Opinions on my herd???? Please???? WARNING PIC OVERLOAD

[mewlingcricket]

Since Emma and I are thinking about starting to show this fall, I wanted to get opinions on our herd to see which ones you think have good type...ect. I know which ones I am thinking about showing, but I want some 2nd, 3rd, 4th,. ect.... opinions too. thanks for looking everyone!! BTW please note I am still learning to pose them,and they are not always helpful.

MY NETHERLAND DWARFS:

Black Otter Sr. Buck

Chocolate Otter Sr. Doe (she is pregnant in this pic)

Chesnuts Jr. Doe

lilac tipped frosted Jr. buck

Black Seal Jr. Buck



MY MINI REXES:

Red Sr. Buck

Black Otter, Sr. Buck



MY LIONHEADS:

Pointed White, Jr. Doe

BEW Jr. Buck

Black Jr. Buck

 

[TCRabbitry]

Personally, I would like to see your ND's more cobby, with shorter mid sections, MUCH bolder heads, thicker bone, and more of an upright stance. I personally would have sold these as pets, as they all have narrow heads, long bodies, and long ears.

Your mini rex look good. I would like to see less shoulder length in both. They both have nice ears, heads and hind quarters.

I really don't know enough to say too much about the lion heads. I am not sure what it is, but I know they are not up to par with the really nice ones I have seen. Although the first one is the nicest of the group.
The black could have more of an upright stance.

 

[leo9lionheads]

Your lionheads: Out of the group the pointed white has the best type from what I can tell, but she is also the best posed. They are all long in body and low in the shoulders. the pointed has good looking HQ's but the buck is pinched, I can't tell with the black.They all look long and narrow in the face. The pointed and balck have very nice manes and the BEW if you tried to show him would be DQ'ed for lack of mane. If your planning on showing this fall I would take the pointed doe. And in the future want to breed I suggest not using the bEW as he would only produce unshowable colors for you.

You Netherlands: ditto to what TCRabbitry said, and beware of the unshowable colors you have.

 

[TinysMom]

I always hate it when folks ask for critique cause many times they're wanting to hear "cute rabbit" but don't realize it till I start pointing out faults. Then I kick myself -apologize to them - and tell myself I won't critique lionheads again - only to do it again...

Before I share a critique - I'm going to ask you to go to a webpage and look at some photos.

I couldn't get the 2010 page to come up right - so here is the 2009 National show page.

Now - I want you to spend at least 5-10 minutes looking at those pictures. Look at the stance of each rabbit (how it sits). Look also at the ears on each rabbit. As you may see - some are still the old "Mule" ears - while others are more cat-like. I also want you to look at how much "space" or "Sky" there is between the table and the rabbit when it sits posed. For an example - take a look at the three smoked pearls that are shown - Metallica, Smokin Hot, and Kema. Tell me - why did Kema win over Metallica? Hint: Metallica is long and you can see this when you see the "space" between the bottom of her tummy and the table. The shorter a rabbit is (which it needs to be) the more it will sit like Kema.

Now I want you to look at the doe that took BOB - and study her stance and her ears. Look through the photos again quickly...compare her to the others. Who is longer than her? Who has bigger ears?

I've seen some awful ugly lionheads that have taken "best of breed" at local shows - even here in Texas. It is possible to win a "Best of Breed" with an ugly rabbit that doesn't meet the standard - because remember - it is competing against others that are probably the same shape,e tc.

But when you take lionheads at a NATIONAL level - that are being judged by judges who have seen lionheads in various areas of the country - that is what can open your eyes to what a "good" lionhead is.

So now let's look at YOUR rabbits.

Which one do you feel has the best stance?
Best ears (after considering what the ears on the winners looked like)?
Who do you feel is shorter in body?
Longer in body?

I have my thoughts...but I'd love to hear yours...and I hope I've helped.

The thing is - I figured I could give you my opinion based on your photos - or I could try to help you better understand the standard - based upon the Nationals photos.

Also - remember that in various areas of the country - people really haven't "improved" the breed - they've just continued to breed the same old same old. I see that somewhat here in SW Texas...and it is why when I get back into the lionheads - I'm bringing in some from both the West Coast and the East Coast to work with lines I know.

 

[TinysMom]

TCRabbitry wrote:

I really don't know enough to say too much about the lion heads. I am not sure what it is, but I know they are not up to par with the really nice ones I have seen. Although the first one is the nicest of the group.
The black could have more of an upright stance.

