How dangerous are pinworms?

[Cirlin-rah]

I just cleaned the litterbox & found worms in my grey eyed gentleman's excrement. Google tells me they are likely pinworms, which I am reading up on now. The articles I found are helpful but academic. I'd like to hear your personal stories. Specifically wondering:

1. Would you worry? Have you lost anyone from pinworms?
2. What is the course of treatment like? How long?
3: How expensive is it? Do vets generally ask you to pay a lump sum or can a payment plan be worked out? I have a steady job & can pay, it will just take a while since my job is minimum wage.
4. Worms can cross-contaminate species sometimes. Has anyone gotten pinworms from their rabbits? If so did you die from it?
5. What is a safe product I can use to disinfect the litter box?

I have a properly labeled sample & am going to call the vet first thing in the morning. I'm not too worried at the moment because Harrow is eating & drinking normally. His poo is normal also. I have seen no change in his energy or mental state. I've heard loud-as-heck tummy gurgles, though.

He is an inside rabbit. I took him outside once for 10 minutes but it frightened him so we came back in. That is the only way I can surmise that he would have gotten them but even so it seems unlikely.

*

One last thing: I admire my vets & their waiting period has never been long. Critter Repair in Warrington Pennsylvania, guys. If anyone's in my area, this is who you should go to. These vets understand rabbits very well. My mini lop died of fly strike. Was euthanized in my arms. A few days later I received a 'sorry for your loss' card that was signed by everyone there & made me cry again. They didn't have to do that. They're A & B the C of D.

 

[Imbrium]

I don't know much about pinworms, but I know they're definitely contagious and can be spread to humans so you should be very cautious about that... I also know they're easy to treat and I've never heard of them being fatal, at least in humans (apparently, a worst-case scenario if they go untreated in a rabbit is stasis, which could be deadly if untreated).

as for payment plans, it varies from vet to vet but most will allow you to set up a payment plan as long as you make arrangements with them *before* your appointment.

apparently pinworms in rabbits are normally treated with piperazine, fenbendazole (Panacur) or oxyfenbendazole. cost is probably about the same as if you took an animal in for a routine infection that simply required a round of broad-spectrum antibiotics to treat - for my vet, that's about $65 total (including the exam fee, the medication cost and any taxes or whatever). cost varies by the medication and the individual vet, of course, but it should be in that general ballpark.

from http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Parasitic_diseases/Nem_gen/Nematodes.htm
"[FONT=&quot]The presence of thick brown threads of mucus in the droppings can be an indication for the presence of intestinal worms. When reaching a peak number, they cause pain and the mass of live and dead adult worms may lead to cecal impaction, accompanied by stasis, severe pain and gas formation. This is independent from the type of worm (pinworm or tapeworm) in rabbits."[/FONT]

in other words, if he's eating and looks normal, there's no need to worry... but definitely get him into the vet for meds so that things won't progress to the dangerous stage.

once you find out from the vet for sure what type of worm it is, I recommend calling your human doctor, explaining that your rabbit is being treated for whatever type of worm and ask if they can call in a prescription for something (for everyone in your household if you don't live alone) just in case you've been exposed - there's a decent chance you'll be able to get a prescription out of them without having to take the time/spend the money to go in for an actual appointment, since a vet will have already given a diagnosis and you'd only be getting the medication as a precaution.

 

[Imbrium]

actually, from some digging around, it appears that worming medications that are safe for rabbits can be purchased without a prescription from a local feed store, which I can virtually guarantee would be cheaper than buying them from the vet.

http://amayesingrabbitry.weebly.com/treating-for-parasites.html has more detailed information on what to use for rabbits, but the gist of it is that Safeguard paste (fenbendazole, aka Panacur) for horses is what you're likely to find at a feed store and it's effective on rabbits. the site says to "Put a ball of paste about the size of a pea (5-6mm or 1/4 inch dia) in the rabbits mouth."

I would still find out if you could drop off the sample with your vet just to get a more reliable diagnosis than one can obtain through google... but having the vet test a sample that's been dropped off should be cheaper than their exam fee (and they'd probably charge you for the testing in addition to the exam fee if you brought him in anyway).

once you have a diagnosis, ask if your vet can give you a list of viable/safe medications and dosage amounts (if they insist on knowing why/trying to steer you into buying from them, just explain that you're on a very tight budget and would like to be able to shop around to find the best price for the medication).

while I have no reason to distrust the medication/dosage info I've dug up and I KNOW panacur is safe for rabbits, I don't know for a fact that the other medications definitely are (in case you can't find panacur) and I would feel more comfortable if you got precise dosage information as well as info on how often/how long to give it for from a qualified vet... and it's not like they'll charge you for that information, so it definitely can't hurt to double-check.

