Questions about breeding bonded rabbits

[tashiahouse]

I got two bonded Hollands for my birthday. I was told they were both bucks...come to find out, they're both does. I should clarify that there was no bonding process..they were just raised together from day one (sisters). My questions are...would you breed them?, would you use one nesting box, or two?, and would you separate them or leave them in one cage? They appear to adore each other. They spend most of their days grooming each other. Basically, my main concern is would the breeding process be so stressful on them that they wouldn't be able to be re bonded or should they be okay? I have 0 experience breeding bonded rabbits.

 

[lelanatty]

That is a very interesting situation. I have friend who got two Jersey Woolies who were sisters and bonded just like that. They couldn't stand to be out of each others sight. Coming from someone who also has 0 experience breeding bonded rabbits, I would give it a try. I would most definitely use two nestboxes, and I also would definitely separate them into two different cages, but put their cages right next to each other so that they still have contact. I believe that is what my friend is doing with her two now. I am not sure of her success rate though as it has been a while since I have seen her. It would also probably be best if you separate them before you breed them, so that they get used to one change at a time and the stress from being separated during pregnancy doesn't cause them to have litter complications-- which it may do that anyway.

So there is my very humble opinion.

 

[Yield]

I have never heard of this before! That's a crazy situation you got there.. In my opinion, I would be kind of afraid that one bun might mess with the other's litter, or they might become overprotective and fight.. but I don't know. I'm not an expert... I wish you luck, and I hope someone more experienced comes along and tells what they think.

 

[Sabine]

My two breeding does ended up bonding after they had settled and I kept them in the same cage even when they were bred. There was no problem whatsoever. They seemed to be joined at the hip and I couldn't face separating them. After the first one kindled I noticed that she started mounting the other one (still pregnant). I took it as a sign and separated them at that stage. I have tried to rebond them since and they absolutely hate each other. They unbonded within a few days.
Basically if you are hoping to rebond them after it may not go as smoothly. Best is watch their behaviour carefully if you notice any change in the dynamics.

 

[countrybuns]

I would say that it depends on how much you care if they stay bonded. If you are interested in keeping the bond strong breeding could mess with that but if seperating them (should it be needed)isn't an issue then go for it.

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

Two nest boxes... It's colony breeding, in a sense. There's actually three or four people on another site I'm on that swear by it. I'll PM you, so I'm not outwardly advertising...

They'd probably be quite the help, since they've been into it for quite some time. 8D

 

[TinysMom]

Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote:

Two nest boxes... It's colony breeding, in a sense. There's actually three or four people on another site I'm on that swear by it. I'll PM you, so I'm not outwardly advertising...

They'd probably be quite the help, since they've been into it for quite some time. 8D

I don't suppose you could get them to come here and share about it. I find the topic quite fascinating...

I once had two does that shared a cage - one got pregnant - the other one didn't take.

The mama would feed her babies and go off to play (when I had them in more of a colony setting) - and the other doe would sit there and guard the babies. Both does got along fine...

I forget why the babies died - I think they were really small to begin with so I knew there was a chance they wouldn't make it.

But those babies would've had two loving mamas.....even if only one nursed.

 

[TinysMom]

Yield wrote:

I have never heard of this before! That's a crazy situation you got there.. In my opinion, I would be kind of afraid that one bun might mess with the other's litter, or they might become overprotective and fight.. but I don't know. I'm not an expert... I wish you luck, and I hope someone more experienced comes along and tells what they think.

I just remembered - a lionhead breeder friend did have this happen - the mom and daughter were bonded - she bred both - both had their babies together in their super huge cage in separate nest boxes and the babies grew up together. (She had marked in their ears which litter was which).

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

TinysMom wrote:

Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote:

Two nest boxes... It's colony breeding, in a sense. There's actually three or four people on another site I'm on that swear by it. I'll PM you, so I'm not outwardly advertising...

