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TinysMom

TinysMom

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, Texas, USA
About a month ago, we were moving rabbits around in the rabbitry and Recharged - a buck who had a very hard time getting does pregnant - was moved into a double-hole cage where a doe was in the other side.

Now before anyone starts criticizing me - the holes were pretty small and Recharged only got does pregnant when they lived IN his cage for like a week or two. He's not exactly my best producing buck.

While I have had a case before of "between the bars" breeding - that was with the black dog kennel type cages I used - where the bars are farther apart (I since learned to be very careful about those).

Last week I pulled the blue doe from beside Recharged and checked her over and then went ahead and bred her to Sting (as I had tenatively planned). When I got her out and examined her, I did not palpate her (because I had not bred her). I did notice she had gained some weight but she wasn't "fat" or to the point where she would be unhealthy.

Today I pulled her out of a different cage (I moved her after breeding her because she is going to a mama cage this next week or so...as soon as I can get one cleaned out and ready for her) and she is VERY big. I am horrible at palpating - but this is not being 7 or 8 days pregnant. This is more like....just a bit away from delivery?

I am not 100% sure on this and I can't palpate worth beans....but I have a couple of questions.


a. If she bred w/ Recharged through the bars and got one horn pregnant - is it possible that Sting got the second horn pregnant?

b. Is there any way to tell?

c. Is she in any danger? What about the kits?

d. If she has one litter of kits and they're alive - will she nurse them if she has a second litter also?

HELP?

Peg

P.S. I will admit that it is possible I could be paranoid but Art felt her and said it feels like she's definitely farther along than one week....
 
Well, I did some googling on the internet and found out that yes it can happen for the doe to get pregnant at two different times. I'm going to pull her out in a bit and try to palpate her to see if she feels lopsided (like one horn has bigger/more kits) and take a guess that way before I decide if she needs to see a vet for this.

Right now she's sitting at her cage door staring out at me....I wish I knew what she was thinking.

Peg

P.S. What I am hoping is she got pregnant from Recharged in both horns and that when she allowed Sting to mount her, etc. - she did not get pregnant and that was a miss. Or that I'm misjudging this - she's just a bit fat and that she did get pregnant from Sting.

Oh yeah - and I've also made sure that there are no does side by side w/ bucks in that stack of double cages. I'm not the one who put Recharged in that cage - but honestly, I didn't really think twice about it after I noticed it since he never really performed and the holes really are small.
 
Before I learned to palpate, I always bred the does 2 weeks after the first breeding and never had a "double pregnancy".

Superfoetation (double pregnancy)is extremely rare in rabbits. They do have 2 uterine horns, but so do many other mammals, including dogs, which do not experience double pregnancies. Although rare, superfoetation is not impossible and is even documented in humans.

Superfoetation is however, common in hares, which become receptive in the last 5 days of the first gestation.



Opps - my post morphed and part of it disappeared.



I also mentioned that the buck would have to be very dexterous to impregnate the doe through the wire - but it's not impossible.

Pam


 
No criticizing here - I'm laughing cause "recharged" - I keep thinking of the rechargeable energizer bunny.

THEN I think about him thinking "she doesn't suspect a thing....... here's my chance....... "
 
Thanks folks. Hopefully - she's just big and only pregnant from Sting. I'm going to watch her with the pile of hay I'll start keeping in her cage - as soon as she starts to carry it in her mouth - in goes the nestbox.

I honestly can't see how she could've gotten pregnant through the bars..but I have heard of it happening. All I know is - she's a big girl right now - noticeably bigger than she was before. It doesn't seem like she would be this big on day 8 or 9 of a pregnancy.

I did take her out and check her over some more. She doesn't feel lopsided - both sides feel the same. If she was pregnant from Recharged - I would've though I'd be feeling kicks (based on her size right now)....but I didn't feel that.

So I guess I'll just keep a close eye on her and watch and wait.

My biggest concern was the whole double pregnancy thing....

Peg
 
I wonder if she would have even allowed him to get her if she was already preggers.

Maybe she's going to have a zillion babies!!! :D
 
Bo B Bunny wrote:
I wonder if she would have even allowed him to get her if she was already preggers.

Maybe she's going to have a zillion babies!!! :D
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, receptiveness to the buck isn't a reliable indicator of pregnancy. Some pregnant does will very willingly accept a buck, and some barren does will refuse the buck.

Pam
 
I've had submissive does allow a buck to mount her, even when she was already weeks into being bred. So don't go by that.

I've never heard first hand evidence of a double pregnancy that far apart. (... I've heard of two bucks breeding the same doe the same day and the kits come out with some looking like one buck and some looking like the other... tough to write a pedigree!)

Best thing to do is be ready for the "Recharged" litter. If she doesn't produce, give her 3 weeks and wait for another try!
 
Peg, be -very- careful when palpating her, as you don't want to damage the older kids if she has them.

I would definitley take her to the vet to see what's up.

As what I've read, if she has both horns -pregnant-, then when she delivers the first litter, the second litter may be born VERY premmature, most likely resulting in death of all the kits. This, is only a chance though.

In all my breeding, I have never experienced a double pregnancy, but I only breed my does once, not first and then 2 weeks later again.

Good luck!

