Molar issues in elder bun…how fast do their teeth grow anyway?

[PamsWarren]

Fuzz had a molar rasp on June 1. He ate well for a few days, then appetite waned again, so I took him back on June 8. The molars on one side were overgrown again (how fast do rabbit teeth grow anyway?!), so they filed them down. It's been two days; his appetite is even worse and his one eye is still very teary, especially when eating. He seems hungry, but reluctant to eat even syringe food (the licking motion seems to bother him) and when he does eat syringe food, his eyes seem to tear more and I notice weird mouth movements. I suspect that there is a small spur or something that has been missed, but at 12.5-13, I am really reluctant to put him under for a good look. Last time we did a proper molar grind (January), he had such a hard time with the anesthetic. OTOH, I feel that if I don't opt to have the vet put him under for a good look, I will loose him anyway because he is not eating enough to sustain himself.

I wondered if perhaps there was something wrong with his jaw or something else that might make chewing difficult, but his current foods of choice seem to be smallish bits of soft hay, dill, hay cubes (his fav), small amounts of pumpkin and non-food items like grass mats (he was eating carrots and broccoli, too). Given his food preferences, pain from chewing seems unlikely. I should also add that he did eat a bit of syringe food last night about 2 hours after his dose of metacam, but his other food preferences did not change.

So now my question. What would you do if this were your bunny? Aside from not wanting to eat, his demeanor seems quite fine…he sleeps a lot (not surprising at his age), but when not sleeping, he's hopping around the garden with us, humping Muffy (his favourite pasttime) or lounging about comfortably. He is getting daily metacam (.5ml), Chloremphenicol (just started to administer again), and two eye drops to control the glaucoma. His weight has so far been steady at 1.85 - 1.9kg.

Thanks to anyone with insight.

 

[tonyshuman]

Jeez that is fast! It sounds to me like he has some issue that's causing them to not grind against each other. I would guess that since his eyes are teary, that there are tooth root problems. That itself can be painful, no matter what's going on with the part of the tooth you CAN see, and should be addressed. That would probably mean x-rays to confirm tooth root problems, and then extracion of the teeth. This would require a lot of anesthesia--multiple times, and a surgery that's not always the easiest to recover from because it is very painful. I would have a good long discussion with your vet about anesthesia in an older rabbit, and make sure to do pre-op bloodwork to get an idea of kidney and liver function. I hate to say that the only real treatment may be too much for him, but that is quite probable. If you don't want to do that, quality of life is the main issue--I would ask about adding a narcotic pain med to his regimen and give lots of soft food, maybe even a dish of critical care daily to get his fiber intake satisfied.

 

[PamsWarren]

Thanks for the reply. Either there is a physical issue that is causing the teeth to not grind together or he is chewing in such a way (on purpose) to prevent pain which is not allowing his teeth to grind together properly. The last xrays we had done did show that the tooth roots (bottom) were overgrown. I knew that overgrown tooth roots can cause teary eyes, but I did not know they were also painful. I am certain he would not survive tooth extraction; I am not even sure he would survive another molar grind or even an oral exam under anesthetic. What sort of additional narcotic pain med would be appropriate? In the past many years, I've only ever given Metacam. I suspect that adding additional pain control would be more likely to help with pain from overgrown molar roots than from spurs. With spurs, I think that chewing may still feel funny (and thus prevent him from eating normally) even if it doesn’t hurt.

Last time I tried CC, none of my kids would willingly eat the stuff. I usually make my own 'slop' by softening their pellets and adding some mashed banana and pumpkin. If I leave plates of slop for him, though, Muffy, his mate, ends up gobbling up the stuff. She LOVES slop. And too much slop for Muffy = way too many cecals (not to mention, she's getting a bit chubby). CC may be worth another try, as it is less appealing to Muffy than slop. As of last night, though, he really isn't even willingly licking pumpkin or 'slop' off of a plate or out of a syringe. Foods of choice now include meadow grass hay, apple sticks, grass mats, various veggies (depending upon shape and texture), cat grass, shredded carrots and hay cubes. At least he's eating some hay.

Given the weird mouth movements and hesitation to lick or eat from a syringe, I am really suspecting that there is a small spur hidden under the tongue or deep inside of the mouth that we are missing . I lost my first rabbit (11 yo) while under anesthetic during a molar grind and exam of the oral cavity. Putting Fuzz under again isn't something that I want to do, but I think it will come to that. Something I will have to discuss with the vet.

Oh, something else weird that I noticed last night - he ate a bit of shredded carrot then, uh, got a bit of exercise humping Muffy. When he moved away from her, her back had a few orange stains...carrot coloured drool, I am guessing.

 

[Maureen Las]

Is a molar rasp the same as a molar grind? I never heard that term before ?; is amolar rasp done without anesthesia?

It is impossible for the teeth to grow that quickly soI would guess that possibly the vet was working quickly without anesthesia and did not compete the work

Rabbits often make strange mouth motions after dental work.I believe that the work makes their mouths feel strange to them

Everything Claire stated above is correct.you may want to seek out an animal dentist ( who does exotics) to do his teeth . A specialist may be better able tomanage the anesthesia and work faster with more specilaized tools.

 

[PamsWarren]

<<Is a molar rasp the same as a molar grind? I never heard that term before ?; is a molar rasp done without anesthesia?>>

Yes, a molar rasp is done without anesthesia, so there are obvious limitations as to how thorough the vet can be. The smallest points affect Fuzz's appetite; the molar rasp allows the vet to keep the minor sharp edges filed down. We were hoping that if we kept up with the minor points that we would not have to anesthetize. It's been 6 or 7 months since his last molar grind under anesthetic; previously I had been taking him in approx every 6 weeks.

<<It is impossible for the teeth to grow that quickly so I would guess that possibly the vet was working quickly without anesthesia and did not compete the work >>

Quite possibly. The vet who did the first molar rasp was not my regular vet. I only used this vet because my regular vet was away on a personal emergency with return date unknown and we were going out of town.

I do not think that there is a veterinary dentist in this area who also sees exotics. The vet that I am currently taking Fuzz to is one that other, less experienced vets often refer their rabbit clients to for more complicated issues. I really do feel that Fuzz has as good a chance of making it through a molar grind under anesthetic with this vet as any other vet in the city.

Since my last post, at the suggestion of the vet (not my regular vet), I increased Fuzz's metacam dosage (starting on Friday). I really only noticed marginal improvement until Sunday PM, when I saw Fuzz eat pellets for the first time in about a week. He's now eating pretty much normally (normal for Fuzz is steady grazing in between naps and humping Muffy :rollseyes).

Sunday PM would have been about 5 days after starting the Chloremphenicol. Perhaps it is merely a coincidence, but the same thing happened with the last two courses of Chloremphenicol that we did. After about 5 days, there is dramatic improvement - he sleeps less, he eats better and is just in general much more active.

I still think that there is something wrong, but for the moment, he is doing much better. I am going to continue with the higher dose of Metacam until I need a refill on the Chloremphenicol at which time I will book a consultation with my regular vet.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.