How to Socialize!

[Lady_TOX]

Okay so I have two buns one is 2 years old (as im told) and one is 7 weeks. (Mum and Kit). When it comes to the Kit, he/she is very sociable, it doesn't mind being petted or held (mostly) and she/he is very easy to socialize with.
When it comes to my Yuki, the momma she doesn't like to be touched! like at all. She gets mad at me when I hold her for even a couple minuets, She runs away from me when I'm not even going to pick her up im just moving about in my room. I know not all Rabbits like being held, so what do you guys do to socialize with a rabbit who doesnt like to be touched?
I think it was easy with the baby because I've had her since she was born! But the momma, I've only had her since December 6th. I know she likes it here because she flops on my bed, she runs around all happily, she does her own kind of binking, Its just trying to socialize her is difficult. I feel bad when I pet the kit, cause I feel like im ignoring Yuki. Any Ideas on what I should Do??? I want to make sure both of my buns Needs are meet!
I'm thinking that wherever my Bun came from originally didn't give her a lot of love. I got her from a shelter so I don't know her history with Humans before the shelter.

 

[JBun]

I think what will work best is sitting on the floor with them and just let Yuki do her own thing, and you do yours. You essentially 'ignore' her, though you aren't really. You just aren't trying to reach out to pet her or pick her up. You let her run about and play, and you can read a book, be on your laptop or tablet, or even play with her baby. Yuki seeing you petting and playing with the baby can actually help her learn to trust you more and be more comfortable around you. If she approaches you and is comfortable coming up to you, you can slowly reach out your hand to let her smell, and eventually she may start allowing you to pet her and even want to lay down by you. Using her daily treats/veggies and even her daily portion of pellets, can be good bribes for getting a reluctant bun to interact with you more. Some people have even found using treats to train their bun to do tricks, can help form a closer bond as well. Just remember not to over do the sugary/starchy treats. If she really likes her pellets, those are perfect to use, as it doesn't add extra sugar to her diet, and is something she would normally get anyways.

I've found that house rabbits that aren't stuck in a small cage, that have a lot of freedom, and aren't the cuddly type, don't usually like being picked up and handled and need time to learn to trust you. In time once she feels sure you aren't always going to try and 'grab' hold of her, then she will learn to trust you more and be more accepting of petting and may even learn to like cuddles. It is good for you to be comfortable knowing how to pick up and handle your buns confidently, as it is necessary for some things like taking to the vet, nail trims, etc., but while you are trying to build trust with Yuki, it will be best to limit handling her to only when necessary. All rabbits are different, and with some they learn to trust you right off, and with others it can take a lot of time and effort to earn their trust.

This link also has some good tips on how to bond with your bun.
http://www.flashsplace.webs.com/bondingwithyourbunny.htm

With the baby, enjoy the cuddles while you can, but be prepared once she hits her teenage phase, that she may stop liking the cuddling and be more like her mom. Doesn't always happen, but it is something that occurs frequently. There are lots of 'why isn't my bunny cuddly anymore' threads.

 

[Lady_TOX]

Thanks a lot, that helped been playing video games in my room and she comes up to me and sniffs me and then goes back to what she was doing, if I try to hold my hand out for her to sniff she runs. I had some progress with her when I gave her a rabbit cookie she let me pet her as she ate it from my hand. she loves trying to yank it from me tho lol

 

[Lady_TOX]

So I dont know if this is a positive step, but today my Mother went in for her "Daily" vist with my buns and she tried petting Yuki (Who ALWAYS ends up running) was able to pet her after slowly showing her hand and reaching to her. Okay sounds good, really good, I was watching Yuki tho and it seemed like she was cowering.. I was kinda worried about that. Is that normal? I tried taking a pic but she stopped being that way after I stop petting her. But I do have a pic of my kit cuddling with her mum and the stance my kit is in is exactly the way Yuki was when we where petting her.
The way the Kit is in the pic is how she was.

 

[Blue eyes]

You can tell if a rabbit is scared by their eyes. They will be very wide open if they are scared.

JBun hit it all on the head. Letting Yuki dictate when she is willing to be pet (while on the floor -- not being picked up) will allow her to learn that you are "safe."

I also would second that fair warning about babies being typically docile and easy to handle until those hormones kick in. Then she may very well be like her mother.

Sounds like your sudden "crash course" into bunnyhood (getting Yuki and then discovering she was pregnant) has been going very well. Good job on all the progress you've made.

