Ivory

[Ivory]

I know I've talked about Ivory before but I'll talk more in detail. I'm not going to mince words about the situation. I don't want to tick anyone off, but I may or may not be too "realistic".

Ivory is a spayed eight-pound female, red-eyed white, I don't know if she's a Florida White, a New Zealand white, or whatever mixbreed. She's very pretty.

Ivory was found being attacked by a dog. A lady heard her screaming and came investigate. She chased the dog off and took Ivory to Magic Happens Rabbit Rescue.

About that time I went on vacation and boarded Erik with MHRR. I told the supervisor she could attempt to bond Erik to whomever she so chose. (Erik needed a friend. He was lonely.)

Well, Ivory and Erik got along well pretty quickly. I couldn't bring Ivory home immediately due to space constraints but put her on hold for a little while. She came home with me around the end of August/beginning of September, I don't remember the exact date lol....After some introductory tussles she and Erik began to get along again and it all seemed to be going moderately well. She used the litterbox well and didn't chew to the point of me having a problem with her, so she stayed.

This being said, Ivory has to be the possibly meanest rabbit I have ever met in the entirety of my life. She doesn't bite, per say. She'll nip ankles, but isn't territorial of her box or really of her food. But she is just....scared of EVERYTHING.

Not in that cowering sort of way...in that, "I'm going to come up and sniff you and then run away grunting and screaming madly at you!" sort of way. I was tempted to introduce her as, "Hi, my name is Ivory! Look at me wrong and I turn into a rabid monkey!"

She's a smart rabbit- she very acutely remembers the dog attack. Her shoulders were sore for a few weeks after- nothing was broken or anything. It was badly bruised, and very tender, but not broken. No ribs or anything where broken. She did have a few problems recovering from her spay- but those were due more to the heat of Louisiana as opposed to her. (She is housed indoors now.)

The point of this is, Ivory is, at the very least, a semi-feral animal. I don't know if you guys have ever met a feral tomcat- one of those cats that will never, ever, ever be tamed no matter what kind, good heart you may have. But she rather reminds me of that. She *does* come up for treats but.....she is still terrified of everything that moves. I have to manhandle her to check her over. I don't know what I'd do if I ever had to force her fluids or something of that nature.

One thing that *has* helped a little was a progesterone shot (Don't give to an unspayed doe. Just a warning.) The small dose has helped her to "settle" and "nest" a little. (We did it with a neutered male before, it helped him personalitywise a lot.)

My question is, how in the heck does one domesticate a semi-feral rabbit? I'm beginning to think that it just can't be done. I'm up to my ears in frustration.

I can't clean her. She's gotten better about grooming since the progesterone though....but still, she is just....for lack of a better word....crazy. Kind of bipolar.

I need help....any help is appreciated, a lot.

****************And, I would also like to say this, before anyone helps. I don't *try* to "shoot down" ideas, I just try to see the logic and add things as they come. I got a rude PM about this, and I'd like to make it clear. I'm not *trying* to insult anyone or disregard what one has to say. Sometimes I know whether or not things will work.

Thanks for any replies. I do love Ivory a lot, even if it's not nesscessarily reciprocated.

 

[Marietta]

I guess that giving her more time could provide more clues to you as to if Ivory's personality is wilder than other bunnies' or if she's, as you already said, just scared, and, as all scared animals, she reacts in a wild way. Except from the dog attack, which must have been a traumatic experience for her (just get in her shoes and imagine her terror!), she could have had other bad and scary events in her life in the past (she was found abandoned in the street, if I understand well). In this case, it's not surprising that she reacts the way you describe. 3 months in her new environment is not such a long time for a scared rabbit to feel safe and secure and, eventually, calm down.

Let her feel at ease, make gentle moves when around her, try to avoid any noises, and, in general, eliminate anything that would startle her. Don't force her to accept your presence, let her make the first step in her pace, no matter how slow this is. How is she with Eric?

