Question(s) on Balance Between Hay and Other Foods...

[Jenk]

Does anyone know if it's possible for stasis to occurif a bun eats a good amount of leafy greens and, as a result, less hay? Can the extra moisture prove non-helpful if the bun isn't eating enough fibrous hay?

I'm still trying to determine the cause of my one bun's repeated stasis (and even the initial cause).

Someone suggested that I cut back the amount of greens that I feed her, so as to encourage her to eat more hay and drink more water. I'm on day #4 of this newregimen and will seehow it may affecther fecal output (though I realize that her digestive system may be somewhat hooked now on Reglan ). I'm trying to remain hopeful, though.

Thank you,

Jenk

 

[Flashy]

I just tried to reply to this thread and accidently put you on ignore. NOT a good start, lol. (Rest assured you are fully unignored now).

I am talking from an extreme point now, but when Sweep was illhe stopped eating hay, and mainly ate wet leafy greens and his poos went from being a classic poo, to being darker, smaller, and more moist. We had to use Fibreplex tp keep him fully out of stasis. Yes he had other problems but the lack of hay definitely did make a difference to his output.

 

[Jenk]

Flashy wrote:

I just tried to reply to this thread and accidently put you on ignore. NOT a good start, lol. (Rest assured you are fully unignored now).

I hadn't even noticed; no harm, no foul. :biggrin2: (I once accidentally did the same to another member and quickly fixedmy boo-boo.)

I am talking from an extreme point now, but when Sweep was illhe stopped eating hay, and mainly ate wet leafy greens and his poos went from being a classic poo, to being darker, smaller, and more moist. We had to use Fibreplex tp keep him fully out of stasis. Yes he had other problems but the lack of hay definitely did make a difference to his output.

I didn't measureEmma's greens but wonder if eating more of them (and 1-2 Tbsp.'s worth of pellets) reduced her hay intake enough to cause her first bout of stasis this past spring. (If so, that would mean that even without pellets for months now, she was likely being fed too many greens.)

Your description of Sweep's poop exactly matches how Emma's looked before (and a long while after) her first stasis bout. It's been that way for each stasis bout, too, which likely means that she stopped eating enough hay (but less than a truly noticeable/measureable amount ).

Now, her fecals are muchlighter in color and fibrous-looking; I'm keeping a close watch on her water consumption (and fecal size/qty.) to ensure that they don't become too dry. I've been feeding her muchless greens (maybe 1/4-1/2 C.), hoping that this change makes a difference.Oh, please, oh, please, oh, please...

 

[Hazel-Mom]

Well, all I can sy is that my own rabbit, Hazel,has been eating mostly greens for almost 6 years now. She eats little to no grass hay, only dried herbs and leaves. She also eats few pellets. And hardly drinks, she gets most of her water from her veggies and fresh greens.
She has never had stasis in her life. She had a GI slowdown twice in 6 years, and both times got better in a day or two. The second time (just a week ago) she had gass and improved almost immediately after a few doses of symethicone. She never stopped eating or drinking completely either times.
So from experience I can say that at least some rabbits can do very well on lots of greens and little hay.

 

[TinysMom]

Wow - I feel like a bad mama now...

Every once in a while - Miss Bea has some small poos that are dark. I have no idea why. I give her a bit of lettuce or something and push some hay and the poos just sorta become normal.

I mean...I don't worry about it or stress about it....I just try to get her eating something and then play around with it a bit.....usually though I'll give her some hay or I might give her some baby food/pumpkin (which she loves) and her poos will go back to normal.

Am I doing something wrong...? I tend to think not since the poos just sorta go back to normal - she usually has regular poos but sometimes she's just a bit off.

Then again - she's been like that for most of the time I've had her - there are just times when she's "off" a tiny bit...and then she gets better....

 

[pamnock]

There are many other sources of fiber (including greens & veggies), so hay is not a "must have". Too much hay (fiber) interferes with the absorption of important nutrients, so you don't want to go overboard with the hay anyhow.

Pam

 

[Hazel-Mom]

Tinysmom, You are a GREAT bunny mommy! Don't feel bad about how you feed your buns, they all have a good life with you!
Bunnies are just as different as people, no one diet works for all. White Chocolate for instance did eat much more hay than Hazel, and she also loved pellets.
So even in the same household, we had 2 buns with different diets. I just wanted to post Hazel's, so Jenk wouldn't worry so much abouther bunny's diet .

And yes, her poos have always been smaller than White Chocolate's were, but she's lived like this for 6 years now, so I wouldn't worry about that one bit. As long as they are still pooping, it's fine.

 

[dquesnel]

TinysMom wrote:

Wow - I feel like a bad mama now...

Every once in a while - Miss Bea has some small poos that are dark. I have no idea why. I give her a bit of lettuce or something and push some hay and the poos just sorta become normal.

Am I doing something wrong...? I tend to think not since the poos just sorta go back to normal - she usually has regular poos but sometimes she's just a bit off.

