Male Bunnies aggressively mating repeatedly!!?

[I love my bunnies]

I have two male rabbits who have come from a bondly backgrounds. The breader has had both males and all females together and they have obviously come from two different litters. (No aggressive behavior from neither of the females and males towards each other or baby bunnies)

Now resently I had one of my boys sick and we had a vet visit and I obviously asked if it's desperately needed for them to be neutered and we had a long discussion and all rabbits that got neutered had recovered and haven't had any issues from surgery or the drugs used. But it's been a hesitation as a few bunnies I know have died from surgery and it's common. I don't want to risk it but I know it's beneficial.
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So my bunnies aren't neutered for that manner/ reason and my vet's have told me that's it's okay to have them unentered, and as much as the bunny industry manly pet may pressure you into doing so, as long as your bunnies are happy and healthy thiers no reason to have to.
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Now let me tell you that having them unentered has its ISSUES, •No 1 potty training is impossible like trust me I have tried, tried and tried and it's both of them soo like dubble the trouble. (Their potty tray can fit three grown bunnies, it's big but just a fancy accessory to the boys)
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• No 2 one of them likes spraying the other and I have had many discussions back and forth about this and at this point I don't know, like it's not as bad at times but my other bunny constantly has pee stans on him and I have to spot clean him witch is not enjoyable for either of us.
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• No 3 The chasing and mating is a big big big big BIG problem and it's been progressing to the point where my bully out of the two is sleeping separately in my room ( at night) until I can order a divider and extra stuff (buying more stuff is really expensive right now and I'm already buying a hole lot of chew toys and hay and etc)
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I couldn't sleep at night as thier very active and my sensitive one is getting bullied and he can't even eat peacefully without being asked to be mated on and chased around. ( He's not innocent, he also does the exact same thing to my bully, but I call him my sensitive one as he has a soft spirit and pure heart )
- They have also been smacking the floor, especially the bully. "Pooing everywhere" as they are free roamed, as the cage is only needed for desperate reasons.
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Please help, I know I am talking about a lot here but the main issue is the mating and chasing as well as pooing everywhere!!
Identify: Black ear's & nose is the sensitive one ( Milo)
One lying down next to him is the bully ( Fettuccine)

 

[Blue eyes]

It is seldom that two intact male rabbits will remain bonded and continue to get along. This is what you are seeing. Those hormones are driving their behavior. You are lucky that they have not yet gotten into an all-out, tornado fight. It is very possible that Milo will eventually have enough of Fettuccine's attention and will lash out and a fight will follow. This would be a bad thing since such a fight could result in serious injury (or worse).

From what you have described, it does not sound like these two can remain a "bonded" pair. They may have gotten along wonderfully as babies -- most babies do get along. The onset of hormones can change all that.

As I see it, you have two options. One is to separate them fully. Create two completely different spaces-- one for each rabbit. If those spaces can be out of sight and smell of each other, all the better. If each rabbit thinks he is the lone rabbit, they may each get better with their litter training. Right now they are going potty everywhere because they are trying to out-mark the other for territory. This situation they are in now is also quite stressful for them as they are constantly on guard and feeling that need to establish hierarchy and claim territory. By being out of sight of each other, it allows each of them to relax and not be so stressed.

The second option is to go ahead and have them neutered. Neutering rids them of those hormones. But understand that 1., neutering them is no guarantee that they will re-bond with each other, and 2., it takes up to 6-8 weeks after surgery for those hormones to fully dissipate. You didn't mention their ages or how long you've had them. If they have been having these issues for a long time, it is possible that these behaviors have become ingrained habit. If so, then neutering may not reverse this habitual behavior. However, if your goal is to have them be a bonded pair, their best chance for that would be for them both to be neutered and then re-introduced to each other after that healing period. Again, no guarantees here.

If you are more concerned about the surgery where you live, then separating them may be your preference. That's something you'll have to weigh and decide.

 

[JBun]

Please separate your two rabbits immediately. It is a HUGE risk keeping two intact male rabbits together. Unneutered male rabbits almost always will start to fight at some point, and this fighting can result in very serious injuries, or even death. It can and does happen.. it's happened to members here.

Intact male rabbits are just too hormonal. They will often try and mount each other incessantly, until one of them gets fed up and lashes out, then full out viscous fighting can occur.

