Live Rabbits are Lunch at Big Cat Rescue
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Sweetie
Well-Known Member
That is just darn right cruel to those poor little bunnies.
Kipcha
Well-Known Member
That's just terrible, and it's a bit of a shock because I have watched their videos online and the Big Cat Rescue seemed like such a good organization.
That poor bunny in the pic, it just looked so curious...
That poor bunny in the pic, it just looked so curious...
Happi Bun
Well-Known Member
Honestly not sure how I feel about this. Are these Bobcats being rehabilitated to return to the wild? If so teaching them how to catch live prey is an important step in the process, I would think. :dunno
slavetoabunny
Well-Known Member
GRR used to be a big supporter of Big Cat Rescue....no more. Please form your own opinion.
missyscove
Christina - Moderator
I'd definitely be interested in hearing both sides of this story. Obviously I'm a rabbit lover so the thought of rabbits being eaten by anything isn't necessarily a happy one, I can also see the potential value in using live prey to rehabilitate a predator for release into the wild.
Kipcha
Well-Known Member
I understand that they are used for prey and they do rehabilitate these animals BUT that rabbit in the photo (That rabbit, I'm not generalising them all) has probably been a pet at some point, judging by how bold it was. That animal is not reacting how a rabbit in the wild would, so really, it isn't teaching them anything. Prey does not naturally come up to greet you.
If they are rehabilitating and teaching them how to hunt, fine. But don't use animals that were once pets. There are plenty of rabbits out there that are wild and reacting more naturally then that one that have not been socialised.
It isn't helping them if it just walks up to them.
That's just my opinion, though.
If they are rehabilitating and teaching them how to hunt, fine. But don't use animals that were once pets. There are plenty of rabbits out there that are wild and reacting more naturally then that one that have not been socialised.
It isn't helping them if it just walks up to them.
That's just my opinion, though.
missyscove
Christina - Moderator
But that's why I'd rather hear both sides of this story. A picture is worth a thousand words, but one picture doesn't always tell the whole story.
Runestonez
Retired Moderator
As a wildlife rehabber...yes...live squirrels, cottontails and other small mammals are used to rehab birds of prey and larger predators for release into the wild.
Do I agree...idk...
I am a small mammal rehabber...so I find it personally repulsive and unfair...but I do see the value of rehabbing predators for proper release.
Do I see value in using domestics...NO!
They do not react the way wilds do...other than an easy meal...there is no real value in their use in this case...cruel and shameful.
I am truly saddened by this.
Do I agree...idk...
I am a small mammal rehabber...so I find it personally repulsive and unfair...but I do see the value of rehabbing predators for proper release.
Do I see value in using domestics...NO!
They do not react the way wilds do...other than an easy meal...there is no real value in their use in this case...cruel and shameful.
I am truly saddened by this.
MiniLopHop
Well-Known Member
Do we know where they are getting the rabbits and what the end goal is? I don't know enough to form an opinion.
If they are rehabilitating to release then, as stated above, live prey is valuble. However, using former pets is not going to be very helpful. How do we know this was a pet rabbit? Perhaps it is just a very curious one since the cat wasn't acting normal. With preditor/prey interactions that animals develop in responce to each other over time. There's too much involved to make a judgement off one picture.
Personally I wouldn't want to see any rabbit or animal in general hurt, but cats have to eat meat.
If they are rehabilitating to release then, as stated above, live prey is valuble. However, using former pets is not going to be very helpful. How do we know this was a pet rabbit? Perhaps it is just a very curious one since the cat wasn't acting normal. With preditor/prey interactions that animals develop in responce to each other over time. There's too much involved to make a judgement off one picture.
Personally I wouldn't want to see any rabbit or animal in general hurt, but cats have to eat meat.
They are obviously idiots and are just taking the "easy" path and trying to justify it as "re-habbing". :banghead:soapbox:tantrum:
Happi Bun
Well-Known Member
The people of Big Cat Rescue are not idiots, they do a LOT of good in the world of big cats. It's not fair to make such a harsh judgment without the full story. We do not know FOR A FACT these are pet rabbits. They could be raised for meat for Zoo's and rehabilitation or human consumption.
RandomWiktor
Critter Keeper
I agree with those saying we don't know enough to pass judgement. I strongly doubt that they bothered going around purchasing friendly "pet" rabbits - not only do they not need the bad press, but it wouldn't be cost effective in the least. If they are like most rehab centers I've volunteered for, they obtain the live animals from meat breeders and similar dealers. And sad thought it is, it IS a crucial part of predator rehabilitation to get the animals to eat live prey.