 

[stevesmum]

When they flatten like that and put their chin on the floor they are saying "I am the boss, you may groom me now". So yup as long as the eyes aren't bugged out in fear I'd say you have some real progress! And nice cage btw, looks like you worked hard on it

 

[Lady_TOX]

Thanks , yes it has been very fun and frustrating at times to learn about rabbits and their language. So far she has gone threw five cords, some of my wAll (very little nibbles) and tearing. Big hole in my screen on my window. Lol lucky she didn't escape then. XD and yes I totally see what you mean by changing. She doesn't like being picked up nearly as much now but so far loves to be petted and will be at my feet playing with something. She loves looking out my window (hence the chewed screen) but all in all I love them very much! It has been wonderful experience to have both.
And it's a good sign? Yay!!! Oh that's a relief! I was worried she was scared or something. Yes no bugging of the eyes she just dropped her head and let us pet her for a good five minuets! and here I was thinking no progress has been made with Yuki!
I have been giving her treats, letting her come to me instead, I don't pick her up even tho I want to sometimes xD.
And omg yes I spent twelve hours working on that house for them with my dad. Then we had to assemble it at my place. Wasn't done till midnight. I was gunho on finishing it that night. Woke up five hours later to go to volunteer at my shelter. Yeah I love them! View attachment ImageUploadedByRabbit Forum1423726948.813934.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByRabbit Forum1423726973.961088.jpg this is it finished btw. Two story about 4 feet all around. A big cube. Didn't think it would be THIS BIG tho. It's the width of my full size bed xD they have plenty of space now

 

[JBun]

I'm glad she's feeling more comfortable. It does sound like she is responding positively.

To me the baby's crouch actually looks more like a submissive request to be groomed, not a dominance request. There are basically three different types of crouching down like that, that rabbits do. There is the 'groom me' crouch where a rabbit is demanding or wanting head pets/grooms because they are the boss bun or want to be. It will usually be with the head lowered, the eyes relaxed/maybe partly closed, and the rump up in a normal position for resting. You may see two buns go head to head in a 'groom off', where they are trying to get the other bun to groom them and the bun that gives in first isn't the winner and not the boss, at least for the moment. Though where babies and momma buns are concerned, this isn't really going to apply in the same way, at least until the babies reach maturity.

Then there is the fearful crouch where they are scared of something and they are crouching very low, including their hind end, to not be noticed. Basically pressing their whole body as flat as they can. In this case their eyes will be very wide open and their ears will probably be straight up, though I have also seen them down. It's usually the bugged out eyes that give it away.

Then there is the submissive crouch. And that is basically to mean 'I'm not a threat, don't hurt me, or you're in charge'. Usually the rabbit will be crouched low like with the fearful crouch, and the eyes will be wide open or normal, but not as bugged out as they might be with the fearful crouch. This is basically done when a rabbit is a bit nervous but still wants to meet. I've seen it a few times, once with a baby bun meeting a larger adult bun, and in a bonding session with a smaller rabbit unsure of what the bigger rabbit would do. Then there is also a submissive request to be groomed, that is similar to a submissive crouch, but the rabbits body isn't pancaked flat, instead the rump is in a normal resting position. A rabbit doing this isn't trying to establish dominance but would like to be groomed if the other bun would oblige, and if not then they will just hop off or resume whatever they were doing before.

The one your baby looks like it is doing in the picture, looks to me like a submissive request to be groomed. Not exactly a submissive crouch(as not pancaked to the ground and not nervous), but definitely not a demand to be groomed like she's the boss. Basically what a baby bun does when it wants kisses from momma bun.

With Yuki and your mom, I would suspect she was doing a submissive crouch. She was unsure of your mom before and would just run away, then she got comfortable enough with your mom that she was willing to give her a chance to properly 'meet' her, but was still unsure, so was taking the submissive crouch, meaning 'I'm no threat, can we be friends', basically. My baby bun did the same thing. She was scared of my bigger bun and when they first met, would keep zipping away anytime he got close. Then finally after the baby was feeling not so nervous, when my big bun hopped up to her, instead of zipping away again, she crouched low and held still to see what he would do. I took it to mean 'I'm a baby and no threat, don't hurt me, and are you my friend'.

This whole interpretation of their body language can actually be a bit complex, and though one body position can look similar to another, it can have a whole different meaning if you are missing out on some of the subtle signs. You kind of have to take everything the rabbit is doing into context. All of their body language and what is going on around them, is going to help you in trying to identify what a particular thing might mean. If you haven't already checked out this link, it has some good info on rabbits body language, but a lot of what you learn will just be from observing your own buns.
http://language.rabbitspeak.com/