Question on Kidney Failure (RIP)

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Kamaor

Kamaor

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Joined
Jan 6, 2008
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Location
Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Kirby has taken a sudden downward turn He slowed down his food consumption midweek last week and I thought it was tummy issues so I gave him pedialyte and baby gas med to get him going again, Sat morning he seemed to be eating greens but still no hay but drinking. I was still giving him the pedialyte but by last night he wasn't eating anything but what I was forcing him to baby food, pumpkin, pedialyte.
His urine had started to run clear on Sat night. When we got to the vet this morning and she ran a blood test on him his C & B numbers are off the charts over 140 and 8.45. She told me his kidney's are failing and she didn't think there was anything that could be done to turn it around. She did give him Sub-Q fluids and he was somewhat perkier when we got home.

I guess what I'm asking is can these numbers be turned around without a lot of money spent at the vet for heroics that aren't going to do anything.
I'm still feeding him all of the above stuff including pineapple juice. He is a little guy at only 3+lbs so it's hard to tell how much is too much he will take some but then he just lets the rest run out.

I'm prepared for the worst but would really like a miracle about now.
Thanks
Karen
 
I probably shouldn't be the one to respond as I am not an infirmary mod, but I just lost my little girl, Luna, to kidney stones/failure.

The only thing you can really do is provide your little guy with fluids (sub-q). That will help to flush out the toxins that are building up in his blood stream because his kidneys are not filtering properly. That is the reason your bunny perked up after the fluids your vet administered. You would probably have to do fluids at least once a day if he is advanced to an end-stage. It will only be comfort measures....

So sorry for the diagnosis.

Edit to ask... Did they do x-rays to make sure he didn't have stones in his bladder or kidneys? Bladder stones could pass or be removed. Kidney stones are terminal.

myheart

 
Sorry to hear about Luna, No they didn't do x-rays as the counts where so high she didn't feel that there was anything they could do regardless of what they found because he seemed so lethargic.

Did you give the sub-q fluids or did you have to take her Luna in?

Thanks for replying by the way.:hug:

I did find a local source for Critical Care and started him on this today as well.
If he makes it through the night I will call back tomorrow and see about getting some fluids to inject. He is such a little trooper that whatever I can do to help him fight the fight I will.
 
I gave her the sub-q's myself. Some days it was very difficult to do, and other days it went like clock-work. The good needle-stick days were the best days because I knew she would be comfortable until the next time I had to give the fluids and neither of us was stressed over the experience.

I did have the bag of fluids to do the drip. I know others are given a syringe to push the fluids in. Personally, I preferred the bag with the amount I had to give. If all went well, it only took about four or five minutes out of our lives, a blackberry or two for a reward, and Luna was off and running again with her bond-mates.

Sending prayers to you and Kirby. :pray:

myheart

 
Hi Karen,

Is there any way you can send me a copy of the lab? Sometimes with rabbits, things are not what they appear on paper. I would also suggest having an EC titer done on the blood...just to see. Was a urinalysis performed to see what is actually in there? I have had rabbits in renal failure for a couple of years and provided a high quality of life right up until the end. We see renal failure in EC positive rabbits due to pitting from shedding spores. If bladder sludge or stones are the problem....those can be treated. Stone are not terminal....a few years ago maybe, but in the hands of a skilled vet..they are very treatable and sometimes without surgery.

I would certainly start on supplemental fluids to support the renal system. I would base my decision on the type of fluid (hypertonic or isotonic) based on a complete lab. I would look closely at the diet and try to limit any part of it that might stress the kidneys...particularly high proteins. Stick to basics as much as possible while maintaining body conditioning. And pain meds might be of help here. I would have to give serious thought to the renal issue in choosing a drug. In this case, I might would use a NSAID if I could maintain hydration just due to the anti-inflammatory properties. A low end dosing of Tramadol might be good. A little injection of B Comp can help out too. You might also want to acidify his system just a bit. Ascorbic acid (water soluble Vitamin C) or cranberry extract might be of help here too. This might need to be reconsidered if an infection is isolated and antibiotics are needed.

And I personally have some concerns over the dedication of your vet. While I fully respect their opinion when it comes to quality of life issues, and that is something to seriously consider.....I have seen rabbits right here in my rescue make huge recoveries if treated properly. But honestly, especially if the kidneys are damaged from pitting, there is a limit on how much you can support them and when that time comes, a decision will need to be made. I would get as much clinical information and seek a second opinion regarding quality of life. You are in my thoughts....a difficult situation.

Randy
 
Thanks Randy I'm going to get back in tomorrow and see about getting more Sub -Q and I'll take a copy of your suggestions and see what I can do. Dr Richmond is really pretty open to any info and help. Unfortunately the better Vet in the area had priced himself to the point that it cost more for a rabbit then it did for me for medical treatment. He then sold his practice to some clinic and went to work for Science Diet. Dr Richmond used to work for him and was always my favorite. I think her thought process is somewhat based on how much it would cost to treat him as I am on a very fixed budget. None of the local vets are considered exotics unfortunately. The only other one that I could think of that would see a lot of rabbits is the Banefield clinic in the local Petsmart. but I truly don't know how competent they would be either.

He is taking Critical Care every couple of hours and I'm giving him pedialyte as well. I did see him drink out of his water dish but as for actual eating he hasn't .

Thanks again for your help and I will send you anything I can get tomorrow if he makes it through the night.
 
If your vet is willing to do this....I would be glad to talk to her about this situation. The only stipulation I have is that your doctor has to know that I am not a vet. Our Yoda was in renal failure for over two years. My vet also was concerned about quality of life and we thought the end was very near for himbut she also knew we had the dedication and the skills to support him. And cost was certainly a concern....as sad as that is to say so I understand that too. My doctor's feeling was that we could do as much or more than they could in the clinic. I learned a lot about EC and renal failure with Yoda. It is something we have become very good at working with. The lessons learned with Yoda have helped other rabbits with renal failure and have also led to some very effective hydration protocols for wildlife....and when you are handling huge raptors, you needto know how to do it...quickly and effectively. The big thing to remember is that battling renal failure is like playing a video game....no matter how good you are, eventually you lose the game....and that is true with renal failure. Eventually the time will come where no matter what you do to support the kidneys, they will collapse. Let me know if I can help you or your vet in any way in treating Kirby.
 
You've gotten responses from the two most experienced people in rabbit kidney failure on the board already, so I don't have a lot to add. Once a rabbit does into renal failure, it's about making them comfortable. We can't do things like dialysis or kidney transplants on rabbits, so there is no real treatment. Sub-Q fluids and pain meds are going to be helpful to decrease painful symptoms.

There are a few links about renal failure on this thread:
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12052&forum_id=10

It may be worthwhile to consider other causes of renal failure rather than just kidney disease, like EC or stones as Randy and Janet said. EC is treatable and some stones can be removed.

[[big hugs to you and kirby]]
 
Well We put up a good fight but Kirby died in my arms last night at 11:30 I'm going to miss him more then most as he always made me laugh just by looking at his fuzzy face.:rip:
 
I am so sorry for your loss. :tears2: It will always be the worst news anyone could everypost on the forum if their bunny develops kidney problems. After everything Luna and I went through, I am glad I had the few extra months to spend with her. I hope you are able to cherish the good memories of Kirby as you heal from his loss. :hug:

Binky-free little Kirby :rainbow:

myheart
 
I'm so sorry. He left you knowing he was loved and had a great life. You did the best you could for him.
 
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