It's easy to say "they should use wild rabbits!" but you need to remember that in many states wild rabbits are a regulated game species. This means that there may not be year-round take, there are probably bag limits, not to mention how unfeasible and difficult it would be to obtain large numbers of wild rabbits live on a big enough scale for a bustling rehab center. And really, are wild rabbits somehow more deserving of death or less capable of pain and fear than domesticated animals?
Domesticated but "wild colored" mice were always used for the raptor centers I worked at, and the photo looks like a domesticated but "wild colored" rabbit. In other words... standard practice. We don't know what circumstances the photo was taken under. The rabbit may have already been stunned by the bobcat. Or it may have been curious of the bobcat's curious and un-predator-like behavior as a young, unexperienced cat. Basically: a picture isn't enough to base one's entire opinion of an organization on, especially in a context that quite frankly has a blatant agenda.
I'd hate to see Big Cat Rescue, an organization that does FANTASTIC work, lose followers over a knee-jerk reaction to a photograph without the full story behind it.
It's easy to say "they should use wild rabbits!" but you need to remember that in many states wild rabbits are a regulated game species. This means that there may not be year-round take, there are probably bag limits, not to mention how unfeasible and difficult it would be to obtain large numbers of wild rabbits live on a big enough scale for a bustling rehab center. And really, are wild rabbits somehow more deserving of death or less capable of pain and fear than domesticated animals?
Domesticated but "wild colored" mice were always used for the raptor centers I worked at, and the photo looks like a domesticated but "wild colored" rabbit. In other words... standard practice. We don't know what circumstances the photo was taken under. The rabbit may have already been stunned by the bobcat. Or it may have been curious of the bobcat's curious and un-predator-like behavior as a young, unexperienced cat. Basically: a picture isn't enough to base one's entire opinion of an organization on, especially in a context that quite frankly has a blatant agenda.
I'd hate to see Big Cat Rescue, an organization that does FANTASTIC work, lose followers over a knee-jerk reaction to a photograph without the full story behind it.
slavetoabunny
Well-Known Member
This is Big Cat Rescue's canned reply to everyone that has written them:
I am sure that all rabbits, domestic or wild born, would argue that their life is just as precious. The rats and rabbits we give to the rehab cats were... bred at a facility for the sole purpose of being fed to snakes. Now that's something I really have trouble justifying, but I am cat biased. I always take VIP guests into our live prey room though because our volunteers make the last few weeks of their lives, the best weeks of their lives, with grape Popsicles, treats, wheels, toys and lots of places to hide. No one here like to be the one to take the prey animal on that long, last walk, but it is the only way the bobcats will survive when released.
and this is one of the replies to that response (NOT MINE):
The bunnies in their care have been given treats and toys and have been loved by humans. Better not to do that at all than to abuse the bond they've learned to feel and take them on that "last walk" to terror. The whole thing is macabre and wrong.
I am sure that all rabbits, domestic or wild born, would argue that their life is just as precious. The rats and rabbits we give to the rehab cats were... bred at a facility for the sole purpose of being fed to snakes. Now that's something I really have trouble justifying, but I am cat biased. I always take VIP guests into our live prey room though because our volunteers make the last few weeks of their lives, the best weeks of their lives, with grape Popsicles, treats, wheels, toys and lots of places to hide. No one here like to be the one to take the prey animal on that long, last walk, but it is the only way the bobcats will survive when released.
and this is one of the replies to that response (NOT MINE):
The bunnies in their care have been given treats and toys and have been loved by humans. Better not to do that at all than to abuse the bond they've learned to feel and take them on that "last walk" to terror. The whole thing is macabre and wrong.
Happi Bun
Well-Known Member
I knew these were not loved pet rabbits and Big Cat Rescue has good reason. Their permanent non-releasable residents get fed non live prey. They are NOT ignorant bunny haters going to pet stores or taking well socialized rabbits. They were bred for consumption. As much as I DISLIKE the thought, it happens when conservation efforts take priority. For reasons Ren mentioned getting wild rabbits is not plausible.
Edit to add- I do not know the legitimacy of that response and it sounds silly to me why they would play and socialize the animals meant for consumption. I do not see them ever doing that, it's simply pointless. There is nothing wrong with providing mental enrichment with toys and the enjoyment of different kinds of foods to the live prey. Would they rather be kept in a dark dungeon?