So your choice is either keep them intact and completely separate from each other, or separate now and get them both neutered with plans to rebond after the 4-8 week post neuter waiting period that's needed for hormones to completely fade. Just do not continue to keep them together now, or you are taking a big risk with their safety and lives if you do.

Also, if at all possible, please find a more experienced rabbit vet to go to. Any vet that tells you it's ok to keep two intact male rabbits together, is proof the vet isn't an experienced rabbit vet . But I understand if your options for rabbit vets might be limited though, because of your location.

 

[I love my bunnies]

Thank you for the reply.

I do see how separating them is and isn't useful for the long run but when thier separated it's all most as if they become eager to see and be within each other's reach. So maybe neautring will be something to study and look forward towards.
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They depend on each other for playing and self care as well as company so it will be hard for them to be separated forever as they have been together since birth.
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My Milo had began searching for Fettuccine and he began starting to look worried and confused. But happy that he wasn't being bullied. (slept with no issues alone) Fettuccine had to take time to calm down as he was very active but did calm down after a while.
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Milo slept outside the room door Fettuccine was in and Fettuccine slept at the door opposite Milo. So they were trying to stay close towards each other in a way, ( Very calm and normal) I did have a few scratching and nibbling to get out of the room from Fettuccine but they died out.
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Boys seemed normal next day, actually they were very close, no humping or chasing as far as we could monitor but thier was a few random pits of hair on the floor outside ( not sure who's hair it was but it's been very cold ) I have no cooking clue where the hair came from and why it appeared there.
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They have been separated but close, close towards each other, like sitting against the fence that divided them.
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They spent time together and separated and it did good but being separated, I can't see it being permanent.
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Unfortunately I have only two close vet's and the other we have a tuff history with, a few of my animals not being taken cared of to my standard of care, over priced medical care & medicine, costs on visits about R1200 for just a visit, bad costs on after hour calls, costs on house visits, and that's separated from the actual vets checking your animal and etc. Hectic stuff so I now only have one reliable vet.
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[I love my bunnies]

It is seldom that two intact male rabbits will remain bonded and continue to get along. This is what you are seeing. Those hormones are driving their behavior. You are lucky that they have not yet gotten into an all-out, tornado fight. It is very possible that Milo will eventually have enough of Fettuccine's attention and will lash out and a fight will follow. This would be a bad thing since such a fight could result in serious injury (or worse).

From what you have described, it does not sound like these two can remain a "bonded" pair. They may have gotten along wonderfully as babies -- most babies do get along. The onset of hormones can change all that.

As I see it, you have two options. One is to separate them fully. Create two completely different spaces-- one for each rabbit. If those spaces can be out of sight and smell of each other, all the better. If each rabbit thinks he is the lone rabbit, they may each get better with their litter training. Right now they are going potty everywhere because they are trying to out-mark the other for territory. This situation they are in now is also quite stressful for them as they are constantly on guard and feeling that need to establish hierarchy and claim territory. By being out of sight of each other, it allows each of them to relax and not be so stressed.

The second option is to go ahead and have them neutered. Neutering rids them of those hormones. But understand that 1., neutering them is no guarantee that they will re-bond with each other, and 2., it takes up to 6-8 weeks after surgery for those hormones to fully dissipate. You didn't mention their ages or how long you've had them. If they have been having these issues for a long time, it is possible that these behaviors have become ingrained habit. If so, then neutering may not reverse this habitual behavior. However, if your goal is to have them be a bonded pair, their best chance for that would be for them both to be neutered and then re-introduced to each other after that healing period. Again, no guarantees here.

If you are more concerned about the surgery where you live, then separating them may be your preference. That's something you'll have to weigh and decide.

Thank you for reply

A lot to think of as it's sad to see that they may get worse, it's like an ocean, high tides and low tides, sometimes thier fine and it's the very first time I have ever had to experience such behavior.
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Obviously I separated them at night without a thought. I have had them for 6 months, Fettuccine for a month longer the Milo. Fetty had a previous friend who passed from being dropped and I was trying to give the friend special attention until he could join back the group. ( Ended up keeping them ) ( ended up getting Milo )
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I got them when they where about maybe 3-4 months old, I think. They have been very independent of each other's care and need and sometimes I'm a third party. So I didn't expect to much drama but there where times were I was walking on eggshells.
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A lot to think about, but I'm truly appreciatve on your thoughts and wisdom as to get this help I would have to pay a lot as vet's are expensive especially now with prices going high.

