please help - suddenly fighting bunnies.

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esupi

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Hi - We've had a couple of female bunnies (Truffle andFudge)for 4 weeks now, so don't know what to expect from them yet or how to deal with it. They are almost 12 weeks old and from the same litter.

Until today, they have been best friends, sitting together all the time, grooming each other etc etc. They have shared a cage happily, and get at least 5 hours out of it every day with lots of attention.

This morning, we heard a scuffle, and found them chasing each other around the cage and fighting, with fur flying everywhere. We didn't know what to do, but let them out to calm down and they seemed to get on fine again. Then, we put them back in the cage about 20 mins before we left for work just to see how they got on. Within 5 mins they were scrapping again. Truffle had been biting the bars of the cage, and Fudge had been gently nipping her side, and Truffle just went for her. When we opened the cage door, Fudge couldn't get away fast enough.

As we were out all day, we didn't dare leave them, so quickly fabricated a second cage next to their original one, which we put Fudge into (with her own water, food, litter tray, house etc). The cages are close enough that they can communicate, but not fight!.

I've got back tonight and let them both out, and left both cage doors open. Fudge seems terrified of Truffle. I tried first just putting food into their shared cage - Truffle was eating happily, but Fudge didn't dare go in, or if she did she ran out again scared. So now there is food in both cages. Fudge will go in the first cage if Truffle isn't there. And Truffle is happy in Fudge's new cage. In fact, they've been eating together from the food in Fudge's cage, but aside from this Fudge is very jittery around Truffle.

We just don't know what to do for the best. It's been suggested elsewhere that we've made a separation now and should keep them apart until they're spayed (which they're not old enough for for another 2 months). I don't really want to do that though - is there a way we can get them to be friends again? I daren't shut them in together tomorrow in case they fight again and one of them gets hurt when we're not around. Does anyone have any advice?

Thanks so much.

esupi.
 
Looks like they're hitting puberty. Chances are unless you get them spayed and redo their intro, they're going to keep fighting.
 
teenagers eh?

does that mean it's impossible to keep any rabbits together in between when they hit puberty and when they get spayed? we dont' really have room to have a second cage in the house for the next two months - obviously if we have to we'll find a way though. are they likely to cause each other any serious damage fighting? is it better to make them live together, or just accept it and ride out the next couple of months with the two cages?

sorry for all the questions - it's just that having to suddenly keep them separated seems a bit extreme.

incidentally, they seem to be back to normal now - sitting together and grooming each other, but obviously if i put them away and went to work and came back to find them hurt i'd feel awful. What if we were to keep them separate until the weekend until i can be with them 24/7 - is it possible to re-bond then, or just no chance now until they're spayed?

Thanks.

esupi :(
 
Siblings (Female) sometimes will be fine with each other (spayed or not) but in your case I would not trust them together alone. If left alone one could inflict a lot of damage on the other and it isn't worth the risk.

It is extremely possible that after they have been spayed that they can be rebonded and put together again but it is worth it to put up with the 2nd cage rather than to have an injury.

you could at times attempt to place them together with you present and with close supervision (in an x-pen or neutral area) but only if you can move swiftly enough to separate them if a fight begins.

you can also switch them into each others cages to keep each one very familar with the scent of the other.

I have seen this happen with shelter sibls who begive to get hormones so this is not uncommon but hopefully just a temporary phase that will resolve after the spays.


 
It's not impossible but once they start fighting it's hard to get them to stop. And they can cause a lot of damage to each other. One kick can blind someone, one bite can require surgery if done in the right place.
 
ok - thanks guys - I don't think I would feel comfortable leaving them, knowing they may fight, so will keep them separate for now. I've noticed this evening though, that when they're out and running around, they're fine with each other and will often sittogheter and groom etc, and are happy to eat from the same bowl. but when i put them in together, they start off seemingly fine, then start trying to get out of the door, and that's when they turn on each other (i've let them out again before they start scrapping, but i can tell they're heading that way). Is there a reason for this? maybe they just don't like being confined togehter (the cage is approx. 2 x 4 feet so they're not exactly cramped)?
 
esupi wrote:
ok - thanks guys - I don't think I would feel comfortable leaving them, knowing they may fight, so will keep them separate for now. I've noticed this evening though, that when they're out and running around, they're fine with each other and will often sittogheter and groom etc, and are happy to eat from the same bowl. but when i put them in together, they start off seemingly fine, then start trying to get out of the door, and that's when they turn on each other (i've let them out again before they start scrapping, but i can tell they're heading that way). Is there a reason for this? maybe they just don't like being confined togehter (the cage is approx. 2 x 4 feet so they're not exactly cramped)?
Click to expand...
From that description, I would strongly suggest that the cage size is too small for 2 hormonal female rabbits. They have far more territory, and are not engaging in conflict when given a large enough run area (as you remarked ;) ). Spaying would potentially permit them to cope in a 2x4 hutch.
Breed? Weight?

Personally, I would separate them into two hutches when unsupervised. Not worth the risk of damage. Talking about $300 for stitches at some vets!
 
