question for the 'bunny judge'

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panacrent

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Im very curious about the fun dewlaps that ive seen on fauna and elf lately (courtesy of the pretty pics from their mommies).

what do you know about the physiology of a bunny's dewlap? do most rabbits have them or all or few?? how come they are there?

angie doesnt have anything there, really, but shes so small and youngstill. will she 'grow' one? do they even 'grow' or are they born withthem??

sorry thats more than one question! :p:D

if you have a link with abunch of information or answers id love to see them.


 
I think it does develop as a doe ages, and Ithink it has something to do with the doe's propensity to "pull fur" toline her nest when she isabout to have kittens. Itis nature's way of providing a lot of fur in a convenient location forher to access.

You breeder types out there might have a better, or more accurate, take on that question.

Buck

Oops, I think the "bunny judge" means you, Pam! Sorry!

 
I think you're right Buck. And I do believe it's a place to store excess fat that they may need when they are mothers.

Also, over weight bucks can have dewlaps! It's a storage of excess fat but is not always present on bucks.
 
heehee, im sure pam doesnt mind you helping out Buck. :)

so angie will get one someday, then, huh? i think she'd look silly, butmaybe its because i cant imagine her as anything bigger than apound!:shock: plus, im thinking of fauna and elf, who might be biggerthan angie will ever get.:p

very interesting news so far, thanks :)
 
panacrent wrote:
heehee, im sure pam doesnt mind you helping out Buck. :)


Not in the least :)

The dewlap appears to be an inherited tendency that affects theelasticity and connective tissue of the skin, resulting in a pendulousfold of skin under the chin most commonly in older or over weight does.

The dewlap serves no real purpose. A doe doesn't need theadditional fur to make a nest, it has no purpose in courtship as itreally doesn't impress anyone, but it does make a comfortable "pillow"for bunny to rest her head on.

A dewlap is a disqualification in some breeds.

"Wet Dewlap" is a bacterial infection from moisture trapped on the skin-- not uncommon from rabbits dragging the dewlap through their waterbowl. The Pseudomonas bacteria can cause a green, slimyinfection on the skin, hence the common name "green chin".

That's about the extent of what I know about dewlaps ;)

Pam
 
Any mutation or inherited trait is often relatedto other body systems. There's probably thousands ofmutations that serve no specific purpose -- mutations are simplymistakes or "damage" during the replication of DNA. Mosthappened millions of years ago before organisms were specialized andbefore DNA was very stable. The primitive organism couldsurvive despite numerous mutations, where is present times, mutationsare usually fatal to the organism.

There are numerous mutations alone that effect the elasticity andconnective tissueof skin. One extreme example isthe wrinkled shar pei dogs. That saggy skin that women getunder their arms is another, and I'm sure you've seen those "turkeywaddles" under a womans chin. I'll never have a turkey waddleas the genetic predisposition isn't there -- so no"dewlap"for me.

How about the "big butt" gene? Yes, there is indeeda mutation where the posterior grows to enormous proportions.(Now I really can't think of any good reason that we would need such ahuge butt!)

Male baldness is another genetic anomaly that is sex controlled and serves no specific purpose.

I'd better stop now . . . I spoke for 2 hours theother night aboutcoat color genetics of rabbits and they hada hard time shutting me up LOL

Pam
 
I don't know that I would want you to stop, butif I may continue to ask? I mean an anomaly that cuts clearacross and entire species(breed?, maybe I'm using incorrect terminologyhere)), in that all females demonstate it, as opposed to some femalesof that species(breed, variety,etc?) demonstrating it sometimes?

I tended to think male pattern baldness was, by and large, connected toage, and diminishing hormones, of one sort or another, for one rarelysees bald young men. I don't expect all Italianwomen to have a big butt, for example, because I have seen several withthat propensity.

Of those rabbit breeds that demonstrate dewlaps, do all manifest it,most, some, or few? If all, or most, where is therea direct comparison in nature...is what I am asking? I'm notlooking for a mutation so, perhaps, anomaly is an incorrect choice ofterminlogy. I mean, a physical trait, such as adewlap.



Buck
 
If I'm correctly understanding the question . . .

Few will manifest it in breeds that DQ a dewlap, as less of thoseanimals would be used for breeding as opposed to breeds where it is nota DQ. Therefore, the chance of inheriting the tendency of adewlap is higher in certain breeds.

Smaller breeds exhibit less of a dewlap do the larger ones although wehave a grand champion Holland Lop doe with 12 legs that suddenlydeveloped a huge, pendulous dewlap (a large dewlap is a fault inHollands).

In the wild, a large dewlap is not a common physical trait.Darwin had made some observations on the dewlaps of selectively bredlops, many of which exhibited large dewlaps and had made the notationin his writings that the "dewlap was not strictly inherited"(indicating that the development of a dewlap is multifactoral).