 

[Blue eyes]

They depend on each other for playing and self care as well as company so it will be hard for them to be separated forever as they have been together since birth.

They have been separated but close, close towards each other, like sitting against the fence that divided them.

It is quite common for baby rabbits that have always been together to have that "bond" completely break with the onset of hormones. This is why baby 'bonds' don't count as true bonds. Yours are still young enough (in their first year) that not only have those hormones clearly affected their relationship, but that relationship is still not firmly established. These bouts of aggression they have are proof of this and, unfortunately, could get worse. I urge caution.

Also, a common misinterpretation of sitting against the fence that divided them is the assumption that they are sitting closely like that because they want to be near each other. This is only one possibility. In this case, I suspect it could be the other possibility -- that they are sitting next to the dividing line (the fence) in order to claim that line as their territory. It is a rabbit's way of saying to the other rabbit "hey, this is my space and don't you try to infringe."

Just some further thoughts for consideration.

 

[I love my bunnies]

It is quite common for baby rabbits that have always been together to have that "bond" completely break with the onset of hormones. This is why baby 'bonds' don't count as true bonds. Yours are still young enough (in their first year) that not only have those hormones clearly affected their relationship, but that relationship is still not firmly established. These bouts of aggression they have are proof of this and, unfortunately, could get worse. I urge caution.

Also, a common misinterpretation of sitting against the fence that divided them is the assumption that they are sitting closely like that because they want to be near each other. This is only one possibility. In this case, I suspect it could be the other possibility -- that they are sitting next to the dividing line (the fence) in order to claim that line as their territory. It is a rabbit's way of saying to the other rabbit "hey, this is my space and don't you try to infringe."

Just some further thoughts for consideration.

Unfortunately today had been the day I had to break out thier first fight. Milo is FEAD UP with Fettuccine and how aggressive that fight had become started to worry me. Milo is such a sweet heart and is only after 5 months starting to truly get loved by me without fear and is warming up so seeing him being aggressive was so shocking to me.
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We have them separated as we speak and I just can't believe how they have turned out. I'm really worried and having them separated is just not for us as we really do need them to be together and I think neutering is the best option.
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We are only fosters, the plan was to take them in and help them recover then off to a new home. Obviously I love them both and I couldn't give them up. I've done everything within my power to make sure thier comfortable, healthy and safe.
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I feel as if I'm failing both the boys as I'm truly trying but being new to having males and two bunnies ( I lost my only female bunny to jaw cancer 2020, I had her alone as she wasn't the best with other bunnies and we had other pet's so she wasn't alone)
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I need to look for a trusty vet and buy more neccasry stuff as they may not be able to bond after surgery. This is obviously happening at a bad time and they may have to go to new homes.
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I trusted people and trusted people with thier advice but you can't trust every vet you come across and I'm really starting to get fustrated when I hear stories of animals not getting the right care.
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I'll update and I appreciate everything you all are doing, I'm more aware of the situation and trying

 

[I love my bunnies]

Hi everyone, the boys have both been neutered. I'm so happy I immediately saw a personal change in them, very sweet, cuddle and understanding.
Thank you all for the support.

 

[JBun]

You should see continued improvement in behavior, litter habits, and hormonal marking, as their hormones fade out over the next few weeks. It can take anywhere from 3-8 weeks for hormones to completely fade, so I would suggest waiting at least 3-4 weeks post neuter, before attempting bonding them back together. If either is still acting excessively hormonal, then you may need to wait the full 8 weeks for the hormones to be gone, before attempting rebonding.

I would also suggest reading up on bonding and rabbit behavior before starting the rebonding, so you'll better know the signs of aggression and when to separate before a full blown fignt breaks out(which you never want to happen).

https://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/bonding-bunnies.html
http://cottontails-rescue.org.uk/information/bonding-bunnies/
https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Bonding_rabbits_together
http://language.rabbitspeak.com/
https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Understanding_your_rabbit