In my opinion this is normal- the temporary change in poop size/color. Small dark poos don't ALWAYS mean stasis is brewing. My guys get small dark poos after a veggies meal, the poos change again after other foods also. I suspect too that hormones can change a poo color/texture- I haven't seen anything written up about this but I suspect it to be true from experience. An unaltered rabbit with hormones may have 'phases' of poop change, so to speak

I don't worry too much until the poops change in shape from round to tear drop shape. This in my experience has often been a good indication of hair/food mass in the stomach and potential stasis.

Now for a response to Jenk's original post- "if it's possible for stasis to occurif a bun eats a good amount of leafy greens and, as a result, less hay? Can the extra moisture prove non-helpful if the bun isn't eating enough fibrous hay?"

I think anything is possible. However, I don't think eating more greens prevents a rabbit from eating sufficient hay. It has been proven in most rabbits I know actually that as greens increase, the rabbit's appetite in general increases. I don't know if it is because of the vitamins in the greens (mainly vit B) or because they receive more energy from the greens.

In my opinion, for a bun that has consistent stasis, I think moisture in the gut is the most important. Many rabbits that eat greens a couple times a day may barely touch their water since they are getting so much hydration from the greens. But a rabbit that is a hay burner will make regular trips to the water dish- the hay dries out their mouths I think.

As for the Reglan, she can definitely still come off it. Just taper as per the vets instructions, if she seems to be getting worse you can put her back on and try again later.

I don't know what the right thing to do with Emma's diet, except that I think keeping it consistent for a period of time may be the solution. It appears some rabbits may take MONTHS of an extremely consistent diet to settle down. Both my boys and my neighbour's rabbits got through really huge molts with diets that weren't special- they were just consistent, and when the fecals inevitably decreased in size due to the enormous amount of hair they were ingesting we increased greens ever so slightly, cut down on pellets slightly and now they are right as rain.

BTW- its no coincidence 5 rabbits blew their coats at the same time- the building turned on the central heating and its been like a furnace in here for the past several weeks! Poor buns. Having a cool mist humidifyer seems to help the humans and buns somewhat though, lol.

Keep us posted. I just have a suspicion that keeping diet consistent for Emma may be key to seeing a difference. Keep persistent, it may take weeks to see a difference but if you keep thinks consistent and persist I suspect something may settle.

 

[Jenk]

dquesnel wrote:

In my opinion this is normal- the temporary change in poop size/color. Small dark poos don't ALWAYS mean stasis is brewing. My guys get small dark poos after a veggies meal, the poos change again after other foods also....

I don't worry too much until the poops change in shape from round to tear drop shape. This in my experience has often been a good indication of hair/food mass in the stomach and potential stasis.

The last time of Emma's early slowdown, though, the vet said that her gut sounds were spaced nearly one minute apart. :shock: That seems rather drastic to me for a bun whose fecals were decreased in size for only 24 hours'.

...I don't think eating more greens prevents a rabbit from eating sufficient hay. It has been proven in most rabbits I know actually that as greens increase, the rabbit's appetite in general increases. I don't know if it is because of the vitamins in the greens (mainly vit B) or because they receive more energy from the greens.

In Emma's case, she eats her greens very well; she usuallyeats her hay pretty well. But her fecals turn small(half their normal size) on a dime, it seems. And that's with no major dietary changes. (Granted, dietary changes this past spring, along with a heavy shed,seemed to spark the first stasis bout.)

In my opinion, for a bun that has consistent stasis, I think moisture in the gut is the most important. Many rabbits that eat greens a couple times a day may barely touch their water since they are getting so much hydration from the greens. But a rabbit that is a hay burner will make regular trips to the water dish- the hay dries out their mouths I think.

She definitely drinks more water from her crock when I feed her less greens. When she was eating 1-1.5 C./day, she continued having repeated stasis; now I'm going to try a bit less greens and just see if she consumes more hay/water as a result. Of course, I also want to see if more hay/water (from a crock) decreases (or even ends) her stasis woes.

As for the Reglan, she can definitely still come off it. Just taper as per the vets instructions, if she seems to be getting worse you can put her back on and try again later.

I just worrybecause she's been on it five times within six months'.Yet I fear thatif I just try to "wait out" a slowdown, she'll wind up back in the hospital. (Neither my heart, nor my pocketbook, can continue down that path.)

I don't know what the right thing to do with Emma's diet, except that I think keeping it consistent for a period of time may be the solution. It appears some rabbits may take MONTHS of an extremely consistent diet to settle down.

Her diet's been fairly consistent for aspell now, but I'm still going to cut back on the amount of greens that I feed her--especially lettuce. If her fecals get too dry, I'll increase the greens slightly to see the effect.

The vet suggested that if she hits another stasis bout, perhaps I should cut her back to one type of green (e.g., parsley) and feed that--along with hay--for 6-8 weeks' before adding in another green.

Keep us posted. I just have a suspicion that keeping diet consistent for Emma may be key to seeing a difference. Keep persistent, it may take weeks to see a difference but if you keep thinks consistent and persist I suspect something may settle.

I'd thought that I was being consistent, but I don't know anymore. I mean, I introduced endive to her diet (very s-l-o-w-l-y) a while back but have since stopped feeding it, in case it affected her latest stasis bout. But who knows?