Introduction

[Nes]

As I've been hanging out alot aroud here lately & as I relate bits of my bunny story I'm a little worried people are going to be confused when I say this or that so I'd like to set the record straight about my rabbits .

In october I bought myself two female mini rex's while I was at college (hid them in the dormroom b/c of no pets rule ). I researched very carefully about what breed and which rabbitry I wanted because I was buying them as pets but I like to buy responsibly and I figured over the summer I might breed them and maybe show. I used to breed show bettas (fish).

Things changed and in december I moved in with some other girls off-campus. In february we broke apart and one girl left her pets when she moved out of the country. This included two male rabbits (a lop & dutch I named Bert & Ernie because they really LOVED each other) and her dog & 4 puppies. I moved into a 1 bedroom appartment with them, 3 cats & my 2 bunnies. IT WAS BEDLEM!!! Unknown to me the roomates had let the male & female bunnies "Play" one day because the males needed some "action"...

So a month after I move into my appartment lacy hops out of the bin she was living in and has her kits in my bedroom. She was living in a bin b/c I had to get out of my old house VERY fast (the roomate had let her dog make a mess of the house while I had been in ottawa looking for a new place and the landlord was NOT happy) so I couldn't bring the 6'x2' cage I had made for them. The males were living in my bathtub and then the closet...

Anyway so Lacy had four kits that night and I wasn't there. My cat's got a hold of three of them, all except dewy who had crawled between my bed & the wall. He had a few scratches but was alive. I carried the guy around in my bra for 2 days, laid him on waterbottles & towels at night, rubbed him with a wet cloth to relieve him & fed him as much baby formula as he would eat; but the second morning he had crawled away from the warmth and died .

After that I still had 4 bunnies running around the house - it was SO hard keeping the boys from the girls and the girls from the boys!! Especially with out cages for any of them. I was hoping to find the boy a new home but I had my hand's full & having just moved and quit my jobs I had NO money for cages. On top of that I had 4 puppies to keep quiet & a mom dog that was so disturbed and uprooted she kept having accidents in my appartment. If you've never had puppies - they are cute but the poo ALL The time & it STINKS!!! It was full time work keeping up with the mess.

A month after I moved in I got an eviction warning from my landlord to the puppies were homed the next day. We kept one, two went to good homes & the mom and one pup went to the humane society (and I heard back they both found great places). The last straw with the bunnies came when one of the male bunnies bit my boyfriend. It was DEEP and he has a scar from it :X so they went to the humane society.

2 months after the male rabbits left (just my luck!! one week earlier and we would have been free!!) the bunnies gave birth again. Cagney was HUGE and gave birth to three (2 boys, 1 girl) HUGE babies (they looked like they were a week old already!!) and a day later her sister gave birth to four regular sized babies (2 boys, 2 girls). They both birthed in their igloo & suprisingly raised their babies together!! No fighting at all!! VERY cute to see! The babies grew fast!! After all they were getting 4 meals a day

After the kits were 6 weeks old ALL the rabbits got moved into an outdoor pen at my boyfriend's house. It was great - lots of fresh air & they even dug a warren!! It was VERY cute. We kept one female rabbit from Cagney's babies (Abigale), 1 male went to a family, 1 female went to a girl, 2 rabbits went to the pet store. We lost two of the other rabbits to my boyfriend's dog One day (when they were NOT supposed to be back there unsupervised!) they were left out and since my rabbits grew up with dogs they are not scared of them. It looks like the dogs dug out a path under the pen, then the rabbits came out to see what was going on & well... It was VERY sad .

So anyway I now have three rabbits & it looks like my females are pregnant again (I'm expecting this weekend if not next) which means they were impregnated by their son!! And I'm sure I know which one of them it was . It's frustrating because I thought we had seperated them early enough... but I guess not.

Anyway - that's my sad story I just don't want people thinking I'm totally nuts (even though I kinda am) or that I've been reckless with my rabbits.

My bunnies are now:

Cagney, Tan with white paws & some neat freackling in her coat
Lacy, BW broken
Abigale my lop x rex brown & white broken - although her ears are turning black! (cool!!)

Cagney & Lacy are pedigree bunnies from Spencervill rabbitry - they are both VERY nice rabbits & as I heard when I bought them, could have been show rabbits but they got picked on in their cage & were missing some hair when I got them.

I hope that once we (my boyfriend and I) buy our farmhouse (the puppy needs room to run I would like to buy a mini rex buck and actually breed mini rex (they are my favourite!!) on purpose .