They'd probably be quite the help, since they've been into it for quite some time. 8D

I don't suppose you could get them to come here and share about it. I find the topic quite fascinating...

I once had two does that shared a cage - one got pregnant - the other one didn't take.

The mama would feed her babies and go off to play (when I had them in more of a colony setting) - and the other doe would sit there and guard the babies. Both does got along fine...

I forget why the babies died - I think they were really small to begin with so I knew there was a chance they wouldn't make it.

But those babies would've had two loving mamas.....even if only one nursed.

I'll make a post about it on their forum, and see if they might be into it.

 

[Anntann]

Greetings! I'm from the other forum, and thought I'd hop over and give you my take on this i'll be brief to start, and if you have questions, go for it!

I have 4 angora does in an indoor 8'x8' colony. Three were raised together, and have never had problems (not siblings...just raised together). I had Chuck, my buck, in with them for 3 weeks...no problems...he just became one of the pack and they hung around together grooming each other. (and breeding)

3 weeks later I removed Chuck, and put in 2 nest "tunnels" plywood tunnels, 3' long by 1' square..opening on the end of one side; and 1 nest box.

They all chose the same tunnel as to kindle in! Two does kindled on Wed, 1 doe on Thursday morning. Three nests, but after a couple of days the kits were in one big nest.

Mommas shared feeding duties....A doe would go in, and whoever was hungry got fed. I lost ONE out of 15 kits. (a runt who never had a chance).

Two of the does had kindled together last Fall...they were in a smaller shared pen at that time. 3x6. Filled up with straw and a couple of nest boxes. They shared a nestbox that time, too. Shared feeding duties. As I watched them over the first month (had a bunny cam watching them) CB (chocolate bunny) went in at approx 5am; then FLB at 10ish; then CB again at 4pmish; then FLB at 10pmish. They had 10 kits between them, all survived and were fat little things.

 

[TinysMom]

Anntann,

This is absolutely fascinating. I have one question though - how were you able to tell whose kits belonged to which doe? I'm thinking for pedigree purposes, etc.

Were the does different colors or something?

This is so awesome....do you have photos?

 

[Anntann]

THIS is a link to a photobucket album of various bunnies in the colony. And this is a link to the picture of the nesttunnels in the colony. There used to be some ceramic chimney tunnels in the colony for them to play on, run through. but the nest tunnels turned into a playground after the kits emerged.

Telling the whose is whose. Difficult if you don't catch them early and check the nests, I think. So far I've been very lucky with the girls kindling almost while I watched. CB's kits are always HUGE. FLB's kits are usually longer in the body and may have white paws. Vienna is a blue tort and appears to throw a LOT of blue torts, and the kits are generally smaller than anyone else's.

This last time I found the nests right away, and counted and noted down any colors that were apparent. Then I marked CBs kits with a dab of nail polish. Vienna's were all three blue tort and very small.

It would probably be easier, if I was REALLY concerned about screwing up the pedigrees, by having the does visit the buck...and staggering the breedings.

I did see in this last kindling that the 4th doe, who was NOT bred (she was out of the colony..I thought she was too young to breed at only 5 months)...when she was returned to the colony after Chuck left, she was integrated right away, and she became "auntie Hannah". Earlier, Vienna had not kindled in the Fall, and she was a long suffering Auntie Vienna. The kits would follow her around trying to nurse. :biggrin: She was very very patient with them...just hopping away and jumping up onto a tub to get away.

Watching the rabbits interact is fascinating. They really enjoy grooming each other, and paling around.

If both of your does are bred at the same time, I would probably give them the option of having 2 nest boxes. I do know that in outside colonies, where they can burrow, then make their own burrows...they might clean out an old burrow or re-use one..but I haven't heard of any sharing like I've had with this crew.

 

[Anntann]

We have another member on our forum who has rabbits in an indoor (like horse stalls) colony on cement floors. She brings does to the buck, I think, and then provides nest tunnels for them to kindle in.