I believe that animals are not mean, only people are. Animals act in ways that we could (by wronglyattributing human qualities tothem) interpret as being mean, but they are only scared or in defence by something that -in their minds- is dangerous (i.e. your hand in her cage), even if in reality it's not.

Give her a chance, Ibelieve that little by little she'll loosen up and learn to trust you.

Marietta

 

[Ivory]

We don't know if she was abandoned, or set loose. Judging by her body type, and knowing the area, she was probably bred for meat (REWs meat breeds don't go for pets very much around here) and got loose from her cage, or maybe was just set loose. We really have no idea. But yes- she was found in the street, at any rate.

And you're right- I don't she's "mean" in the sense that she knows better and acts a certain way- she just seems to be awfully afraid, and it seems that she would have settled more by now.

She is very good with Erik- trusts him completely.

Also, she was only about three months when we found her. Quite young.

 

[Marietta]

Her beingnice to Erik is a very good sign,then maybe her problem (apart from the awful dog incident) could be that she has reasons to be scared of people. If she was, indeed, bred for meat,she could have been living in a miserable environment.Maybe she was mistreated in the past or maybe she has connected humans with something bad in her mind. You'll never know the reason, but this is not so important. Getting her to a point where she can relax and let you love her is the goal you'll have to accomplish with her. I'd be really interested to know how she progresses and if you'll see a change in her personality in the future. Be patient with her.

Let us know how she goes.

Marietta

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I wish I had some sort of answer, but Clover will never be domesticated. She's mostly feral. She's been with me since she was just a baby and she won't calm. She freaks when we open her cage to reach in and clean or anything. She will come out and play if we put her cage down on the floor, and we can scoot her towards her cage when we want to put her away.

We had to realize that she will never be cuddley and we have accepted her for who she is and keep her as happy as possible.

That said, Ivory is not wild. She's a domestic rabbit. Maybe there is a bit of hope.

 

[GoinBackToCali]

I now have 37 NZ white Easter Bunny Discards. My big thing is I have never forced interaction. With the scared ones,I feed them, clean their areas, handle them when I need to,always talking in low reassuring tones. Most are scared, almost feral when I get them. Almost all come around, in their own time. If they havn't decided to talk to me yet, they just aint got nothin to say yet.

I learned along time ago, with cats, if you don't immediately walk into a room and try to be a cat's friend, but let them size you up, in their own time, the usually warm up to you. I find it to be true with other animals as well.

But sometimes, it takes time... lots of time...

This really isn't helpful... but I think little Ivory's soul is just wounded.. and she's just sizing you up.. and she's on one of those *extended time release* plans.

As for the rude PM.. yeah, I got a rude hate mail from a person here on my motives, who did not even know me, or my motives, so disregard it..only you know your heart and your motives, everybody else's opinion is inconsequential.

Zin

 

[BlueGiants]

Ivory had a lot of very negative things happen to her in her short life. Only 3 months old, questionable "beginnings", loose in the wild, attacked by a dog, dropped in a shelter, started bonding to Eric, lost Eric, re-homed with you (FOUND Eric, but in a new environment!)... and she's only been with you for 3 months... She's not mean, she's scared and defensive....

I knew a dog trainer that used to say it took twice as long to undo a bad experience as it took to create it. So if she was miserable for 3-4 months, it may take you 6-8 months to get her to learn to trust you. 3 months is a lifetime if your terrified of everything... but it goes by in a flash if you're anticipating/waiting for the next crisis....

I think you'll need a lot of patience. You should document her progress. Make notes, keep a diaryof how she accepts things or changes. It might be ahelp to someone else and their rabbit in the future.

You are to be admired and congratulated to try so hard for her. She looks at all people as evil right now (and who could blame her?). You're going to have a tough chore to change her mind... but patience and kindness should win out.