Other then that I have 2 cats (see 3 above - my older cat (17) died in the middle of all this too :cry2, and our puppy Madison. Also I own a horse - but she doesn't live at the apartment

TY & Talk to Y'all Soon.
Nes.
:rabbithop

 

[ilovetegocalderon]

:shock: Wow. That's quite a story. I hope you and your boyfriend have figured out an effective way to keep all the animals separated properly now. Must have been extremely difficult for you.

 

[jordiwes]

Sounds like it's time to spay and neuter your rabbits. Then perhaps you could house some of your bunnies together. Not to mention the health benefits.

You might want to check out some of the links on raising baby rabbits, housing and nutrition.

You can make some cool large cages for a fraction of the cost that you would pay at a pet store.

 

[Pipp]

I've stayed quiet all morning :lipsrsealed, but I can't anymore. Yes, you were/are reckless with your rabbits. No matter where or how you choose to lay the blame, just a cursory look at your post shows that at least six died awful deaths, for all you know, more may be euthanized,the pet store bunnies could be snake food... the list goes on.

Nes, they're under YOUR watch. No matter how all thathappened,all those animals only have you to keep them safe. If you had unaltered rabbits living anywhere near each other, or even acquired and kept unaltered animals without the resources to spay and neuter,that's ultimately irresponsible, no matter how good the intentions.

I wasthe same way when I was your age, I loved my animals, but didn't have the resources, and yes, the responsiblity, to properly care for them, and it's something I sincerely regret. Every kitten that ended up at the pound, or died because of something I inadvertently did or didn't do,still haunts me.

It's a far better thing to just contact a Rescue center (try to avoid the Humane Society if at all possible) from the get-go, longbefore it every reaches the stagesyou've described. It may seem you're abandoning them at the time, but ultimately, it's by far the best thing you could havedone.

It's probably mostly too late for Nes, but for anybody else reading this, please for the love of life, surrender your unaltered animals. Immediately.

I'm going to go have a good cry for those bunnies now.:sad:



sas :cry2and her babies :bunny5:bunny5:bunny5:bunny5:bunny5

EDIT: This sounds a little harsher than I intended.I know Nes really cares for them and the results certainly weren't intentional -- she seems really nice -- but as they say,the best intentions of mice and men...

 

[TinysMom]

Wow - my mom always says that truth is more interesting than fiction - and she sure is right! Sounds like you've had quite an experience!

Good luck with the babies when they're born...maybe the mamas will be kind and only have one or two (ha).

Just remember this time to separate the bucks out at an early age - by 8 weeks I'd say. Believe it or not - I've had a 9 week old buck impregnant a doe...so their "man parts" can drop early.

I've found that does can live together fairly well if they're of the right temperment...so that should work out pretty well for you and hopefully - no more litters after this one.

Everyone makes mistakes....as long as we learn from them and move on to not repeat them ~ then life is so much better.

Peg

 

[Haley]

Pipp is right (and I commendher for her very honest and heart-felt post). Nes, I dont want to scold you for what I know was a very traumatic experience for you, but ultimately, as Pipp said, you were responsible.

I know that right now you only have females, but the thought of you taking in males and breeding them really scares me. You sound like you are in over your head with all these animals. I think it would be best to just stick with the girls and make sure you are giving them the kind of care, treatment, and love they deserve.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but the thoughtof so many rabbits dying because of your inability to keep them separated (or have them neautered) really upset me.

-Haley

 

[maherwoman]

I have to agree with Pipp. It is ultimately our responsibility what happens with our pets. In my opinion, they're more friends than pets, and I consider that I wouldn't treat a friend like that, so why my animals?

But, I do agree...these animals were ultimately your responsibility, and in every instance where an animal died, I could think of a few different things you could have done to prevent it. Not that I haven't had things happen when I was younger that were ultimately preventable, but those only number to a few, whereas I think it's time that you do something about this.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh...I just cannot handle hearing that someone took on too many animals (different/conflicting ones, at that), and some of them lost their lives because of it. If you find yourself with too many animals, find a no-kill shelter and surrender them to a possible much better life.

It's obvious you love your animals, which is why I recommend giving some of them better lives. At the very least, I suggest getting your bunnies fixed. It really is better for them in the long run, especially if you want them to live long, happy lives.

I would also wait to get anymore animals, for breeding or not. You really should get a better handle on things just the way they are (if not with less animals) before you take on more. You cannot keep giving these animals less-than-standard lives. It's not fair to them. Please look at these posts as constructive advice, and not flaming. We love you, and just want you and your animals to have a happy life together.