Edit to add- I do not know the legitimacy of that response and it sounds silly to me why they would play and socialize the animals meant for consumption. I do not see them ever doing that, it's simply pointless. There is nothing wrong with providing mental enrichment with toys and the enjoyment of different kinds of foods to the live prey. Would they rather be kept in a dark dungeon?
RandomWiktor
Critter Keeper
I have a livefeeder room in my basement.
And my mice and rats that are used for breeding and feeding absolutely DO get excellent treatment. They are given foraging activities, behavioral enrichment, chewing toys, hiding places, occasional treats, etc. And I DO handle many of my feeder rodents. Why? Because rather than have them in a terrified, frantic panic when I pull them to be culled, they calmly submit to handling and die a very peaceful death.
I suppose I just don't see anything wrong with giving food animals a good life. I don't see it as abusing a bond, I see it as providing humane husbandry to animals whose short lives needn't be made worse by boredom, depravation, and fear.
And my mice and rats that are used for breeding and feeding absolutely DO get excellent treatment. They are given foraging activities, behavioral enrichment, chewing toys, hiding places, occasional treats, etc. And I DO handle many of my feeder rodents. Why? Because rather than have them in a terrified, frantic panic when I pull them to be culled, they calmly submit to handling and die a very peaceful death.
I suppose I just don't see anything wrong with giving food animals a good life. I don't see it as abusing a bond, I see it as providing humane husbandry to animals whose short lives needn't be made worse by boredom, depravation, and fear.
Myia09
Well-Known Member
I am with Ren..I have worked with reptiles so I know the iffy-ness of owning small animals as pets and feeding them. I have 3 pet mice and 3 snakes. While my pet mice are pets, and I feed frozen feeders to my snakes, it is often a wierd combination that gets negative views.
I don't feel ANY animal should not recieve the best care just because what it eats.
I agree that using live prey is needed to realease these cats into the wild. However, why is this rabbits o bold to go up to the bobcat? No wild rabbit is going to go up to a bob cat.
While handling and caring for your feeders is a totally different story than domesticating them and letting them out. That isn't teaching the cats anything.
As bunny people, we again walk a fine line and sometimes it is really tough to formulate an opintion one way or the other.
I don't feel ANY animal should not recieve the best care just because what it eats.
I agree that using live prey is needed to realease these cats into the wild. However, why is this rabbits o bold to go up to the bobcat? No wild rabbit is going to go up to a bob cat.
While handling and caring for your feeders is a totally different story than domesticating them and letting them out. That isn't teaching the cats anything.
As bunny people, we again walk a fine line and sometimes it is really tough to formulate an opintion one way or the other.
RandomWiktor
Critter Keeper
I would again like to remind folks that we're looking at one image depicting one interaction between the facility's bobcats and a rabbit. Rabbits - even wild rabbits - are individuals. Isn't it totally possible that this particular rabbit may have been more bold/inquisitive than the norm? BCR has had great luck rehabilitating and releasing felines so I strongly doubt that every rabbit they put in the pen is hopping up to say hello. Though, somehow I don't think folks would be happy if the picture was of a rabbit running in blind terror with the whites of its eyes showing, either.
Anyone familiar with predatory mammals should be aware that even in the wild, young predators don't go straight from the teat to running down and killing fleeing animals. It is VERY common for the adults to first offer their offspring freshly killed prey, and later disabled/stunned prey, so they can become accustomed to both the taste of prey and practice killing prey without the real risk of going hungry.
The same goes for a rehab setting. Live prey activities do not just teach hunting: they familiarize animals with natural prey, allow them to hone killing techniques, etc. Once they get a feel for it, instinct generally begins to take over, and they become more proficient at hunting. It's a process, not an overnight transformation, so even bold bunnies like that individual frankly do have a valuable role to play in the rehab process.
Anyone familiar with predatory mammals should be aware that even in the wild, young predators don't go straight from the teat to running down and killing fleeing animals. It is VERY common for the adults to first offer their offspring freshly killed prey, and later disabled/stunned prey, so they can become accustomed to both the taste of prey and practice killing prey without the real risk of going hungry.
The same goes for a rehab setting. Live prey activities do not just teach hunting: they familiarize animals with natural prey, allow them to hone killing techniques, etc. Once they get a feel for it, instinct generally begins to take over, and they become more proficient at hunting. It's a process, not an overnight transformation, so even bold bunnies like that individual frankly do have a valuable role to play in the rehab process.
