New bunny to 'fix' Poe...

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toyabrooke

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Hi Everyone,

Well I haven't got any photos yet, but on Tuesday I will be getting a chocolate brown Netherland Dwarf that is 8 weeks old. Some of you may know that our bunny Napoleon who we have had almost 2 months has a bit of a nasty streak. He will be nursed and lick and cuddle as long as it is on HIS terms, and when you are doing something in his area he likes, he will charge at you and bite and attack without warning. He has good and bad days, but my mum was so upset that she had gotten me a pet that 'domestically abused' me as she put it, so she has gone and bought a new one to 'keep him company' and picks him up Tuesday.

When we get the new bunny (who we have named Horatio because the enemy that defeated Napoleon was called Horatio Nelson), he will come and live with us in our apartment in a small cage and then in a week or two when mum mum has built a new cage for both of them, Poe will come and they can be bonded. We have introduced him to our other bunny Dudley while Poe has been staying with my mum to try and be trained, and they sniff at each other through the cage and seem to really like each other. When they are both out, there has been no fights or anything close to that, they mostly just do their own thing and ignore each other. Because Poe was only separated from his mum at 4 months, he may want some company too.

With two bunnies, my mum said one can be the cuddler that will sit on my lap for hours, and the other can be the eccentric energetic one that loves nothing more than to do laps around our feet and apartment. We hope this will work out like that too :p The woman we are getting her from assures us he is very okay with being handled as she is studying Vet Science and he gets taken to her classes every day and passed around the class and handled constantly.

Training with Poe has been going okay, but I am the one that mostly needs a break for him and his aggression (although I did almost bring him home with me today until mum spilled the beans about the new bunny...). He definitely remembered me and I got a lovely tooth grind when I nursed him. He is defensive of the dining room table... so his territorial behaviour hasn't got much better/we don't think it ever will. He still refuses to be toilet trained, but Horatio (Ray for short) is already being started with Puppy Pads and I gather because he is young he will take to it fast.

So that is where we are at now. I will be getting the smallest bunny I have ever seen in a few days and I feel so un prepared even though Poe had been here for months before he left to be trained with mum a few days ago.

I have a collapsable dog kenel that I used with Poe and then we put out a bit of X-Pen type stuff just big enough for a big littler box and a bit of running room - Is that too big for a 8 week old bunny? Should I just have him in the dog crate? Also when should I start trying any veggies with him? Wait about a month or so? He will get the plain pellets I changed Poe over too, oats and hay as his normal diet and then bamboo as treats and grass every now and then. How should I introduce us to him? Just put him in his little crate and leave it open and sit on the ground and wait for him to come out? Can I still nurse him if he doesn't mind it? If he is here for a few weeks before Poe comes back, will Poe then see it isn't just his territory and stop pooping EVERYWHERE and stop being as aggressive? I know it's a long shot... but it might help him see he has to share his space?

I will probably have a billion more questions about this tiny little thing... so everyone stay tuned :p My mum is building a 3 level cage for each of them (god knows how it's going to fit in our tiny study) with two 'draw bridges' that can go down an connect them up from across the room so that is how we will slowly introduce them. But once again, Poe seems fine around animals and other rabbits. We have been introducing him to our cats and dogs at my mums house to see if socialisation was his main problem for being so territorial and aggressive (he hasn't been around any other animals apart from his mum), and he basically just ignores them.

Stay tuned for photos and heaps more questions!

T
 
Congratulation on your 8 week old bunny. Hoping the bonding to Poe goes well.

Regarding feeding this tiny guy, alfalfa pellets, hay and consistant fresh drinking water. I wouldn't introduce veggies until 4 months and fruits at 7 months. But that's just me.

Regarding Poe's territorial feeling, until your new bunny is home, you won't know what he will do. You never know, he might melt and become more managable with a companion.

I'm truly hoping the best for you.

K:)
 
Thanks so much Karen! Well Poe actually seems really interested in Dudley - Today when he was locked up and Dudley was out he was following him along his cage walls and wanted to be close to him and they were sniffing at each other through the wires. He might actually want a friend that knows what he is trying to say all the time with all his grunts and licks :p

He will be okay with a smaller cage too wouldn't he? Remember the photo I posted last week of Poe's cage? We will use that but minus the little outside bit and just have it as the crate with a smaller house so there is more room inside.

