Jemima - New Rescue - Pregnant?

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BridgetsFlame

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Messages
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Location
Armidale, , Australia
Hi all, I'm in need of some help.

I'm the small animal carer for my local RSPCA branch, my experience and knowledge is pretty much solely with birds and guinea pigs but there being no one else I get the rabbits too. Normally I'm fine with that and I take on the surrenders, desex them, litter train them and house train them and adopt them out with no issues.

But um yeah a bit stuck with this one. Jemima is a six month old sable cross. She's from a backyard breeder who permanently kept a breeding pair together and sold off the babies. She surrendered Jemima and a younger seven week old brother at the same time.

Jemima is roughly shaped like a bread loaf, no waistline at all, and her spine sticks out. i.e. she's not overweight. Palpating beneath her I can feel oblong shapes which if she were a guinea pig I'd call foetus'. She's cranky, miserable and incredibly grumpy. It doesn't help that she and her brother have been on a whirlwind tour of the local cities. She's from a different branch and it took all weekend for the coordinator to get in touch with me (I'm pretty protective of my details as I get enough surrenders as is) so Jemima and her brother have been travelling from place to place.

I've seperated the pair and Jemima is in a metre long pet store cage (I'm well past max capacity when it comes to rabbits, so they are stuck with what I have) with a litter pan (which she's actually using), quality rabbit pellets, a toy and a bowl of water. She's never had pellets, hay or veggies before, but there is no way I'm giving her molasses coated grain so we are starting with the pellets and I'll slowly introduce the rest.

I've booked her in at the vets for a spay on Friday, which is the earliest I can organise one. So I'm a bit concerned about the fact I have no idea when she fell pregnant or when she'll litter. We honestly do not have space to take on more rabbits, I'm doing my utmost to locate more local foster carers to give me room but it's looking unlikely...

So... If she litters before Friday, ummm what do I do? Like I said I know guinea pigs which create perfect furred reproductions of themselves. Rabbits I know pretty much nothing about when it comes to breeding. The last pregnant doe that came in was only a week along and I got her in for a spay the next day, none of us even realised she was preggers till she was spayed.
 
Do you have a shoebox or plastic bin that's a little larger than her? You could put it in the cage with her along with some hay. If she's close to kindling then she'll probably start nesting. There really isnt anything you need to do except to watch her and if she has kits then make sure they're in the box.
 
I have a wooden box a touch larger than her, the issue is it doesn't fit in the cage. She's in a guinea pig overflow cage unfortunately, and unless a miracle happens and I move some of the foster bucks she's stuck there. A shoebox would fit, but she wouldn't fit in one. She has a litter pan which she's no longer using and I gave her a pile of newspaper which she's ripping to shreds but doesn't seem to be doing any nesting behaviour with.

She's turned aggro now she's had a nice sleep. Feeding and watering her should be interesting. Lunging and growling and biting. I had another go at checking her tummy and felt what may have been a kick.

I'm going to just leave her be now. Her stomach is pretty screwed up, she's been doing big globby liquid poos and teeny tiny dehydrated poos. I'd like to give her hay, but am thinking I'll stick with the high fibre - extra kind to the stomach pellets (I have a megacolon bun, we had lots of fun trying to work out his diet, the pellets are the only thing he'll tolerate even at his worse) once her poos go normal I'll add the rest in slowly.

It seems to be the week for rabbits, we had to turn two away today, I felt awful but of the well over a thousand people we've reached out to we haven't had a single person step forward and offer to foster.
 
That's terrible about the lack of fosters.

If you're having trouble with her poop, I would actually recommend cutting the pellets completely and switching only to hay until it rights itself. Though I suppose if you see some improvement then it must be working anyway. The situation with her likely being pregnant is a difficult one. Getting her spayed very late in her pregnancy is sure to be problematic I should think. If she does kindle, you will need some sort of box for her to make a nest in to keep the babies in, whatever works in the space you have may be all you can do. She will ignore them for the most part anyway and only feed them once or twice a day.
 
My concern with her having kits in no box is that - if the space is that tight - she'll probably step on them and kill them. In a box they should be pretty safe, if it's big enough for them and her.
 
Jemima's never had hay in her life, but she was fed pellets so I thought I'd start with something a bit more familiar. I also need to buy more grassy hay on the weekend to start on her. She's doing more normal poops now which is good to see.

I went searching for a box that would fit the cage and I ended up finding a storage tub that works. She only just fits in it but it does have 6" sides, and it's about 8" x 12". It has wheels on it and right now she finds it more fun to push around the cage but she has a box now anyway.

This is Jemima

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/...0151594510742428_2022336659_n_zps96252865.jpg
 
Well I find a temporary foster carer for Jemima's 7 week old brother, so that's something.