 

[katt]

when i bred rabbits, we often got unsocialized rabbits that also seemed to be "afraid".

i have no idea if this will work for you or not, but i thought it would be at least worth it just to put out there what we always did in that situation.

the biggest thing we found was that rabbits, even scared ones are still uber curious. they might not want to know about you, but they want to know about what you are doing.

normally we just spent calm time with them while they were out running in the room, or on a bed, couch, empty bathtub with a towel in it even. i would just sit there, let the room be quiet, no tv, radio, talking, just quiet. i would read, knit, draw, ect. totally ignore the rabbit unless they were doing something bad (then i would tell them no, correct the behaviour, then go back to quiet).

*normally* after a while, they would slowly come closer, investigate, the key is that i completely ignored that they were there.

that just seemed to get them more at ease and more confident in being around people. once they get comportable enough with a person, they seem to be more interested in affection.

some rabbits it only took a couple of tries, some took months, but most of them always seem to come around.

like i said, i have no idea if this will help at all, but it is worth a shot!

 

[Ivory]

Lol, just to let everyone know, "Erik" is spelled with a "K".

A part of why I adopted her is because I knew that no one on the face of the planet would- and Erik loved her.

I'm going to have to change their living arrangements a little bit soon- and it's scaring me. I'm scared that I will push her over the edge and have her think that all people are evil.

I think that she does have a good heart under it all, (well, all animals do).

One thing that I've noticed is that, if Erik is coming up to me for petting, then she will allow me to rub her head/cheeks. But it's weird-sometimes, she lets me rub her forehead, or maybe her cheeks. But then if my hand just moves slightly down too far, she starts grunting aggressively, and bolts away. She will freak out if my finger slips a little behind her ear onto her shoulder or something of that nature.

Definitely if I touch her shoulders, or pick her up, she goes insane. She learns well from Erik- she learned to take treats from my hand, and she *sometimes* will allow a *little* petting.

Part of me sort of thinks that she wants to be a "cuddle bunny" but is scared. She initiates contact often but then runs away when I respond.

Here is one of her sweeter moments. Of course, while she's taking a dump.

 

[BlueGiants]

Ivory wrote:

Lol, just to let everyone know, "Erik" is spelled with a "K".

My sincere apologies for misspelling his name. I hope I didn't hurt his feelings. :baghead

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Maybe she's got a sensitivity because of the dog attack? I can touch Clover all over (if I can catch her!) Except she gets a bit nervous if I touch around her bad leg. No, She gets super nervous. She's always a bit nervous. Even when I'm rubbing her head and she's enjoying it - she's nervous. :?

Ivory is beautiful. I hope she finds her way to being calm for you.

 

[Ivory]

BlueGiants wrote:

Ivory wrote:

Lol, just to let everyone know, "Erik" is spelled with a "K".

My sincere apologies for misspelling his name. I hope I didn't hurt his feelings. :baghead

LOL. Everyone spells it "Eric". It's okay.

 

[naturestee]

Ivory reminds me a LOT of Sprite. She and Fey were neglected and (I think) physically abused by their previous owners. Fey settled in over a few months and is now fine as long as I don't touch the back of her neck. That scares her. Sprite... well, she was the cuter, smaller one. The one that her child owner probably manhandled more. She came to me with a need to defend herself and her cage but lacking the desire to actually hurt anyone, and also a very bad fear of hands. I used to have to feed her treats either through the cage wire, which she viewed as safe, or put them on a small plate and hold the plate up to her. In order to do health checks and nail trims, I had to scoop her up very quickly and have James hold her. I even had to use a blanket to catch her a few times. And a few times I had to stop grooming quickly because she was hyperventilating so bad.

I had Sprite for two years before she died. And she did learn to like people a lot, just not their hands. Hands were the enemy. It took her a little while to even be ok with me petting Fey while she was there, she used to smack my hand and then mount Fey! Having said that, in time she started to play games by tugging on my pants or jumping on my back and shoulders, sometimes even licking my hair, nose, or eyebrows. We turned part of her aggression into a game. If she was in her cage while I was cleaning and she didn't want to go out, I would hand her a noisy toy like plastic baby keys. At first she would attack it and grunt and charge at me. But eventually she decided it was more fun to play fetch- she throws and I fetch.

