How to administer syringe medications?

[macgilli]

Hello All,

I'm a long time lurker of rabbits online and have done a lot of reading and studying on rabbits, to an almost unnatural extent, however that happens sometimes right?

Anyways, short form of the story.

Yesterday, my partner and I picked up a pair of rabbits, 12 week old mini rex. She's had a rabbit before, and I had wanted one for a while. So I did a lot more reading, and worrying (I want to raise a rabbit well and not make mistakes), anyways after much searching for a rabbit. I wanted a mini rex kit, I found someone who had them for sale......

Needless to say, no pictures on the ad, and well rather vague, first problem.
Second problem, we go up to the rabbitry, it is a rather small operation, and having done my research he didn't seem too knowledgeable, actually fit the description of a backyard breeder. I knew I should have said no and walked, however having drove an hour and a half, and spent two months looking for what I wanted, I couldn't say no, neither could my partner as she decided to pick up a rabbit as well as hers had died about two months ago.......She also knew that having a pair would keep them company.

Anyways, there, the person showed us the rabbits, admitted he didn't handle them. I was okay with that, I know scientific studies have been done on handling at early ages, however I figured a lot of handling, loving, and all of that will go a long way. So, he hands me a rabbit, the first one in the cage that fit the description I was looking for.

He talks about his rabbits and shows us a bunch more, while I hold and pet and get to know my rabbit, who coughs a bit in my arms. I'm a little concerned, however it was probably her first time out of the cage. My instinct is to keep an eye on it, however I knew if it was something airborne, it would be in all of them, plus the other ones were much more subdued (Yeah, I was trying to behavior type them in the cage, see who would come up, or stay back.)

Anyways, my partner also takes a rabbit, the sister of this one. (Both are females.) So we take them home, a lot of grinding, purring on the trip back, they seem really active and alert. However, they also are coughing. I'm concerned, first the grinding because I worry about malocclusion in them, as they didn't come with pedigrees, nor did he give us any food to allow us to transition them. (We have tonnes of hay and pellets, as well as everything setup, so I'm not worried, just about upsetting their GI System.)

Anyways, take them home, disassemble the travel carrier and put them into the cage to settle for a little while while we make dinner and clean up. So, after dinner, we want to take them out. So we do, and put them in an area to lay with them, and snuggle with them, and let them explore and run around, which they do. They hop, and search, and chin, and my rabbit even gives me a nose rub and a bit of a lick. I think Nimue's a real loving and exploring rabbit, as she'll let me pet her no problems, is okay with holding, not the best, however I want to get her as used to it and she's passing waste, drinking water, etc. She's so cute, however no real pictures yet as I didn't want to bug them with the flash.

Ava's another story. She explores, then goes and hides in the corner. Doesn't really interact as much, doesn't really move as much. Now, that's normal in rabbits, however she does begin to exhibit a lot of coughing and sneezing noises, both of them do however Ava's a lot worse and a lot more frequent. I'm concerned at this point, however once she passes some mucus coated stool (it wasn't cecals as it looked like regular stool) some quick Google searching showed I should take her to the vet after hours....

I take her, as well as the stool sample up to the vet, and wait. The vet looks at the stool and says its normally liquid and not to be too concerned, however there was raspy breath, as well as the coughing / sneezing, shows it to be an upper respiratory tract infection. So, I'm sent home at 3am with Antibiotics for them, as well as critical care. The price wasn't pretty for after hours, however I love animals and well, I don't want to have to go through what happened the last time again. (Holding it for an hour, trying to get it to move, react, etc isn't fun.). Although when the vet found out the rabbit I had was the 'quieter' one she was surprised.


So the medications;

Batril twice a day for 10 days (It already is cut up so I just have to crush them up). They also recommended 3 parts water, 1 part critical care for them. I have all that, including syringes. The question is as last night most of it ended up on my sweater. So, does anyone have any tips? They did drink some of it. However I'm just wondering how you all are able to do this? I was thinking a bowl or small dish with the mixture, and putting it near them. The vet did recommend a fruit drink? Will that work at all?


