I think I have a ratty invader!

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RebeccaUK

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Hi Folks

I know I have given this thread a rather frivolous title but I'm actually very peterbed by this situation to the point where it is 4.30am and I'm still awake worrying about my bunnies and what to do for the best! I really hope some of you might be able to give me some answers.

My 2 (fairly elderly) bunnies live in a converted shed in the garden with an outdoor run attached. At night we just close the shed doors so they are warmer. Last night I went out to do my usual feed, groom and healthchecks and noticed on the floor next to the unusually empty food bowl was a couple of weird shaped poos - to me they looked like guinea pig poos in size and shape and definitely nothing like my rabbits would produce and I immediately assumed rats!!! I also noticed a small chewed hole in one corner of the shed which might be just big enough for a rat to squeeze in and out of (but then again my rabbits may have simply chewed this hole as they target different areas of the shed for chewing on occasion).

I am really concerned...... having kept bunnies since I was 9 years old I have only ever had one situation with a rat happen before and this was as a child we had one going in and out of the rabbit run and I remember my Dad killing it - not in front of me - but I knew what was going on! Perhaps this is why I'm so worried this time!

I have loads of questions now as it's something I've not really thought of before.
Is it dangerous for my bunnies to be in contact with a rat? I would have assumed so but this would just be an assumption.
Are rats alone or would there be likely to be more than one rat visiting if they have found a source of steady food?
Are all rats the same? The reason I ask is because we live in a large village in the countryside - will the rats we get here be the same kind that live in sewers in cities or a different type?
What is the best way to get rid of them? I suppose part of my angst here is the thought that somewhere along the line I may have to kill the rat(s). I live a vegan lifestyle and would find it hard to sentence any animal to death but then again I would of course have to do it if it was endangering my rabbits. If I'm to catch them is there a humane trap or is that more cruel than a painless death? I've heard from other sources that those humane mousetraps are more cruel as the mouse is petrified once caught and once released elsewhere its chances of survival are slim anyway.

When I found the poos last night I kept the pellet food that I gave the rabbits very small - two tabelspoons roughly and gave a load od fresh herbs instead but I'm now concerned that the rabbits may not be getting any of their pellets if the rat(s) are eating it all before they get to it. It's not really an option for me to remove all food completely because after my son was born last year my rabbits became full-time outdoor bunnies as we couldn't allow them in the house anymore.

You may be reading this and thinking that I don't have a lot of proof other than a chewed hole and a couple of poos and you would be right! It may be that there is no rat but I just can't understand where these weird shaped poos came from and to be honest I've always been fairly surprised that we've never seemed to get mice or rats out in the rabbit shed until now as there is always excel pellets out there and a nice dry habitat with hidey holes!

I just want to get out there right now and disinfect the whole place but I know there is no point if there is a rat coming back and forth!

Can anyone offer any pointers, tips, advice or comment to my questions or give any opinions?

Thanks as always
Rebecca
icon_sad.gif
 
From what I have read about rats it sounds like they might be a problem. Apparently even pet rats can go a little nuts with rabbits. I know that sounds weird (I really like pet rats, I think they are awesome) but I've heard that sometimes they like...attack rabbits.

I would suggest maybe putting some sort of wire on the outside / inside of the cage. The first step is to plug the whole. Rats have to get in somewhere and if you make sure the cage doesnt have any holes it might not be a problem.

Trapping just one isnt going to do any good because I think they usually live in groups. I think the best thing you can do is just try to keep them out of the cage.

If you really did want to kill them there are these little containers you can get. The rat goes it, eats this blood thinner type stuff and apparently the crawl out, go about their business and eventually sorta just go to sleep and die. Its not your typical poison and the little box keeps your rabbits from getting into it.

Be REALLY REALLY careful with any substance though, if it can kill rats it can kill rabbits.
 
I have never had a rat problem, I don't even know if we have them around here. So I'm sorry to say I have no suggestions.

But I know of breeders who have had full-grown rabbits eaten alive by rats. It's a very rare occurance because we take all the precautions we can to avoid pests and predators in the rabbitry. But rats CAN be a problem, so action should definitely be taken- whether it's moving them into the house or just elevating them into an outdoor hutch.
 
I'm a rat and a rabbit owner, I also know my own share of things when it comes to wild rats. "Sewer" rats I am guessing is your scary version of the Norway rat (same species as our domesticated rats, just difference in size and color). Rats are as gross as their environment, and in all reality they like to keep things clean.