P.S. I also want to say...it was so brave of you to post your story. We're not trying to discourage that...we're only trying to help. Like I said, we love ya!!

 

[Nes]

I don't completly understand the critisms, I do though understand it is very hard for me to sometimes get my points across so I only as that you read my story again, carefully. Trust me - if I had the option of giving the male bunnies away RIGHT AWAY I would have - but I also didn't have a car & for some reason you can't take ANY animals on the OC Transpo even if they are caged (yes - it's really dumb!).

Trust me I take full responsibility for the loss of lacy's first litter - but I had no idea she was even pregnant! As mentioned it was the roomates would let the males & females at each other with out my permission or knowledge back in the old house. I'd been having weight problems with both the girls up & down so I just thought she was getting a little fat & I actually cut back her food . It absolutely KILLED me to see those furry little bundles lieing dead on my bedroom floor - I cried for a good two hours, holding dewy tight against my body (the one that lived). I did everything for that little guy I possibly could, but at the end of the day - you know it's VERY hard to keep baby bunnies alive after they've been regected by their moms. In the case of the other two my boyfriend's roomate was TOLD that the dogs could not go in the backyard because they were showing alot of interest in the bunnies - he didn't listen. Trust me the pen was secure, burried 1' under the ground. It was SO sad, the two little black & white brother and sister, at least it seems they went VERY fast with very little pain :tears2: If I could take it back and let them all live I would do anything to make that happen.

Anyway, trust me I take the cristisisms well I don't think you guys are being overly mean. It's true I didn't do the best job possible - but I was also under ALOT of stress.

Let me explain better - Petcerta doesn't not sell animals they adopt them out, in fact they work with the Ottawa Humane Society for their dogs & cats. If you go down there and ask to buy a bunny they will make sure you are completely informed about the purchase & they do just sell them one at a time.

Anyway you don't give snakes 8 month old bunnies because at that age they are old enough to bite back & severly injure the snake. You either give them very very young live rabbits or frozen & dead older rabbits which you can only get from special stores because those animals are raised in farm conditions to make sure they won't spread any disases to the snakes.

Trust me I won't be intentionally breeding Cagney & Lacy until we have our farm house & a proper rabbitry set up.

Mine is certainly a cautionary tale, don't let stupid friends you know shouldn't have them get animals!!!

Oh & with the cats *sigh* when I adopted them I had the means to spay them, I mean I was concerned I might have to do it a little late but I had it budgeted out to have them both done... but things changed and now my boy's painful teeth are more important (taking advil everyday because you can't stand to even get out of bed b/c of the pain of your wisdom teeth just isn't a life). They have been completly vaccinated & trust me they are heathy as anything, I might just have to sepearte them for a month or two in the fall if I can't get it done by then (when kaos will go into heat).

OH! & I did actually look into neturing the males & I mean they were both pretty sweet (although one did bite brad...) but it was going to cost me $300 EACH!!!! :shock:

Nes.

 

[Nes]

OH I forgot the *funny* part of my story - the girl that abandoned her dogs, puppies & rabbits before she moved away used to work at an ASPCA....


Yeah....

She also had a rat that died of dehydration while she was gone somewhere... (don't remember I wasn't there). She had two mice she actually gave away to someone she knew was just going to feed them to a snake. And she had a female rabbits named "copper" that she gave away because she kept it tied (on a leash) to her bed post or in a box in her closet that the rabbit could barely turn around in & at the end of the day decided the rabbit smelled too much & she was tired of it peeing all over her bed....

At least copper went to a VERY good home with someone else who had a small rabbitry at home so she's in a good place.

Oh yeah & she had a fish... I'm not sure whatever happened to him but I think he died because despite being told a MILLION times to clean the tank she never did...

Oh yeah & the dog gave 2 stillborn puppies (it happens) but instead of barying them and showing them some respect, she left the puppies in a cardboard box on our lawn. They were there for like a month & of course it really upset the mother dog whenever she went out there & could smell her dead puppies. As it was the mom dog was so messed up because this girl had decided to adopt a boarder collie* and never walked her.

*She previously had this little toy dog that didn't need to be walked & I warned her up & down till I was blue in the face that the dog was going to have to go for a walk EVERYDAY if not twice a day & she promised she woud... well this girl was a little on the heavy side and also was very lazy - she maybe took the dog for a walk ONCE when I and our other roomate came with her....

Yeah...

Nes.