Some other non administering medication based questions;

Both tend to grind their teeth a bit, I am worried about something else happening to them. I'm thinking that it is to do with the fact they both have pneumonia or bronchitis? They are a lot, a lot noisier than other rabbits I've seen and tend to express themselves with clicks, honks, purrs and grinding a lot.

Next point is, the breeder fed them pellets only, with a bit of regular hay, with water from dishes. Is there a lot of danger of switching them completely over? Also, I put water in dishes in with them, they drank about a half a bowl of water over the evening, however the water bottle in the cage is barely touched. Any suggestions for this?

I am wondering if I should call the breeder as there was 150 rabbits in there, about 60 going as pets, with the rest. There was no sales contract or anything, however I have the records from the animal hospital......I mean I don't want to cause any issues with them, I just feel like we were wronged. I made a mistake by not going to someone else, I could have done more checking, however they are adorable. I do love them both, just I'm worried you know?

They seem rather poorly on some levels, which looks to be diagnosed, however on other levels they are eating the pellets, not as much hay as I would think, and drinking some water, as well as passing urine and stool so I know that its not as bad as it could be.

Anyways, some advice on this would be great.

Thanks,

 

[Korr_and_Sophie]

For giving the medication, try wrapping her in a towel with her head sticking out. There is a space between the front and back teeth, so you can try to stick the syringe in that space. It does take some practice to get the technique right. I would not put it on anything as it then becomes much harder to make sure she gets the full dose.
Giving the critical care can be a bit harder. It is best to give it in smaller amounts and let the rabbit chew it, then give a bit more. This can be more messy too. I do find that you may need to mix it so that it is more watery so it can go in the syringe easier. Some people use children's hydration drinks instead of water. You can try mixing it with the water and offering it in a dish. Not all rabbits will eat it this way, bit if yours will then that can be good.

For the water bottle vs bowl,I prefer bowls. Rabbits tend to drink more this way. It can be tricky to teach them to use a bottle if they are used to a bowl. You can try putting something yummy on the tip to get them to lick it off and see if that helps. Some rabbits do prefer a bowl though, my 2 tans were using bottles before I got them and now only drink from a bowl even though they have bottles available.

You should contact the breeder. While some might not care or do anything about it, there are some who will try to help you out (even if it is a refund). It is also important that they know so they can do what is needed for their rabbits.

 

[shawnwk1]

i'm new to rabbits (kinda) so really can't help there, but i'm sure more experienced will come along shortly.

i do agree however that you should notify the breeders to let them know whats going on so they can hopefully get their other bunnies treated as well (you don't wanna be the reason this breeder keeps passing along the uri to other bunnies (if they honestly don't know and you do)so at least if you let them know you did your part to help whether or not they get them treated (hopefully they will)).

 

[tonyshuman]

I want to agree with both previous posters. Kate gave a very good explanation of how to give meds.

I also wouldn't be worried about the mucusy stool. That is normal after a period of stress in rabbits, although it is definitely something to keep an eye on and probably cause to give them some probiotics, like BeneBac (from a pet store) or ProBios (from a feed store). It can be hard to find veterinary probiotics in Canada it seems,so human probiotic capsules can be cut open and sprinked on greens (if they're used to greens) or suspended in water and given via oral syringe.

The coughing is strange. Rabbits with URIs do sometimes cough, but more often they have runny noses or watery eyes. I would expect to see that improve within 3-5 days on the Baytril. Otherwise, the vet should prescribe a different antibiotic as many bacteria are resistant to Baytril.

Did the vet have a good listen to their lungs? If they have pneumonia-like sounds you may want to look into using a nebulizer. They can be purchased secondhand for pretty cheap and you can use saline solution or a solution containing an antibiotic. It is an effective way to deliver antibiotic directly where it is needed, and the saline alone helps. Even putting the bunnies in the bathroom and getting a good steamy shower going in there (don't get them wet, of course) can help. This is more helpful when it is a lower respiratory infection, which might be more likely to include coughing.