Emily


Edited to Add:

If you say she is huge, but you're not feeling any kicks, it's likely she just gained wait and didn't get pregnant from Recharged. I have just rested my hands on 3-4 wk. pregnant does and felt lots of kicking and it's very common to see/feel it when they're that far along. She sounds like (if she is pregnant by Recharged) that the kits inside her would be kicking, but if not, maybe she is pregnant just by Sting? It's very hard to tell if does have double pregnancies.
 
BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:
Peg, be -very- careful when palpating her, as you don't want to damage the older kids if she has them.

No. Really? I've been palapting for almost three years now - I just know I'm no good at it - probably because other breeders have told me I'm too darned gentle.

 I would definitley take her to the vet to see what's up.
No need - I've gotten some good advice from breeders I trust here on the forum. She is the right age for breeding and she is healthy. I just wasn't sure about the odds of her having the double pregnancy. The vet isn't even as good as I am about palpating...and I'll never forget the time they palpated a doe, Xrayed her - told me she wasn't pregnant - and she went on to have kits about 2 weeks later....so I'm REAL anxious to take her to the vet.....yep! :biggrin2:

As what I've read, if she has both horns -pregnant-, then when she delivers the first litter, the second litter may be born VERY premmature, most likely resulting in death of all the kits. This, is only a chance though.

Yep - a slim chance.

In all my breeding, I have never experienced a double pregnancy, but I only breed my does once, not first and then 2 weeks later again.

Well - I don't breed them and then rebreed later...I've read too much about it.

 Good luck!

Emily


Edited to Add:

If you say she is huge, but you're not feeling any kicks, it's likely she just gained wait and didn't get pregnant from Recharged. I have just rested my hands on 3-4 wk. pregnant does and felt lots of kicking and it's very common to see/feel it when they're that far along.
I already know what that feels like - the thing is - I can't be sure of when she might have gotten pregnant - IF she did. So she could be 2.5 weeks along - instead of 1 week along. Or whatever...


She sounds like (if she is pregnant by Recharged) that the kits inside her would be kicking, but if not, maybe she is pregnant just by Sting? It's very hard to tell if does have double pregnancies.

I'm just going to wait and see. One very reputable breeder messaged me and said it is possible that being near Recharged made her hormones go wacky and she felt she was pregnant (wow..now that would be SOME pregnancy) and that maybe she gained weight because she thought she was pregnant (false pregnancy) only now maybe she really is pregnant from Sting.

Looks like we'll just take a "wait and see" approach. I'm sure she's probably fine (just really upset with me today).

My biggest concern was about the odds of a double pregnancy and folks have reassured me that this is not as common as I worried about.
Click to expand...
 
I was just giving you the advice that I knew. And as for the taking to the vet, you suggested in one of your posts that you might take her. I was just adding to it. It seems you didn't appreciate my advice, but you took everyone elses, whys this?

Emily


 
Peg,

In my 15 years of breeding, I have never heard anything about double pregnancies happening to people does. I agree with Pam in that it is very rare but could happen. As for telling, unless you can palpate the individual horns (I can't) then I really don't know. I would just keep an eye on her.

Put a nestbox in anyway and keep palpating her. Never know...Recharged just may have gotten her.

Sharon
 
BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:
It seems you didn't appreciate my advice, but you took everyone elses, whys this?

Emily
Click to expand...
Since we have pretty much discussed this privately - I'll leave it at that.

Peg
 
tundrakatiebean wrote:
pamnock wrote:
Superfoetation (double pregnancy)is extremely rare in rabbits.
Click to expand...
does anyone know how often this happens? I'm curious...
Click to expand...

I don't know of any cases that have been confirmed to be certain.

Most cases that I've heard of were kits born 31 days after the first litter was born, so were not "double pregnancies".

However, I have read of a couple cases in humans, so I guess nothing is impossible.

Pam


 
I have always been terrible at palpating too. I never trusted my own opinion, LOL. That breeder friend of yours that said she might have had a false pregnancy going on at first makes the most sense to me.


 
I HAVE had a doe have a double pregnancy. It IS possible. Mind had a horrible outcome. I didn't know she had bred so I bred her to a buck a week later. She had 5 babies(the last breeding) the day the first ones was due. She didn't nest but I did for her. Next day I went to check and there was 4 dead babies(1 of the early breeding and 3 of the ones that was full term). She raised 2 of the week early babies. When they started dieing off till the 2 I fostered them to a doe with 2 older babies. The two babies from the double pregnancy was just to small. One mad it till 2 weeks and the other 4 weeks. At 4 weeks it was the size of a 2 week old. They was NOT peanuts.
 
gentle giants wrote:
That breeder friend of yours that said she might have had a false pregnancy going on at first makes the most sense to me.
Click to expand...
Yes - it makes the most sense to me.

I'm really not worried about her at this point in time - I'm going to watch her and at any signs of fur-pulling or nesting, I'll make sure she gets a nestbox. My biggest concern is getting her into a mama cage - I wanted to give her one that the babies are in now - they'll be weaning in about 2 weeks....but alas - I may put her in a smaller mama's cage than the three I'm using at the moment...

I think she just wanted to make my next 3 weeks interesting.....

:shock:
 
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