I've been reading what I can just in case kits turn up before Friday (I still have no clue how far along she is, but the vets seem confident they'll be able to desex regardless), so when I get home tonight I'll fix the box up a bit better with a deep layer of wood shavings, and plenty of newspaper for Jemima to arrange at will (right now she's just eating it). The cage itself is tucked in a quiet dim area anyway. If kits are born I remove dead kits and afterbirth and make sure they are surrounded and covered by hair in the nest. Jemima will only visit once or twice a day to feed. Make sure my hands are clean before touching the kits and I keep handling to an absolute minimum. Make sure the kits stay together and don't scatter, replace them together if they do move around.

Random unrelated q: if rabbits only feed their kits once or twice a day does that mean that if handrearing you only feed once or twice a day? After months of handrearing guinea pig babies and having to get up and feed every two hours during their first days of life that just seems so strange LOL.
 
Rabbits clean up after they kindle pretty well. You shouldn't have to do much, if any, cleaning. Handfeeding newborn kits is difficult to do successfully, so if she has them let's just hope she takes care of them.
 
I think handfeeding has to be done more often because the quality of milk used isn't even close to a mother rabbits milk, which is very high in fat and nutrients. So more frequent hand feedings are needed to make up for it. As well as the fact that it's better to under feed a kit then overfeed, as that can sometimes be fatal to them.

Usually with tiny poop and mucousy? poop, the opposite is recommended, of no pellets and only grass hay, as these are usually caused by a gut slowdown and bacterial overgrowth, and fiber from hay helps clear this up, and the sugars and grains in pellets usually make it worse. But I guess that would also depend on what type of hay you have available to you. I hope you're able to help get it cleared up, whatever works. I would hate to have a pregnant rabbit that is also experiencing stasis or mucoid enteritis.

That's interesting about your megacolon rabbit. I have two of them myself, and their diet is completely the opposite. They don't tolerate pellets very well, but do best on hay. I've tried several different kinds of pellets and it always ended up in soft poops and/or upset stomachs. So they both get a high fiber mature grass hay, a little alfalfa(Lucerne), and one gets about 1/2 tsp. of pellets, then a few leafy greens. I've found anything with sugars/grains causes the most digestive upset for them, so no treats either. I'm curious as to what type of hay you had tried to introduce, that didn't work out for the bun?
 
Lu can't eat much hay, we tried everything, he lives on high fibre pellets that I special order that the all the buns eat. It's similar (not the same, since I am in Aus) to the Oxbow high fibre pellets. He gets a 50 cent sized piece of veggie each day, and once a week he'll get a bit of hay or grass. Like that his stomach is perfect. We suffered through a hay only diet for six months and he was so unhappy and ill. He's been on grassy hay, oaten hay, wheaten hay, clover hay and lucerne hay. We did an elimination diet as well. He has a giant bonded doe (Deedee weighs three times as much as him) who keeps him up and moving, they both live free range. A lot of fresh water available and Deedee gets put in a crate to eat her veggies and hay each day. The pellet only diet wasn't the first option, we tried all the usual routes first, but its the only one that worked. The few times I've taken him off it he goes straight into sore tummy/hyper aggressive personality and has to be caged because he tends to have trouble getting to the litter pan in time. Lu's my forever rescue, deaf, stomach issues and incredibly aggressive. He stays because I know in my heart very few people would be willing to deal with him and his myriad of issues.

Jemima didn't have mucousy poop, she was doing tiny poops and giant big diarrheay splodges that were getting stuck to her butt. Two days on the pellets and she's all good, her poops are nice and regular. I'm out of hay at the moment (35 pigs and five rabbits get through it way too quickly) but I'll get a bale of grassy hay tomorrow and start her on it now she's adjusted to the pellets. Going to start introducing veggies tonight as well.

But in a lovely miracle, people finally finally responded to my call out for volunteers. I seriously nearly burst into tears when I got the email.I've been racing around like a headless chook trying to get animals sorted. A local spinner and weaver is taking on the two angora rabbits we had to refuse, and three people have put their names down for a foster rabbit. So I can place the three calmer easier to care for bucks and Jemima will stay with me and the little baby buck she came in with can now stay with the carer he's just been placed with. So by the time Jemima's recovered from her spay she'll have a proper sized crate and a bunny proofed room to move into until she's adopted.
 
Glad she's doing well on the pellets. Hay should be the foundation of a good diet for rabbits, so I'd start with that and see if it straightens things out. Usually the treatment for diarrhea in rabbits that is not parasitic or bacterial in nature is a hay and water diet. You may want to get them tested for cocci, since there are other animals around that could get it and you don't know if they were kept in good conditions. Jemima is pretty but looks scared. I hope she will settle in, hopefully not have babies, and have an uneventful spay so she can get a forever home! It's great of you to take them in, especially not having experience with them.
 
Diarrheas already cleared up, it stopped after about 24 hours in care. Cocci tests are clear, that was done before she came into the branch. She's started on hay now and small amounts of veggies.