A lot of things can cause a cough, not just infections. I would definitely ask the breeder if they have seen it in the herd. They should know, and another concern is something putting pressure on the lungs/trachea because it's not the right shape in the chest cavity. This is a pet concern of mine since we lost a bunny to a cancer in the lung/heart area, and one of the only symptoms he showed was coughing. The type of cancer he had is often not diagnosed until it is too late, and it can occur in younger animals. There could also be a hereditary deformity of the heart or lungs, although there's not much you could do about that, and if the breeder is somewhat responsible, they would try to keep that out of their lines and not sell the bunnies. The breeder may not want to hear it, but then again they may be grateful.

 

[macgilli]

Hey all,

Thanks for the advice on it, just a few updates on how things are going;

Twenty four hours later they are going strong.

Pictures of the first twenty four are here;

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150998148985175.783703.659730174&type=1

Anyways, with that, right now Nimue's chilling with me in my office, running around and playing a bit. So that's good.

Anyways, the medication went a lot better the second time, as well as the third time just an hour ago. They took a lot more medication and most of the syringes (due to the consistency and dosage instructions we give them two each.) So that is good, both of them are very active little girls, who are both eating lots of hay and pellets, drinking a bit, not as much as I would like, however they are getting there, we've started training a bit on the water bottle as well.

So today we had them both out in my office most of the night, and they run, and do little binkies, use the litter box as well as play. So I'm happy, the cough / sneeze is still there, and am worried, however I hope it starts to clear up.

Right now,other than the cough/ sneeze, it doesn't look too bad as they are very active (Barely have stopped since 10pm- almost 4am here now), eating, drinking and all of that. I'm keeping a very close eye on them right now as I'm sure the stress was a lot to them.

The water bottle trick of using something sweet also worked, we did it with the syringe, as well as bribing them a good bit to help them out. I'm hoping as the next few days progress that things will work themselves out.

The next step is to start litter training as well as get them comfortable and start building them a much larger cage / home, and get them into a routine......

 

[macgilli]

Okay, now that I have a bit more time, another set of questions / concerns and comments.

The first question is, what's the earliest that these girls could be spayed? I was thinking end of January or end of Febuary to have it done (5-6 months), is December even possible? Also, after the spay, is it advisable to keep them in the same cage? Or should I separate them? The reason I ask is that I know you are to separate them after the surgery, however since they have both been living together, I'm wondering if it is possible?

Next question, incorporating pet store cages into hand built condos? One thing I like about the pet store cage is that it makes it great for travel, we have a few trips coming up, as well as a move, and I'm thinking it would be a good idea to use that as a travel carrier vice a cat carrier. Has anyone done that? Also, what I'm wondering is incorporating the current pet store cage into a condo over the next few weeks? As time permits me, I want to begin to build one of those wire condos in the living room. I do have questions on that, however I was thinking of using the pet store cage, built into the main as a sort of litter area, as they are already using the litter box. Has anyone done this at all, or am I on my own?

Anyways, it does look like they are a bit better, they are still eating, drinking, passing urine and stool, as well as running around. So that makes me content, does anyone know where you can buy a syringe at? One of the rabbits chewed the end off of one of them and I don't want them to share syringes......

The breeder I am going to call probably Thursday (I work nights so calling at 11pm isn't a good idea I should think). To discuss all that has happened. I'm hoping the girls pull through this one okay, although it is just great having them out and around while I'm home. My bunny proofing will need to be greatly improved over the next few days, however it is a project, one that will take lots of tape, boxes, plastic and tubing, not to mention zip ties.

 

[Korr_and_Sophie]

You should ask your vet what the minimum age they will spay is. Some will want them to be a certain weight, but not all vets will do this. Most vets will recommend around 5-6 months as a lower age limit.

Personally, I would just build a cage and use the store bought one for travel. This way you get the size you want at home and don't have to deal with trying to put a modified pet store cage in the car. You can build the cage around the pet store cage and just be able to remove that when you need to. I use the base of a small cage as a litter box for one of my rabbits. I just would not build onto the cage in a way that makes it harder to move.
I would also not recommend using the cage in the car. Having too much space can become dangerous in an accident or if you have to stop suddenly. The rabbits can get thrown around the cage and anything you have in the cage could also be a hazard. A hard sided cat carrier is safer.