Last summer, Sprite did start to become interested in being petted and let me stroke her once or twice while I was petting Fey, but then she would get fear in her eyes and run away. When she was dying, one of the reasons why I knew she was terribly sick was that she didn't even flinch when I touched her. Like I said, hands were the enemy.

Will Ivory ever be a normal, well-adjusted bun? Maybe, maybe not. But keep trying. Most of what I did was just let her choose whether or not she wanted to be near me. Sit or lay on the floor with her, feed her treats with your hand. Always give a treat after you pick her up. Try handing toys to her, especially if she likes to throw things. Pet Erik in her sight and talk to both of them. You're already way ahead of the game since she allows you to touch her sometimes.

I know it seems hard now, but I know from Sprite that it is possible to have a deep, two-way friendship with a "damaged" rabbit. Not a day goes by where I don't think of her and miss her.

 

[Ivory]

RIP little Spritely, she was such a beautiful rabbit. She loved you very much.

I hope Ivory comes around. I think I'll keep a diary as to her progress.

 

[Haley]

It really makes me angry to hear you have received negative PMs about this sort of thing. This forum is about sharing information that will benefit the rabbits. I hate to hear that people arent open to others doing so. Im so sorry for that.

Anyway, you have received some great advice in this thread. Ivory has been through a lot and shes so lucky that you allowed her to come into you and Erik's lives. Sometimes bunnies who have such trauma will never come around and truly trust humans, but we just do what we can to help them to live a semi-normal life.

Mr. Tumnus was found in the wild and he was pretty traumatized. He still does not trust us and wont often come around me if given an option. Hes not mean, just antisocial. I just let him do his own thing most of the time.

It sounds like youre doing all the right things for Ivory. Sitting with her in calm, unthreatening situations will help her to trust you. Also seeing you with Erik should help her over time as well.

What kind of changes to the living situation will you be making? Maybe we can help figure out a way to help make the transition smooth for her?

 

[Ivory]

She is going from a free-range room rabbit to a large-but-still-more-enclosed-ex-pen-cage rabbit. Sort of like an NIC cage, but she broke out of the last NIC pen I attempted to make, so we're going with more heavy-duty stuff. I'm making one of those habitats like on the Bunny Bunch Boutique.

She and Erik will still have an immense amount of room, but I think it'll be better for all of us (rabbits and myself and my furniture) if we do this.

Any suggestions for this would be well appreciated.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I think that I would brace the pen with some bricks or something. Tony moves our Xpen all the time if we don't. I have to just shove it against our hearth with a case of cokes or a chair. Since yours will be more permenant in everyday use, you could actually tether it to a good brick or something in at least a couple of corners.

I hope Ivory does better. She sounds just adorable but so scared.

She's also extremely beautiful!

 

[Ivory]

Lol, she really is relatively weird, and sometimes it's kind of funny when she starts grunting. People keep asking me why I didn't take in a nicer more cuddly bunny like Lavender (who, by the way, is back up for adoption) or Bentley (who has been adopted.)

I don't know why I wanted to take her, but I just did.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

The same reason I love my Bo - he's rotten. and My Dakota - he's a big brat sometimes - they aren't boring!

I think grunting and being a goof is adorable! LOL!

 

[Haley]

Oh that sounds fine for them! She'll be fine as long as she still has room to move aroundand things to hide in. I think what I would do is gradually limit her free roam time starting now. Maybe start by penning them up a few hours, then increase it, etc.

Tumnus HATES being in his condo and run, he loves being free roam bc he knows I cant catch him but he's had to cope. I just give him lots of things to hide under and behind and he's ok with that.

Some good ideas for hidey things are big boxes with holes in them orputting a blanket over one part of the pen.

Who knows, she might even like the security of having smaller boundaries to establish as her own.