My mum was more just really upset that Poe wasn't what I've always wanted with my own little pet (even though I still adore him, she saw it more as a fail on her part), so she thought having two meant I could have what I want with a little buddy to snuggle but then have my little naughty Poe that makes us laugh so much with all his energy. And this little bun is already being house trained with Puppy Pads so he may even help Poe later down the track to be trained too. For now I'm just going to limit his time out and his area as much as possible to make sure he takes to toilet training ASAP.

Went from 0 bunnies (with me here in the apartment anyway), to 2 bunnies! Classis mum... :p

T
 
I think Poe will definitely be OK with a smaller crate. Bunnies do adjust. Dobby went from a big crate to a smaller one with no problem. Just make sure he gets his exercise each day because lack of exercise will make a bunny fat, plus it could make them bored, which then can bring on aggressive behavior.

I started out with the same kind of bunnies. Dobby was shy and standoffish, and Kreacher was the one that like all the attention. I was lucky that Dobby wasn't aggressive like your Poe, but it did take him longer to warm up to me.

Wishing you all the luck. Hoping it turns out for you as it did for me.

K:)
 
Oops I meant with the little one we are getting :p I have read that Netherland's like smaller cages because they are smaller? That is just to start him off with though so he can get used to being toilet trained and the whole new area and then my mum is working on building 2 3 level cages that can connect up for Poe and Ray to run around together and play in when we are out.

Poe won't be able to come back until we have those done, so it gives Ray a few weeks to get used to us and the place too. And hopefully also Poe can come back and not be as attached to everything and feel he can share it with us and his new little brother :p

It would be fine if Poe was just really independent without the aggression, but he is just very definite that he will do things his own way and no one else';s. I like that about him, but it can get very overwhelming with all his mood swings! His time at my mums might help a bit too with being around the other animals and everything. Either way we will never just give him away, and hopefully him and Ray will be the best of friends!

T
 
I think what your plans for Ray are perfect. I start all my bunnies now with a smaller crate when they first come here. I learned that with first two that putting them right into a big crate could be overwhelming. Once they are acclimated to the rhythm of our home, then they get their permanent crate, which is always larger. Neville is our prime example of how well this system works out. At least for us.

Also we found that switching their permanent homes around gives them another way of seeing their environment. It really is very mind stimulating for them. It's like a whole new experience even though they are still in the same room. Just a few feet different. But this is what they need. It helps them stay balanced and no boredom sets in which can make a bunny lazy or aggressive.

It is scary when a bunny is aggressive. And so glad that you had your mum to help you. You are so fortunate.

K:)
 
Yes she has been a great help. She has over 100 different species at her house for her wildlife business (she lives in large acreage for them all of course), but her lounge room always has at least 1 animal in there that she is raising from a baby or caring for :p Dudley lives permanently in my old room because he is very spoilt and need constant air conditioning with all his wool!

Well that will be good for them then when mum makes their brand new cages. I'm sure Poe will remember the study very well, but hopefully after being in the lounge room at mums he will appreciate being home with us a little more and not be so demanding of everything. At least that is what we are hoping!

Okay good I'm glad you think the small cage will be good for Ray. Poe did start off with a smallish cage (for his size anyway), but he still just refuses to be toilet trained! I think a lot of that is his obsession with his territory... so hopefully Ray can help him share too :p

Can't wait to meet the little thing. I have never seen an 8 week old bunny in real life!

T
 
You are truly going to fall in love. They say love at first sight, you will definitely experience it. And with an 8 week old you can really bond with them. And raise them. I've raised two successfully, and working on a third, and a planned 4th is on its way. Don't get frustrated regarding the litter box training, or pad training. Just keep reminding yourself that Ray is still a baby. I even catch myself with Neville, thinking he should have gotten the idea of litter box training outside his crate. It takes time. I have say I'm very proud of Neville because he got the litter box training right away inside his crate. No problem there. Now we need to advance him into using the litter box even if he's out on the run in the living room.