Northern Autumn,

Someone elsewhere mentioned that the cage size might be a problem. However, it is the biggest widely available cage so we thought we were giving them the best!! The bunnies are Netherland Dwarfs - I couldn't imagine normal sized rabbits in the cage, but these are tiny and we thought they looked ok - and they get 5-6 hours to play free every day.

Is it better to forget commercial cages and just construct a nice home/run for them that's big enough?

Thanks.

esupi.
 
I'm not trying to take over this thread but when trying to reintroduce the two what do you all recommend. I just had this same scenario with my two male rabbits. The first one we got we had already had him neutered so I had the other one neutered yesterday. I had one out today letting him run around and i let the door open to the carrying kennel that the recovering rabbit is currently in and he came out and almost instantly started nipping at our oldest rabbit and in the seperation I recieved several claw marks to my hand and a chunk of skin out of my thumb. Any answers would be greatly appreciated I hate to have to keep these two seperated for good after they've got along so well until now.
 
^^^
IMO, you're moving far too fast with this pair. It is unusual to have a pair of bucks that get along after hitting puberty.

I have a pair of bucks that I erroneously attempted to introduce without neuter. Bad move.

In your case, your younger buck has had less than 24 hrs. to recover from a trip in a car, his surgery, subsequent pain, and is then facing a dominant older male. Bit much.

Your young buck probably smells like vet office, fear, and drugs, which would make your other give off fearful/aggressive signals... I'm delighted your other bun wasn't wounded (your hand is less $$$ than a vet trip ;) :D... $300 for stitches in my neck of the woods!)

It takes approx 6-8 weeks for hormones to leave the system post-neuter. For this reason, I would highly advise you to keep your bucks completely separate until this period is past. Mine seem to have decent memories, and are still not all that fond of eachother a year after only a single incident.

As male-male bonds are quite challenging to develop, please don't expect 1 day, or 1 week results. You may be looking at months of hard work. There are a number of bonding strategies that can be utilized. However, you should be prepared with 2 hutches in case they don't bond as tightly again (maybe able to play, but not sleep together).

If you don't have another hutch right now, your young one would be OK in a bathtub or extra large tupperware bin. Whatever keeps the jumping down post-neuter, for a week or so.
 
Thank you, I wasn't meaning to put them together I just had one out and I opened the door on the other one's cage to check on his eating, drinking, and see if his bedding needed changing. He decided he wanted come out and then things got ugly :p

Edit: Also would you recommend after time moving the two and letting them spend some time in each other's hutch to familiarize them with one another's smell? I believe I read this a few posts up and just wondered if it would help.
 
I'd like to thank everyone for their help. Yesterday evening we fixed the playpen to the cage, doubling the space the bunnies have. They've still been absolutely fine with each other OUT of the cage, so we decided to see if it was a space issue or not. We put them in together at about 9 pm and left them overnight, and every time we checked on them they were huddled up together. We've put a barrier between them again for today while we're not there, but hope to keep them together under observation over the weekend. Worth a try at least before we just put it down to hormones and split them up for the next 2 months!

esupi
 
well - the vet seemed to agree they were both female when we took them for their myxi jabs. could be fun if they're wrong i guess....OH is already freaking out about how much space/time they're taking up (apparently he didn't bother finding out anything about them at all before we got them, just assumed they'd sit happily in a box all day until he wanted to play with them. boys!).

not sure how he'd cope if we suddenly had a few extra bunnies....lol.
 
To Caporegime:

Caporegime wrote:
Thank you, I wasn't meaning to put them together I just had one out and I opened the door on the other one's cage to check on his eating, drinking, and see if his bedding needed changing. He decided he wanted come out and then things got ugly :p

Edit: Also would you recommend after time moving the two and letting them spend some time in each other's hutch to familiarize them with one another's smell? I believe I read this a few posts up and just wondered if it would help.
Click to expand...
That can be included in your tool box of bonding strategies for sure!

Neutral territory is a must. While spending time in eachother's hutches may cause them to be accustomed to eachother's smell, they may just go crazy with trying to remark their territory. Poos and piddles may abound.

They've already marked their play area. You may notice them chinning things to say "mine!". It would be best to conduct bonding sessions with yourself and another adult in a completely neutral zone where no bunny has had the chance to stake a claim yet.

Other folks take rabbits on car rides together in a washing basket... scares the beejeebers out of them, and they bond through the trauma. Not guaranteed to work... maybe just get fighting bunnies in the backseat, LOL. Could also put the basket on top of the washing machine...

I read somewhere once about knocking their sense of smell out by putting a drop of vanilla on each nose...

Again, not all of these strategies will work for a given pair of buns. Take a look in the Lagomorph Library for more info on bonding rabbits.

***As I mentioned, get your pair neutered before trying to bond :).


 


well - it seems space might indeed have been the issue. no more fighting even now - we've increased their run size again so they now have the rabbit equivalent of a palace (approx. 2 x 1.3 m) with 3 houses, a comfy bed, a tunnel and numerous toys (think OH decided in for a penny, in for a pound). It's kind of ridiculous, but they seem happy there - so much so that they're much less keen to come out and play with us now!

Thanks everyone.

esupi.

:)
 
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