 

[Cirlin-rah]

Thank you very kindly for your quick reply.

Yes, I read that they are species-jumpers. Ugh. Admittedly, I am far from diligent when it comes to washing my hands! But I will be mindful & start that habit. I do live with some humans & a dog. It had not occurred to me to call my doctor but that is a good idea; I will do that tomorrow as well.

On payment plans: Didn't think of that either. I will talk to them about it. It's $45 for a checkup here & I can definitely swing that. How much would you recommend stashing for an emergency vet fund?

That was a good article. I hadn't noticed any brown threads but I had noticed the dung coming out wetter/mildly sticky. I just thought that was normal. Then again his digestive system, pardon the pun, is ****ty. What comes out often varies wildly even though his diet doesn't but on the whole looks healthy.

 

[Cirlin-rah]

Oh, lovely, another article. Thanks! *hug* Y'know what? My coworker, who gave me the rabbit, also owns a horse. Maybe she has some Safeguard paste lying around. I'll ask my vet about it first, though. I'd like a list anyway for future reference.

I don't see why they wouldn't take the sample. It's a generous size & comes with his name/date of collection/notes on behavior. ...Ha, I sound like a salesman.

 

[I_heart_Fraggles]

You want some equine panacur which is about 15 dollars. I have dealt with this myself and my girl did have stasis. I would get the checkup just to make sure nothing else is going on but you can buy the panacur at a feedstore or online. Just a little tiny bit on the tip of some hay will get rid of the worms.

 

[Imbrium]

I do live with some humans & a dog. It had not occurred to me to call my doctor but that is a good idea; I will do that tomorrow as well.

On payment plans: Didn't think of that either. I will talk to them about it. It's $45 for a checkup here & I can definitely swing that. How much would you recommend stashing for an emergency vet fund?

have you checked the dog's poop lately? it's possible that the rabbit got worms from the dog (for example, dog poops outside but some of the worms stick to its butt. dog then rubs it's butt on the carpet when you aren't looking. the rabbit walks on the carpet and then licks his paws, ingesting the worms. I would ask the vet about preventative meds for your dog even if you're able to confirm that you don't see worms in his poop for the same reason it would be a good idea to get meds for the human members of the household - like with fleas, you want to treat everyone and everything at once to prevent the problem from popping back up in a month or whatever.

for an emergency fund, I generally recommend having at least $300-500 stashed away for unexpected vet bills. if you don't have an emergency fund at all right now, then I would try to put like $20 of each paycheck into an emergency fund until you have a decent sum saved up.

because you don't have an emergency fund saved up at this point and you're on a bit of a tight budget, you might look into carecredit - http://www.carecredit.com/vetmed/ ... you'll want to double check, but it doesn't appear to cost you anything if you're not using it (ie an annual fee or something), so you could potentially sign up for it and get the card now so that you'd have it ready to go if an emergency came up and it wouldn't cost you a thing if you ended up never using it. it works like a credit card, except that it's only for vet stuff (and human medical stuff... I'm not sure if it's always both or if you have to sign up for both separately). it looks like it's possible to avoid paying any interest if you pay back the full amount within a certain time-frame and even if you do end up paying interest, it's supposedly lower than what normal credit cards typically charge.

of course, if your vet's got great payment plan options, you may decide carecredit is unnecessary... or you might do some research on it and decide against it... but I just wanted to mention it as one of your options to help manage unexpected vet bills.

Then again his digestive system, pardon the pun, is ****ty. What comes out often varies wildly even though his diet doesn't but on the whole looks healthy.

can you describe his diet in detail for me (pellet brand, amount of pellets per day, types/amounts/frequency of veggies, fruits, treats given, etc.), as well as give me as many specifics as possible about his digestive issues/poop irregularities?

healthy rabbits are typically *very* regular in terms of their digestive system and the vast majority of rabbits do quite well on the "standard" dietary recommendations. however, like some people, some bunnies have more sensitive/delicate digestive systems and will experience symptoms like you mentioned... which can almost always be remedied via diet changes.

if you can give me more information, then I can offer suggestions on how to tailor your rabbit's diet (and I'm sure Jenny (aka Jbun) will chime in at some point as well, since she has a LOT of experience with bunnies that have sensitive digestive systems).

 

[JBun]

Yeah, I was wondering about the poop thing too. It's going to depend some on whether he has always had irregular type poops, or if it is a more recent occurrence, as that could entirely have to do with the pinworms. Basically rabbit poops should always look the same. Fecals should look like cocoa puffs, all generally the same size and a fiberous consistancy that crumbles apart when fresh. Cecals should look like a blackberry or cluster of grapes, though you should hardly ever, or never see them.