 

[maherwoman]

Oh, believe me, Sweetie...I don't doubt in the least, and wasn't lacking taking into account, that you cried for each and every one. I'm not (and I'm betting no one else is either) sitting here thinking you're a callous pet owner that just doesn't care about your animals' welfare. I don't doubt in the least that your heart broke in every instance.

We're just trying to give constructive criticism and maybe help your life get a bit de-stressed. It sounds like you've had a rough time, and I know how that feels and I've been there, Hun, so I know what you're going through.

I understand what it's like to be going through so much, things don't go right in general. I've been there.

We all understand, we're just trying to help out.

I hope you don't think we're just mad or trying to be mean...

We love you!!:heartbeat

 

[Nes]

I don't think you guys are being mean at all!! Trust me, If I heard this story I'd have reacted exactly the same way!!!

Actually you guys all put it really nicely, it's obvious you put alot of thought into what you were going to say.

I'm just glad this is all out there so from now on when I say something like "my accidentally pregnat bunnies" it makes more sense

Nes.

 

[MyBoyHarper]

Nes wrote:

Anyway you don't give snakes 8 month old bunnies because at that age they are old enough to bite back & severly injure the snake. You either give them very very young live rabbits or frozen & dead older rabbits which you can only get from special stores because those animals are raised in farm conditions to make sure they won't spread any disases to the snakes.

Actually, you can. Where I used to work was a PET store, mom and pop owned, and they sold animals for snake food you wouldn't believe. Aside from mice and rats, they also sold hamsters, gerbils, guinea pigs (All LIVE animals!), even some lizards, and a few finches that were for a huge savannah monitor.

That place had issues, and were turned in by someone... :whistling

Anyways, Harper is a full blooded dutch and was ordered for snake food one day for a 16 foot bermese python. He was nearly 7 months old, not nearly a baby. My job also sold frozen and dead animals (gag), and they didn't come from a farm. Most of them were killed right there in the store, half the time they were thrown in the freezer alive.

Okay, enough of this subject, I just wanted to point out that the age and all wasn't always just for certain conditions.

Anyways, I do agree with Pipp. A lot of those situations could've been avoided. I'm only 21, and between juggling two jobs, going to college to be a vet, and running an animal rescue, I make sure my animals are very well taken care off. They get proper caging (Harper alone is in a cage 5x4x4, and is about to get bigger), and Haley is in a cage the same size. I have a dog, very aggressive, but she is kept well seperate from the animals. They are monitored, looked after, and given proper care. And I have around 30 at the moment. This include rabbits, dogs, cats, birds, reptiles, rats, hamsters, mice, guinea pigs... you name it, it's been rescued by me. Even a hermit crab that was living in an instant grits box was rescued by me.

Even under stressful situations (and as you can tell, my schedule is just as hectic as yours), you can either opt to properly care for the animals you have (this includes proper caging, spaying and neutering, and proper supervision), or give them up for adoption to a home that can properly care for them. Not being harsh, just truthful.

 

[Nes]

Wow if I had a snake I never would have bought from your store!! :shock:
Ok responsible snake owners get their rabbits specially - and most people are in here b/c snakes are EXPENSIVE.
& Petcetera is a huge chain, they were getting in BIG trouble a little while ago about birds escaping in their stores (big deal...) so they are VERY carefull about these things since they are under such a close PETA watch.


Trust me I've thought about giving the cats up but our humane society has OVER 60 CATS!!! our classifieds are FULL of free cats people are trying to give away. I know if I gave these two up it's MUCH more likly they would be euthanised then that they would find a good home . We'll get thru it though and the animals will be fixed when I can afford it, hopefully very soon. I'm still looking for a shelter that will do it for cheap or let us pay them in installments - our vet won't.

Nes.

 

[MyBoyHarper]

Nes, that's a good idea. Som e human societies and rescue places will spay and neuter bunnies for a cheap price. We have one here that will do it for free. I let my vet do Harper though, just because that's Harper's regular vet, and I felt more comfortable with him.

If the shelter has almost 60 kitties, I wouldn't bring them there, as you said. Putting them in the paper is worth a try though. We had a stray cat have kitties around here a few times. We put them in the paper once they were 6 weeks old, and even though lots of ads were already in there, we still ended up giving them all away. No hurt in trying.