My advise to you is be consistent. Keep the same schedule and Ray will get the idea. Consistency and patience is always a winning team.

Please post pics. Can't wait to see your little guy.

K :)
 
I plan on being very consistent although my uni schedule is different each day. I will just let him out in little half hour blocks though I think until he gets used to everything and grows a little bigger and doesn't see us and the study as a huge jungle with lots of scary things that can eat him. I tried to be consistent with Poe, but we had to change our methods with his aggression as we went because they either didn't work or made him more scared. In the end, he was out every second we were home which was great for him and us, but he still liked to control all his favourite areas :(

How often should I let him out do you think? A few half hour blocks a day? Or is that not enough? He will be so teeny I don't want to scare him too much! I will just sit and let him explore (that's if he does explore) and nurse him and give him treats to get him used to being handled - although it sounds he is handled A LOT so hopefully that shouldn't be an issue.

I fell in love with Poe as soon as I saw him, and he still is my little boy and always will be. We just need to try as many things as possible to make sure he is a happy boy with less stress of owning everything - I assume being territorial over everything he likes can be very exhausting for him as well as us! He loves running around at his 'grandmas' though (she hates me calling her that :p). He gets even more room to play there which I think is BAD for his toilet training but she says he is too stubborn to even use it when it is a small space so she doesn't think a big space will do any more harm :p Hopefully his hormones go to completely 0 soon though and he will stop using his business as a method to mark everything as his... sigh.

Also, so he can start to trust us and get used to us with me being out during the day, do you know if putting something in his cage that smelled like me would help at all? I have never heard of anyone doing it but I was curios if that would help him acknowledge my scent as being safe because he can snuggle it, and then putting that belief onto me when he then smells me? Could be a long shot though :p

T
 
Starting out, time out should be about 5 minutes tops and work gradually up to 1/2 hour. That' will probably be when he's much older. But for now, since he is still such a baby, 5 minutes is plenty of time. They can only absorb so much and if you let them stay out more than they can absorb, they will get skittish. It scares them when they are overwhelmed.

Regarding clothing and your smell, go for it. My boys love my husband's t-shirts. They sleep on them. Just watch they don't chew and swallow the material. And you will know if they chew. If there is not little balls of material, then you know he's eating. Take it out immediately.

Neville did well getting my husband t-shirt (unwashed, not dirty). He loves it and will sleep on it. It helps the baby to have that scent of human. Neville smells my scent because I handle him so much. But he does know my husband through the t-shirt. Not afraid at all.

K :)
 
Ahhh okay. Wow that is such little time! Should I just sit next to his closed cage and spend time with him and talk to him when he isn't out? I can see how being out for longer will make him skiddish though - Poe was like that in the beginning when we got him before he got too confident :p

Thanks for all the help and advice Karen, don't know where I would be without it :p :D

T
 
toyabrooke wrote:
Ahhh okay. Wow that is such little time! Should I just sit next to his closed cage and spend time with him and talk to him when he isn't out? I can see how being out for longer will make him skiddish though - Poe was like that in the beginning when we got him before he got too confident :p

Thanks for all the help and advice Karen, don't know where I would be without it :p :D

T
Yes, when my boys were little, I would sit outside their crate and read the Harry Potter series to them. I wanted them to get used to my voice and the more I read and talked to them the more they would come to me. I knew if I was constantly handling them, it would stress them out even more. So they got to know me by my voice first, they could smell my scent because they would come and lay at the front of their cage and watch and listen to me.

I know it's odd reading to bunnies, but it worked for me. And as they grew and I was handling more, I always talked to them before entering their crate or picking them up. The sound of my voice was really the first way they got to know me, along with my scent. They are wild animals really, considered prey animals. They are alerted by sound and smell of danger. So, I figured if they knew my sound and smell it wouldn't be as stressful for them when they actually felt my touch.

I did that with Neville all the way home. Both my husband and I talked to him. He got to know our voices first (6 hours in a car lol). I did the same with him as my boys and it's worked out just fine. He settled in nicely.