 

[missyscove]

The pinworm that affects rabbits is actually host specific meaning it only affects rabbits.
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exo...ls/rabbits/parasitic_diseases_of_rabbits.html
This is assuming you've correctly identified your parasite. I'd recommend a vet appointment for a checkup though as the feces you're describing doesn't sound normal. Dewormers should be pretty cheap.
Yes, a horse dewormer may be effective, but it is tricky to take medication labeled for horses and dosed for such a large animal and dose it appropriately for a tiny rabbit, so it's not something I personally recommend.

 

[Imbrium]

The pinworm that affects rabbits is actually host specific meaning it only affects rabbits.
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exo...ls/rabbits/parasitic_diseases_of_rabbits.html
This is assuming you've correctly identified your parasite.

huh. that makes it particularly curious that he managed to get it, if that is indeed the parasite he has.

 

[Cirlin-rah]

The vet appointment is for 2 this afternoon.

Well, good to know that it's host specific! Still... you know how people have this mindless, irrational fear/hatred of spiders? I kind of feel that way about parasites. They disgust me on some primal level that I've never been able to shake. I'd prefer to get into the hand-washing habit anyway & take a few excessive cautions.

I'll see what the vet says about dewormers. You bring up a fine point about size, and me being a nooblet at this I can easily see myself messing something up.

 

[Bunnylova4eva]

Ripley had pinworms about 1 years ago. I saw them in the poop and literally freaked. out. I hurried him to the vet first thing in the morning to find out that they {pinworms} are species specific and some people don't even treat their buns for it. But, it is especially a good idea if you see lethargy, loss of appetite, etc. or, if you're life me and hate the idea of your bunny having parasites. I opted the medication route and got some panacur. I think it was dosed something like one dose every 2 weeks or something like that. I forget exactly. They ran a fecal the first time, then again after he was all done on Panacur to make sure they caught everything.

 

[Cirlin-rah]

I haven't checked the dog's poop lately, but I will the next time she goes out. The two don't really socialize because the dog is wary of Harrow, but they have been in the same area/same floor multiple times before.

$300-$500 is around the same figure I was thinking too. I feel very bad about not having one currently but I was just planning on treating him with kid-gloves until I'd had that figure saved up. Lesson learned that stuff can happen unexpectedly. I feel negligent but I'm not going to send him back to the SPCA just for lack of something I can get by being patient!

You are so awesome for sending me all these links, y'know? I will look into this care credit straightaway. The appointment has been scheduled for 2 this afternoon & the receptionist said it shouldn't be too expensive (this time around!), but it sounds like a great service.

His diet is Oxbow Basic T pellets. Treats are the All Living Things brand papaya bites. (no more than 2 a day, which I feel I have to give him to help with his shedding) I wanted him to have hay for a more rounded diet but could never get him interested in it & wasted most of what I bought. Sometimes he gets a few bites of banana or a baby carrot, some celery too whenever we have it because that's just water anyway. He loves celery almost as much as he loves papaya, which is really cool.

Here's the full poo history:

When I received him there was cause for concern. He was leaving 2 inch long cecals on the ground, constantly. I would find 3 in a a period of an hour or so. Ridiculous! At that point he was eating a colorful brand of cheap food with seeds in it. I changed his diet & cecals stopped being an issue, although occasionally I still find one in the box. He had a few stomachaches when he was new here, but nothing we needed to see a vet over.

I've seen some poos that are so small they fall through the holes in the litter scooper, but those are either expelled in one go, then his poo returns to big & healthy, or they are mixed in with healthy poos. Can't figure those out. The size also varies from large & healthy to medium & healthy. Now 'tis the season for shedding so there's clumped fur coming out in it too.

I hear his stomach gurgling pretty constantly. I've watched the area & it looks like something's moving around in there but whenever I touch it he doesn't seem to care one way or the other. This has always happened with him & it would worry me but he's never complained about it. But I think he is more sensitive than any of our other buns ever were. (Our deceased Himalayan mix was like a vacuum cleaner & she never got so much as a tummy ache!)

He also pees a lot of calcium. ...The more I type this the worse I feel about myself. *sigh* Guess I should note for my own sanity that he happily tooth-purrs whenever I pet him & has always been in good spirits.

 

[Cirlin-rah]

His poo has always been inconsistent. It's not a recent thing.

From the comment to Imbrium:

When I received him he was leaving 2 inch long cecals on the ground. I would find 3 in a a period of an hour or so. Ridiculous! At that point he was eating a colorful brand of cheap food with seeds in it. I changed his diet & cecals stopped being an issue, although occasionally I still find one in the box. He had a few stomachaches when he was new here, but nothing we needed to see a vet over.