As far as my old job, trust me, if I could warn everyone in this city about that place, I would. It's nightmare for animals, and needs to be shut down. Don't worry, those who need to know about it in order to get something done, have been informed. :whistling

 

[maherwoman]

Oh, good. I was worried you thought we were just a bunch of grumps or thinking you were horrible. The people on this site (me included, obviously) get pretty steamed when we read that animals have had a rough time. I didn't get nearly as steamed as I have since rescuing my sweet Flower bunny. She is just wonderful and was being forced to live a horrible life when I found her. So, I (and others who have rescued animals) happen to be a bit passionate about the subject.

All that aside, our love to you and your animals!! :inlove:

P.S. You can read Flower's story here: http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=13414&forum_id=6

Love ya!!

Rosie :hug:

 

[Nes]

If anyone know of a vet that will spay/nuter cheap in ontario let me know!!

I would actually like to get Abigale fixed eventually - she's a mini rex X lop & so I would never breed her & it would be nice to make sure that never happens.

:grouphug No worries Rossie

Nes.

 

[Haley]

I was just wondering what your plans are with the new litters you have coming soon....Ive been worrying about the little babies all day :-(

I reread your posts, and i know it can be very difficult to keep things under control when other people are living with you and making things problematic. I can seehow stressful itwould be to have other people messing with your pets when you're not home. Things can happen that you would have never let happen.

It just really broke my heart to hear your story and it sounds like youre a bit in over your head. Having any pet is a huge commitment, and especially rabbits. You are their world and they depend on you to keep them safe. I just hope that in the future you are able to avoid any unwanted pregnancies and keep your buns safe.

I hope you know how much we care about you and your rabbits, hence the criticism. If you need any advice or help, feel free to ask.

-Haley

 

[naturestee]

Nes wrote:

If anyone know of a vet that will spay/nuter cheap in ontario let me know!!

Like I said in the other thread, just call the shelter that's closest to you. If they don't have a low cost spay/neuter program, they'll know who does. All it takes is one phone call. I recommend getting the dog spayed too if you haven't already.

One thing I would like to point out is that even if the pet store seems to be pretty responsible, you have no choice who the animal goes to. Are you sure they're able to pick up on things like "I'm buying this bunny for my grandkid for when she visits me." That's where two of my buns came from- a grandfather trying to be nice to his grandkid who was an absolute jerk to his animals. Actually, getting an animal for a kid at all is bad. Do they spay/neuter the rabbits or is there a chance that your unplanned rabbits are making more unplanned rabbits?

So, for the new litters try looking for homes on your own first. No-kill shelters should be a last resort, and pet stores should not be used even if you think they are responsible. You don't have a choice where those animals end up, and at least the shelter employees/volunteers are there for the animals, while many pet store employees I have met are there to pay the bills.

 

[Nes]

Oh trust me!! Madison is getting spayed ASAP - unfortuanatly she's higher on the list then the cats :\ we are NEVER having puppies again!!!!!!!! (well at least until we've got a house, I've had my kids & they've left the nest!! ).

Well now that I have you guys as a resource is there a shelter near here that will take my 8 week old rabbits? They would be a rex x lop X rex mix - they will be handled like the last batch - my rabbits are SO good about letting me touch their babies, from the first day of life I can move them around, completely change the nest & they still love them! Abigale is the BIGGEST suck & will just lay upside down in your lap waiting to get her rub down (I learned about trancing rabbits from a book & it is SO much fun - they LOVE IT!!).

But who knows - we may get lucky and this could be a false pregnancy or something... I wish!!!.... I can't pick them up to check because they are VERY defensive when they are pregant and will try to bite at you if you go near them (it's more a threat, my girls are sweet and never act on it) so we just leave them ago. Trust me having them pregnant is NOT fun - I miss having my girls run around the appartment and curl up in my lap .

Unfortuantly even giving away the rabbits myself they will find no better homes then the pet store can. There is a limit of good rabbit homes and I'd much rather have some get my rabbit that would go buy it from the pet store instead of getting one free from me (although I did tell people I was charging $10 per rabbit).

Some of the rabbits this store had were actually neutered but they also take in quite a few from local breeders (they had this one lionhead in the back!!! OH MY GOD!!! It was adorable, If I could have just one more bunny.... )

It's very easy to tell the difference between employee's who are paying the bills & those taht are there because they want to be. I'm a total fish nut so a 5 minute conversation with these guys is enough to let me know ALL I need to about them

Nes.

 

[Nes]

Oh & just so I clear her name it wasn't Madison that killed the babies it was my bf's family's dog that was visiting. Madison LOVES the bunnies & really can't get enough of them, she's always licking them, trying to get them to play with her - it's SO cute!!

Nes.