She's settled in well, not big on being handled but she doesn't mind being patted on the face. No signs of nesting behaviour, though she's very entertained by the box. She's getting spayed in 18 hours, so looks like we should be good to go. She's still aggressive as all get out so she won't be attending any public events for awhile. Hopefully once the hormones settle she'll feel a bit kindlier LOL.
 
Hi all, I dropped Jemima off an hour ago at the vets, and no babies (yay), so they've been authorised to abort the litter if she is heavily pregnant. I'll let you all know how she goes. I have a buck scheduled to be desexed next week, so I think once he's recovered I'll bond him and Jemima together.
 
Jemima was pregnant, only about 1-2 weeks along though, so she went through surgery easily. She started eating this morning, picking at some veggies and at some point she used her litter tray, so it looks like all is good.

Even better, it looks like she may have a home. We had our monthly adoptapet gathering today, and my requests for help seem to finally have been noticed and we have two foster carers who can start now, three who can start in two months, and both Jemima and her brother have interested people. Once Jemima is healed she'll have a bonding session with this lady's rabbit and if all goes well, she'll be going to a new home.
 
Glad to hear she made it through fine. Hope things go well for recovery and a new home! It can take a couple weeks for the hormones to wear off after a spay, so her behavior in bonding may still be a bit hormonally-motivated until 2-3 weeks post-op.
 
Yep we'll be waiting a bit, I wouldn't even let her near another bun till two weeks post op anyway.

Jemima's clearly feeling better, she decided to celebrate by remodeling her stitches. She hasn't actually reopened the wound, but it does now have frayed thread ends hanging out. I've yet to have a doe who doesn't attack her stitches, it's a right pain. I've sprayed her down with bitter spray and will see how she goes. Since the incision is still neatly held together and there's no blood or raw edges I'm inclined to leave her and see what happens, if she makes it worse she's off to the vets again.

I have an e collar somewhere, but would much prefer that the bitter spray is bad enough to discourage her.

She's still not eating with gusto, but any veggies left in her cage do slowly disappear and I've caught her nibbling on hay. She's peeing plenty so shes drinking too.

I hate spays, the first time I had one done I had a pretty bad experience with the vets so even though I always use a different vets now I always feel so panicky when I have them done. All the rescue does have been fine since, the only issue I had was with my own doe. The vets couldn't find her uterus so just sewed her up again. I haven't gotten up the guts to take her back yet for a second go. She has no hormonal behaviour, if anything her bad behaviours are disappearing.
 
Oh dear. Bothering the stitches doesn't seem to happen a lot here on RO, but I have heard of it. A donut-style collar or even a shirt may be better. Here are a couple of threads where people coped with this problem:
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f27/sophie-spayed-pulling-her-stitches-out-32808/
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f18/arizona-lion-giants-blog-72663/index2.html
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f27/bunny-struggling-cone-74377/index2.html

You may want to ask your vet to use surgical glue on the skin layer instead of stitches. It seems rabbits really don't like stitches, but surgical glue can be used safely and it doesn't bother them as much. This is routine for cat spays and I know it is how my girls were spayed, along with all the buns that came through the shelter I got them from. Rabbit tissue is a bit more delicate than other species so the glue may even hold the incision closed better.

That's a terrible spaying experience. I wonder if she was already spayed? Sometimes the spay scar can't be found since it is often close to the umbillicus, and if they're spayed very young, but a vet who really knows what they're doing, the scar can be small and even almost disappear over time. That's a reason they've started adding tattoos to the area in many cat spay programs--a green line tattoo near where the spay scar should be--it won't go away, is clearly not natural (the color), and is in a space they'd be shaving to check for a spay scar or do a spay anyway.
 
DeeDee the doe with the missing uterus definitely wasn't spayed. She's my one and only show pedigree rabbit. I put my name down for her when she was a three week old kit, collected her when she was ten weeks. She also doesn't show any hormonal behaviour. She has what we call her 'nest' where she rips and tears newspaper and pads the sides. It's a giant cardboard box but when you look inside it's not exactly nestlike, more like a giant digging box she's created for herself. She went through a hyper adolescent stage but other than that... she doesn't smell like the adult entire does that come through. She adores her neutered companion buck, doesn't spray, doesn't hump, doesn't thump, doesn't circle. Never bites, never boxes. She's not even territorial, she has no issue with me rearranging her 'nest' or fussing with her toys.

Shes a pain in the behind but thats more because she weighs near seven kilos and I've been a bad owner and let her get away with too much because she's so cute. She's going through bunny bootcamp at the moment since she's got it into her head she no longer has to follow hand signals. Since she's a seven kilo free range rabbit, she follows commands or she finds herself in a cage.

As to stitches, the stitches are the buried internal ones, the outside is done with glue. Every doe I've had come through fusses about their stitches. Jemima left hers alone once I put the spray on. We had the remaining visible ones taken out today.
 
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