K:)
 
This is Horatio :D (or Ray for short... although I do think he looks a bit like a Moe though!) He is SO tiny and the calmest thing you will ever meet. My mum had to drive about 5 hours to get him, and the whole way home he was nursed by my grandma without any problems. We also took him home from my mums just wrapped up in a towel in our arms and he ground his teeth with pleasure the whole trip home!

He is SO different to Poe - All he does all day is eat and sleep. It is such a change to not have him interested in chewing everything or harassing me (lovingly) on my desk. I don't even thing he knows how to hop yet!

We have noticed that one of his back legs is a but.. bung. He cant retract it all the way into his body like a normal body, and balances on his good leg whilst lifting thebad one when he eats. He can move it and groom it and scratch himself with it, but when he hops around to explore the study it is mostly lifted off the floor. I have messaged the breeder with my concerns to get her opinion and whether she noticed it earlier. Either way I don't think it is a big concern - We want him to be less active than his future bonded brother Poe anyway! :p And it doesn't seem to bother him, he just needs to use a bit more effort to bring it forward than he other one, and he just has it stick out the side a bit and more to the front than he other back leg when he is hunched and sleeping.

As soon as he came home with us and he went inside his new cage, he was grooming himself and bunny flopping (much littler ones than Poe though :p). It was so great to see him already happy with his new home. He truly is a little angel!

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Very well! He settled in so fast you wouldn't believe how calm he is. He was handled from a very young age and brought to the breeders uni every day, so he is very happy to be cuddled and picked up and sit on your lap for how ever long you want! The first night we brought him home he was already doing mini binkies and was letting me pet him while he groomed himself. Now, whenever I go to give him a pet in his cage before he comes out to play, he does a big flop under my hand so I have to pet him until he falls asleep (which isn't long.. but I can't bare to stop petting him so I end up sitting there for about 15 minutes or so).

He is active but still a baby so he naps a lot. I think that is just is personality too - very calm natured. He will run around in his little play pen while I supervise toilet training, and then he will do a big flop near or while I am already petting him so he can once again fall asleep under my hand. It is so cute! He seems very happy :) Once he is toilet trained a little better (he hasn't been that bad just a few mistakes out of the cage), his play area will be expanded. I wish he could be out all the time, but he doesn't seem to mind having to be in his cage a little more often that I would like (he is let our around 4-5 times a day for around 30-1 hour each). We haven't had a single problem with skiddishness or him being scared, so his time out is pretty long but just in a small area.

All up - He is a little angle. We miss Poe very much, but Horatio really is a breath of fresh (and much less naughty) air.

T

Edit: Poe is still at mums becoming very good friends with Dudley and attacking my mum when she doesn't share her food with him :p He is making some improvements with toilet training, but still a little bugger with his biting! It should decrease with time though we are hoping.

 
So thrilled for you. You got the rabbit you wanted. It's amazing how babies who are handled every day will be this calm when going to someone new. I plan on following this procedure with all my kits. It makes life for the new owner and my kits so less stressful. And the bonding period is so enjoyable as you experienced.

Good Luck. More photos please. lol

K:)
 
I will hopefully post some more tonight. He is a great little model for my iphone when he runs around hehe.

I know, he is just like a little kitty. We do miss Poe's enthusiasm and zest for life though. He will hopefully be back with us soon though once Ray is a bit older/ when Poe's hormones are at 0. For now he is loving all his running around room with his grandma, not to mention all the treats she is giving him! :X Not that I can blame her... his face is hard to resist until he attacks. He has claimed the entire dining room as his and poops all over it. The other night when my step dad got home, he came and sat on the couch and Poe just hopped up and weed on his chest! He doesn't like anyone he hasn't met on his things (my step dad had been away since Poe came to my mums a few weeks ago, so he hadn't seen much of him). Such a little bossy boots! :bunny17: :p

T
 
So glad to hear Poe is doing well at "Grandma's". I think you did the right thing. And hopefully once Horatio grows up, you can introduce Poe to him.

Glad both your bunnies are in a "Happy" Place.

K:)
 
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