There was another lady who has a huge number of rabbits in a full blown colony setup, under hoop tents, with a floor so they can't burrow out. LONG and narrow. She says that gives the rabbits the ability to run away from each other and get out of range of a rampaging mother! She is not concerned with pedigrees, nor really with ages. I believe that her rabbits occasionally share a nest, too.

 

[TinysMom]

I have got to say that this is so awesome - for about 2 years I had 30+ lionhead does and a couple of other does that lived together on the rabbitry floor. When I would breed them - I would usually put them in a cage shortly before delivery (except for one doe who delivered early - she's the one who shared a cage with another doe).

I had a shelf that cages sat on and they hung out under the shelves - in two dog kennels that had shelves and sometimes on empty cages that sat on the shelf (the bottom layer).

I loved it because the does had "best friends" and you'd see certain ones hang out together in different places during the day - and as soon as they heard us fill the food bucket - they'd go running to their feeding spots (which might be different than their playing spots sometimes).

It was so much fun to see them in a colony and watch the relationships and interactions.

I miss it.

(Animal Control was called on us and that was the first thing that had to go).

I will admit it was hard to keep the area clean and odor-free even with sweeping it every day or every other day....the girls just would poop EVERYWHERE. I don't miss that.

But it is so cool to see someone else doing this....it must be so much fun.

 

[Sabine]

I am really fascinated by this topic and it's given me new ideas. I almost had two does kindle together in one cage but I chickened out after the first one had her litter. As they were my first two brood does I was very precious about them (still am) and I was just terrified by horrifying stories of babies getting mutilated etc...
I also believe ample space is the key to successful breeding in groups. At the time they were sharing a 4 ft hutch and although they are NDs I wasn't sure if that was enough for 2 does with their litters. Since I separated the two does one has gone very moody and is also not conceiving. I would really like her to have a companion again and maybe not separate the next time I breed.

 

[Anntann]

I suspect that a LOT of problems are from crowding, and from the does not feeling secure in their setup.

Most does in a colony will defend their burrows/tunnels quite vigorously. Usually they fill up the entrance with straw/hay/grass/whatever they can find..it keeps the kits IN and the predators OUT (well, not really out, but it hides the entrance)

With my girls I saw CB go in to kindle...and when she came out, she took a HUGE amount of hay/straw from the colony floor and stuffed it in the entrance. Then FLB went in to kindle..she dug a hole in the entrance plug, squeezed in, kindled, then refilled that entrance. The next day, Vienna did exactly the same thing.

They kept the very tip top of the pile open so they could go in and out to feed. When I opened the top of the box (the end of it is hinged to open so I can check the kits) all three does came over to me to watch what I was doing. Each TIME I opened it up.

I think that if I had two does who were bonded, I would let them remain in the same large cage, with a large nestbox, and see how it goes. The stress of losing a bonded friend/mate might tip the scales when they kindle. How often have you heard not to move the expectant doe because she can lose the kits? Stress seems to be VERY hard on rabbits. Perhaps they react to stressors because they're prey animals..and need to be extra careful with ANY changes.

 

[JadeIcing]

Just wanted to say having fun reading this thread.

 

[Sabine]

I was lucky when I removed my doe from her bonded friend to kindle she had no problems but she rejected her babies by 6 weeks and has been moody ever since. Today I reintroduced her to her daughter who is on her own now as I sold her sister yesterday. It's going rather smoothly and I am getting the large 5 ft hutch organized for them to hopefully spend the night together. It would be great if they could have their next litters together.

 

[bunnyranch]

I've never thought of it this way before. This is exactly what we do with our female rabbits. I'd like to post some pics upon the thread owners permission. I have 4 NZ does and one black unknown. We just call it, as a joke, free range bunnies .

 

[TinysMom]

I'm not the thread owner -but as a moderator - I say "sure" - go for it.

We hijack threads all the time with photos and stuff and still have fun...plus it sounds like your photos would be on target and not even hijacking!