breed. Most breeders have astandard and they breed to meet that standard. Some are breeding for better type, others for better heads, markings, or whatever they feel their rabbits are lacking.
They breed to better the breed. I, for one, breed Dutch to better the Dutch around here. Not that they are bad, but I notice things and try to breed for the better. For example, if I am getting beaten on the show table because my rabbits lack round heads, I will try to bring in animals with better heads to breed to my own stock to try to better my heads.
Hopefully that makes sense. Every RESPONSIBLE breeder, breeds to better their breed.
Sharon