I have mice at my bunny out door hutch, but honestly It's rare that a rat will eat rabbit pellets. They are tasteless and disgusting to them. If anything they are stealing the hay for nests.

Rats do live in groups, and usually if you have one you have others. I still highly suggest you "relocate" and usually (like when we had the mice issue in my basement) we'd catch two and release them together, so they have a family member. Rats and mice also can adapt really easily.

Rats will attack a bunny if they feel like they need too, but rats aren't mindless killing machines or out to hurt anyone. If they can avoid it they probably won't mess with your rabbits.

Most kill traps are extremely inhumane, they actually don't just fall asleep, they die and suffer over days. Rats can't throw up so they eat whatever is dangerous to them and just die slowly. Best bet is a humane trap.

Also cover the holes, and I heard black pepper will keep rats away. Also planting I think onions around the cage may help. It doesnt hurt them, they just dislike it and move.
 
Usually if you see any evidence, there is usually more than one. I use the snap traps and peanut butter--sorry, but I don't take them alive. I don't use bait or glue boards as I think they are inhumane and dangerous to the environ. I put the traps out at nite when the bunnies are locked away, place a milk crate and a large cinder over the trap, so the rat can still access it but no other animal can. The most was 12 in one nite.
 
^ After a while most rats and mice give up and know enough to stop going to them.

I still say sprinkle black pepper around the hutch, planet some onions and they hate mothballs so maybe put them around too. Its safe and humane, and there is not killing needed.

Oh and if you know someone who owns a ferret (these may sound odd) ask to collect their poo. Rodents will leave any area they think ferrets are hunting in. Even if they never met a ferret before, rats are so intelligent they know to stay away from that animal.
 
There was a mouse once on Bonkers space. Im sorry of this offends anyone but I killed it too. Im with you Larry, better not alive, especially around my bunny.
 
Lucy500 wrote:
There was a mouse once on Bonkers space. Im sorry of this offends anyone but I killed it too. Im with you Larry, better not alive, especially around my bunny.
Click to expand...

:/ Well the killing of any animal quite offends me. Even if the animal is a wild mouse or rat. There are humane ways to take care of them... and a mouse is even lesser of a threat to a bunny then a rat.

And usually when you have a rat/mouse issue it's your own problem. They are just doing what they do, trying to survive. If you pretty much offer up housing and food to them it's your own problem and I don't think an animal should suffer because of such.
 
Considering mice can carry some pretty serious diseases (We don't have rats out here so I can't comment on those), if mice are in and around my rabbit or my food I'm not having any of it. I live in an old house so of course they try to get inside especially around this time of year as it's getting colder and colder at night. Relocating is not always an option, and when I'm losing (literally) hundreds of dollars in food that's in my cupboards, well yeah I'm going to do what I can to get rid of them. ESPECIALLY when I'm a university student and money for food is hard enough to come by as is. Snap traps and peanut butter here too.
 
Did you know, rats and mice carry less diseases then cats and dogs? It's VERY rare that you or your animals will catch something from a rat or mouse. It's complete crap that the plague, rabies, or anything else that's "a serious disease" will be passed on to you or your family. It's also one of the biggest myths and stereotypes about rats.

There are MANY MANY humane ways to keep them away with out harming them. It's disgusting even people who don't care for them won't even try them.

Look at it this way. I'm a rat and mouse enthusiast. I don't like hearing about them being killed off. There are also people who (My grandma was one) find Bunnies as "pests" too. My grandma used to drown bunny holes, and kill bunnies on her farm. I'm against it, but still, how does that make you feel? Not great, huh? So why is it any different when it comes to rats or mice for me?

Mice and rats feel and reason, just as much as we do. It's a really utter shame that people could careless about their lives. Sorry you lost food to them, but honestly that's your fault too. Like I said there are many ways to keep them away with out haring them. Many people don't even realize they are making it so easy for them.

I live in a old house. We had a mouse problem. We closed off all the holes we could find and took away their food supplies. Long story short, we don't have a mouse issue anymore.

We had rats in the garden too, we used the humane was to keep them away and once again we don't have rats there either anymore.
 
Wasn't it rats that carried the black death? Unfortunately there is a big difference between domestic rats and wild one, and the same with rabbits, I know many ranchers that drown out rabbits holes because horses will trip in there holes and break there legs, you gotta do what you gotta do to take care of your animals. The problem with rats are there persistinent and they come in numbers, humanely trapping can take months and many rats out smart them,there isint much that can be done and you have to protect your pets. I'd say plug the holes and put snap traps with peanut buttet, its heart breaking but it has to be done
 
I meant no offense to you, I was simply explaining another side of things. We tried humane methods and plugged up holes and they still got into everything. So again, I'm sorry if I offended you but it was not my intent.