 

[rachaelkind]

We have all small breed rabbits and our set up is probably kind of unique. We have (several) ferret nation cages in our den (each islike a 5x2x3 foot cage with 4 stories/levels) as well as (several) x-pens (we link them together to make a bigger play area/bun space...of course you could also use the linked cubes you mentioned.) All the water bowls, food bowls, litter boxes are inside the cages. (Their salads are also served in their cages) So it can be done... (depending on how big a cage you have) We did it this way because we also have dogs and while the dogs don't often bother the bunnies it is a secure place for them to relax/nap and the dogs can't get into their litter box or food bowls. And we use water bowls....bottles are a PAIN to clean properly and it's hard for them to get enough water out. If they spill heavy crocks/bowls you can get bowls that lock on the side of their cage/pen.

You'll likely have to adjust as you go though because rabbits have their own ideas about where litter boxes should be located and often need more than one.

Also, I agree with Korr_and_Sophie that it's best to use a carrier for transport. Most rabbits dont like car rides/trips and they'll huddle together and stress. Ilike tothink they feel more secure in a carrier with a blankie/mat.

As for the soft/mucus poo, I'd give them a couple weeks to acclimate to the new home and new diet. If it changes or worsens, check back with the vet but it sounds like it's just from all the changes in their lives.

Hope that helps (or at least makes sense!)

 

[macgilli]

Hey All,

A day two update.

Well, it doesn't look like I'm going to be giving them a syringe filled with baytril, critical care and water any more. They decided it was a good idea to chew the tips off of them, so its in a very small little bowl, which actually works a lot better.

Last night I had them out for about five hours, they were running, eating, begging, playing and otherwise in good shape. The cough / sneeze is still there, however they are still passing stool and otherwise its looking good.

I am still worried about them, however it will all work itself out. I have to pick up more hay and more critical care today. I'm going to have them out again tonight for about 3-6 hours depending and see how they are going. Both of course are adorable, Nimue's picking up training with treats pretty easily. She'll stand on her hind legs if you hold your hand there, food or not. Ava's quickly finding holes in my proofing of my office.

It looks like next weekend I'm going to be building them a new cage. They are too much for this one. Right now they spend the days (06:00 - 12:00, 13:00-23:30)in the cage, and spend the night out in my office. (23:30ish - 06:00), so they do have lots of time to run around at night. After a few days I'm starting to see their habits and their spots in my office. My girlfriend when she works days will be taking them out of the cage during the day so that will give them a break.

My planned setup is something similar to a Neat Idea Cube or other linked cube setup in the living room as their main cage. The biggest problem for me right now is finding them, I've been looking, does anyone know anywhere in Canada that sells them? I'm also thinking of putting wood framing around the cage to hold the cubes on, as well as a wood floor on it, covered with plastic (for messes) with something else on top of it, probably mats so they can walk and run. (My apartment is Carpet so I don't want them unattended on the carpet for so long in the day. I'm going to post another thread on my cage plans.

As for the travel carrier. They aren't too too bad in the Car, when we took them home they more or less snuggled and mellowed out, whenever we stopped they were trying to get out, so that makes me happy. The reason I ask is that in the next 7 months we will have 2x 6 hour trips (Home and back for Xmas) as well as possibly 1 x 3-4 day trip (Moving.....) so I want them to be as comfortable as possible.


Water bottles, yeah. We change out the water daily, and none is drank from it. We tried doing a bit of water bottle training with them, they understood how it worked, however they tend to drink from the water dish. So, I'll keep it in there, however the bowls are what it looks like. Last night, I set the cage back up after a quick cleaning / changing of litter and they didn't knock down their food or pellet bowl yet (The hay is in the litter box to have them start eating it from there - with a little bit of success). So I'm very glad for that, as its all about the massive cage replacement project that is coming up over the next little while.

With Mushy stools, well their stool looks a lot better than it did the first day, when we freaked out a bit, its much rounder, larger and harder. Yeah, its a weird way to call it, however there is little other way to describe it. I know that its still a transition for them, and I'm keeping an eye on it, mainly because they are starting to go in one area more and more.

Anyways, I wanted to thank you all for your help. Its worked out quite well, and I hope that those two get better, as they are just too loving and too cute to have anything happen to. I'm going to open up another thread today about the cage, and my other behavioral questions. Again, thank you all for your help with this one, I really really appreciate it.