What you are probably picking up on are the changes in lionheads over the last few years so that they are going to a shorter body that sits upright (versus a long rabbit that lays out like a flemish giant) - with cat-like ears and the long drippy mane which is now possible to get due to lots and lots of breeding.

One of the biggest problems that the lionhead breed (as a whole) has is that there are too many breeders who are breeding the "same old same old"....and not producing any better. They're still getting the long mule ears and the long body because they're not petting them out - instead - they're selling them to others as "brood quality" and people are buying them like that cause they can get them for cheap.

The thing is - there are a large number of breeders who have moved forward with the breed - its the others and they are producing much of the same quality over and over again (in a good way).

It is the breeders who hang onto the old style lionheads that are giving the breed a bad name and keeping it from moving forward.....or at least - that is my not so humble (but very much free) opinion.

When people start petting out those lionheads instead of thinking they're doing a great thing by breeding them.....then the breed will gain some respect from the rabbit community.

 

[irishbunny]

The only rabbits I ''know'' would be the nethies and none look great to me, like someone else said they look like pet quality. You kind of want your nethies to look like two balls, a big ball for a body and a small ball for a head, with two very small ears. Hope that makes sense Their bodies are very long and their heads don't look round enough, also the ears look much too long. The best of them seems to be the first and third rabbit, but I wouldn't see them doing too good at a show.

That being said-they are very cute rabbits

 

[RAL Rabbitry]

The red sr buck has awesome color and an really nice head and ear. Can't tell much more without him being posed correctly.

 

[Jaded]

TCRabbitry wrote:

Personally, I would like to see your ND's more cobby, with shorter mid sections, MUCH bolder heads, thicker bone, and more of an upright stance. I personally would have sold these as pets, as they all have narrow heads, long bodies, and long ears.

Your mini rex look good. I would like to see less shoulder length in both. They both have nice ears, heads and hind quarters.

I really don't know enough to say too much about the lion heads. I am not sure what it is, but I know they are not up to par with the really nice ones I have seen. Although the first one is the nicest of the group.
The black could have more of an upright stance.

:yeahthat:

 

[mewlingcricket]

Tried taking a better shot on a couple, and I added my baby which I had left out before.....BTW thanks for all the feedback, some of it isn't exactly whatcha wanna hear but its what needs to be said so thanks.:wink

Oliver, still be difficult

Samantha

Sawyer

11 day old Lil Bit (he posed himself, caught the pic while he was playing)

 

[TCRabbitry]

I still stand behind what I said earlier. They are all long in body, snipey in head, long in bone, narrow too...

some of them look more like Brits.... NOT what you want at all in ND's.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

They do look long in body type. Maybe you will get better babies out of the next generation.

 

[TCRabbitry]

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:

They do look long in body type. Maybe you will get better babies out of the next generation.

The biggest issue with this is that you can't really improve if something's not there. All of this stock is long in body, narrow in body and head, long in bone, and long in ear, they are only going to produce more of the same....

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

TCRabbitry wrote:

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:

They do look long in body type. Maybe you will get better babies out of the next generation.

The biggest issue with this is that you can't really improve if something's not there. All of this stock is long in body, narrow in body and head, long in bone, and long in ear, they are only going to produce more of the same....

LIIIES.

RANDOM GENETIC MUTATIONZZZZZ.



No seriously. Melinda has a very, very good point.

 

[lelanatty]

Netherland Dwarfs: Your lilac pointed frosted buck is not a showable color, nor is your seal.Though you can breed the seal to other colors if you get into shadeds, that one, as everyone else is saying, is not one of the better ones.
For Lil'Bit, you will just have to wait and see. There is not much we can say now.

Best of luck with your bunnies!

 

[leo9lionheads]

mewlingcricket wrote:

BTW thanks for all the feedback, some of it isn't exactly whatcha wanna hear but its what needs to be said so thanks.:wink

I didn't mean to be harsh on your LH's, I'm really tough on my own heard and rip them apart for every fault I can find and I now tend to do that automatically in my head I should of re-read before posting. but anyways it would be helpful for better posed shots of them with an example of a well posed LH being:

her right fore-leg does need to be moved forward next to the left fore-leg. But see how high up she is on her front feet? with her front feet even with her eyes and hind legs with her Hips? This would help to give you a more accurate judging.

 

[mewlingcricket]

okay I will try it soon