And considering that deer mice are carriers of hantavirus... They definitely do carry "serious diseases". Though that is neither here nor there. In some cases there is no other option than to use snap traps which are at least much more humane than sticky traps or poison.
 
yamaya17 wrote:
Wasn't it rats that carried the black death?
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From what I remember hearing it was the fleas that carried the black death. Besides people back then did not practice good hygiene, so that's another thing to consider about that plague.
 
MagPie wrote:
yamaya17 wrote:
Wasn't it rats that carried the black death?
Click to expand...

From what I remember hearing it was the fleas that carried the black death. Besides people back then did not practice good hygiene, so that's another thing to consider about that plague.
Click to expand...

^^ THIS! Exactly! The rats didn't cause it, and in fact humans brought it onto them selves form lack of hygiene and such.

They are actually starting to find out that the black plague may have been passable from people to people as well. More rats died from the plague then people did...

She didn't do it for her animals, she didn't even have animals. She did it because she didn't like rabbits. Rats also aren't very different then our pets. I know y fair share of both animals, and our domesticated rats are the same exact species as our wild ones.

I never said they didn't carry diseases, I said they carry less diseases then cats and dogs. I also have never heard of anyone catching a massive disease from a rat/mouse infestation.
 
THIS!
And considering that deer mice are carriers of hantavirus... They definitely do carry "serious diseases". Though that is neither here nor there. In some cases there is no other option than to use snap traps which are at least much more humane than sticky traps or poison.
Click to expand...

and THIS!

Unfortunately there is a big difference between domestic rats and wild one, and the same with rabbits.
Click to expand...

Im sorry, but wild rats and mice DO carry a lot of diseases and I think that none of us who have had them in our homes caused because its "our problem" nor are we "pretty much offer up housing and food to them". The truth is they are a pest, just like cockroaches, and I am absolutely doing everything I can to protect my pet from a pest. Wild rabbits can become a pest too. Its great that you love rats and mice as pets, I like them too, but its very different with wild ones. None of us here tried to offend you in any way, and I think you are being unfair by judging us because we did what we think best for our pets.
That being said, I think we are getting into a sticky subject and I suggest we just agree to disagree and end it here.
 
What I do (i hate killing any animals for they don't mean any harm and they have their own family) is i get a bucket and fill it with some food/ seeds. (not a very tall bucket. then a get a wooden board and lean it up against the bucket. i've actually caught more rats/mice this way then a normal mouse trap. i've even caught some chipmunks! :) After i catch them i move them to a woods! it works so well! i can't bear to see a helpless animal that isn't that big of a harm die ): i'd feel terrible because their only trying to stay a live

-Ashley
 
Okay people, pay attention. Rats were the vehicle that spread the "Black Plague" from city to city and port to port. It was transported by fleas from the rats to humans. Still exists today in this country and is present in Chipmunks and ground squirrels too. Just like Nile Virus--it comes from a mosquito biting some thing such as a bird that is infected and then biting a human. Some, but not all virus and bacterium can use animals other than humans as hosts and transports. However, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we have strayed slightly off topic.
 
The intent of the original post from Rebecca was to find a way to remove the rats from her bunny's cage area, not to have a heated discussion on the origin of the black plague or whether or not it is morally right to put the rats/mice to sleep.

In saying that, Rebecca, has your problem been sorted out? I had this problem with mice which were getting in through the bars and eating Rocky's pellets. They were leaving droppings everywhere in there too which was a worry for things like worms etc. and if they might bite Rocky which would cause infections that I probably wouldnt notice under all that fur.

All I can suggest is trying different techniques to remove them and see what works best, and in the mean time fix up the cage so that they rats/mice cant squeeze in through the bars or whatever.

I dont like the thought of choosing one life over another either but if it came to it I would choose to protect my own first, I would do the same for my children and Rocky is no exception.

I have heard that the blocks you can get for the rats to chew are actually quite humane and that they dont cause the animal pain. I have not researched this though and you have no control over where the animal lays to rest which leave it open for diseases or bacteria to get around. And their poo turns green with the stuff so it might not be safe if they are pooing in your bunny's cage.

Hope it all works out :)
 
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