What I've found interesting is the fact that Darwin noted the largestdewlaps in the English Lops -- a breed known for malformations of thebreast bone such as "funnel" and "pigeon" breast. A geneticform of Cutis laxa (loose skin)is associated with thosedeformities. Loose stools is another health problemassociated with this connective tissue disorder. There aremany different forms of Cutis laxa (including lethal forms) that can beinherited ina number ofdifferent ways. Ibelieve a form of this defective gene plays a role in the developmentof a dewlap as well as other factors including being overweight.

Dr. Cramer, plastic surgeon from WI . . .

Q. Why do some people get a "turkey gobbler" neck?

"A. Genetics! Unfortunately, some inherit a genetic tendencyfor excessive looseness of the neck skin combined with excessive fat inthe neck. This is very difficult since diet and exercise willnot change the genetic cards that were dealt."

Male pattern baldness is an inherited X-linkedgene. It can occur in females, just less often as it isinherited in a way that is recessive in females and acts as a dominantin males.

QUOTE: Actually the fact that male pattern baldness is a result of a gene
passed on from the mother has been known well before the big push for the
human genome project. Also, male pattern baldness is NOT a dominant
autosomal gene. In fact it is a recessive gene on the X chromosome (sex
chromosome). If you are a male you have one X chromosome and one Y
chromosome. Thus, for males, if you have one X chromosome and the recessive
gene on that X chromosome you will have pattern baldness (or whatever
recessive trait).
Females can have pattern baldness as well but they would need
recessive alleles (alternate form of a gene)on both of their X chromosomes
(again females are XX and males are XY,) this is why baldness in women is
rare. Females at least have that extra X to save them from a recessive
allele on the other chromosome.
If you remember each parent donates one sex chromosome to their
offspring. Thus if you are a male we KNOW the Y chromosome came from your
father (because in humans it is the sperm from the male that determins the
sex of the offspring - males make both X and Y carrying sperm)and the X
came from your mother. The allele for pattern baldness is carried on the X
chromosome that means you would inherit pattern baldness from your mother.

Michael S. Robeson II - geneticist



So . . . . my conclusion is that the dewlap is an inherited trait that serves no practical purpose. :)

Pam

ps -- told youI was loooooooooong winded LOL








 
Izzy has a big dewlap (Holland...) and her daughter Pandemonium has one too...I didn't know that was a DQ for Hollands!

It's not for Giants and Pals though, right? They seem to have huge ones.

Rose
 
Hi Pam,

What I've always meant to ask you about for the longest time is theskirt that does have. Missy has it, Fauna has it. It's the fur betweenthe tail and the legs that doesn't wrap next to the body like a male's,but instead fluffs out and Buck and the Mrs. call it a skirt.

What's that all about?


* * * * * * * * * * * *

Panacrent,

Bless your heart for noticing Fauna-girl! Great post.

-Carolyn
 
rabbitgirl wrote:
Izzy has a big dewlap (Holland...) and her daughterPandemonium has one too...I didn't know that was a DQ for Hollands!

It's not for Giants and Pals though, right? They seem to have huge ones.

Rose
A large dewlap is a fault on a Holland, not a DQ :)

No -- not Pals or Giants. The only very large breed with aDQ'd dewlap is the Giant Chin, which has a DQ listed for a double orside carried dewlap.

The breeds that DQ for dewlaps are Netherland Dwarf, Brits, Tan,Silver, Himalayan, Dwarf Hotot, Polish (allows a pencil line of furunder the chin). I'm rather liberal on the dewlapDQ because the Standard defines the dewlap as a "pendulous fold ofloose skin which "hangs" from the throat" -- so in my opinion, itreally has to catch my eye before I will throw the rabbit off thetable. (For those who don't show -- I'm not using "throw" inthe literal sense).

Pam
 
Carolyn wrote:
Hi Pam,

What I've always meant to ask you about for the longest time is theskirt that does have. Missy has it, Fauna has it. It's the fur betweenthe tail and the legs that doesn't wrap next to the body like a male's,but instead fluffs out and Buck and the Mrs. call it a skirt.

What's that all about?



-Carolyn


The technical term we use for the skirt is "butt ruffle" LOLOnce again, just a ruff of loose skin fold that happens to beratherdecorative on the Holland Lop, which is posed sittingup :)

Pam
 
Buck Jones wrote:
Thank you, Pam, for your time and expertise.? I?almost always learn something(s) new everytime you post!

??????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?

Buck


Thanks Pam! :dude:

-Carolyn
 
What an informative and interesting post here! Inever even thought about Jezebel's butt ruffle, I just always tell hershe has a fabulous bunny butt (due to the rather stylish "ruffle" andit's two beautiful colours)

Great thing to learn!

Thanks Pam, Buck (for prompting such a fantabulous answer from Pam) and Carolyn for bringing the ruffle up!

Cher
 
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