Some poos are so small they fall through the holes in the litter scooper, but those are either expelled in one go, then his poo returns to big & healthy, or they are mixed in with healthy poos. Can't figure those out. The size of the others also varies from large & healthy to medium & healthy. Now 'tis the season for shedding so there's clumped fur coming out in it too.

I hear his stomach gurgling pretty constantly. I've watched the area & it looks like something's moving around in there but whenever I touch it he doesn't seem to care. This has always happened with him & it would worry me but he's never complained about it. But I think he is more sensitive than any of our other buns ever were.

He also pees a lot of calcium. ...The more I type this the worse I feel about myself.

 

[Cirlin-rah]

Why on earth would some opt not to treat worms? They breed prolifically & always have the potential to reach danger-levels. I have a thing about parasites, ugh.

 

[Cirlin-rah]

Forgot to mention that he gets one scoop of pellets per day, but our scooper is big. I feed him in the morning & It's usually almost gone by the next morning.

 

[JBun]

Soft bowel sounds coming from a rabbit are normal, but loud gurgling isn't normal and is an indication that something is wrong in your rabbit's digestive system. I didn't used to realize how serious it was until my rabbit that I could hear loud gurgling sounds from, got GI stasis, and didn't survive it. She didn't have any problems, acted normal for months. I didn't realize the odd shaped poops meant something was wrong, so I didn't think anything about it and never changed her diet, cause I didn't realize that I needed to or how bad it really was. The loud gurgling means there is an imbalance of bacteria in your rabbits gut, and with rabbits, that is not good.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

With your rabbit having small poops and large poops, it can be a couple things. If it doesn't happen all the time, and just happens and then clears up and the poops are normal, then these small poops indicate a gut slowdown(or stasis), that can potentially lead to a blockage. And with your rabbit getting little to no hay, this is something that can easily happen. These sites have pictures of what normal and abnormal rabbit poop looks like.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/drop/Drp_en.htm
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Bunny_201.pdf


If the small and large poops is a normal occurrence and always happens, then you may have a rabbit with megacolon. It's a digestive disorder that has to do with damage to the nerves in the bowel. It has many causes, including genetic with spotted rabbits. I have two megacolon rabbits. One has it genetically, the other developed it after getting stasis. Both have very sensitive digesive systems and get zero treats(no sugars, starches, carbs). One of them can't even have pellets. They do get non cruciferous and non sugary veggies. They have to have very strict diets, or there is a great risk they will get stasis.

Whichever cause of the small poops, that your rabbit has I would suggest eliminating treats from his diet. Nothing sugar, no carrots, celery is ok though, and other non sugary veggies. Your rabbit really needs hay as well. I can understand having a rabbit that won't eat hay well. Sometimes a reason a rabbit may not eat hay is if they are getting too many pellets. Do you free feed pellets or do you limit them, and if so, what amount do you give each day, and about how much do you think your rabbit weighs?

The pics are of my megacolon rabbits poop. The first pic is normal poop for my one rabbit, especially when he is out running around, that's when it gets the most irregular looking, like this. The second pic is what my other rabbits poop normally looks like all the time.

 

[JBun]

It sounds like you are feeding unlimited pellets, and that is probably the reason that your rabbit isn't eating hay. For rabbits prone to digestive issues, hay is very important for them to be eating, to prevent them from getting GI stasis. I would suggest cutting back on the pellet amount and adding a grass hay, like timothy, orchard, coastal, bermuda, into your rabbits diet. I think the suggested amount on the oxbow adult food is 1/8 cup for 1-3 lb, 1/4 cup 4-8 lbs. It's also best to split the feedings up into a morning and evening feeding, if possible. If you reduce the amount of pellets, he will most likely start eating hay. Just making these diet changes, should get the digestive problems under control. If changing the diet doesn't stop the gurgling, you may also have to add some probiotics, like probios or benebac gel, to restore the balance of good bacteria in the gut.

 

[Imbrium]

I haven't checked the dog's poop lately, but I will the next time she goes out. The two don't really socialize because the dog is wary of Harrow, but they have been in the same area/same floor multiple times before.
Disregard what I said about the dog - I wasn't aware that the pinworms rabbits get are species-specific, meaning he couldn't have gotten them from or given them to your dog

$300-$500 is around the same figure I was thinking too. I feel very bad about not having one currently but I was just planning on treating him with kid-gloves until I'd had that figure saved up. Lesson learned that stuff can happen unexpectedly. I feel negligent but I'm not going to send him back to the SPCA just for lack of something I can get by being patient!
You're taking him to the vet and paying to get him de-wormed - that's far from negligent
Money may be a little tight, but your bunny could do FAR worse as owners go - by the sound of it, he's living a great life with you. If you want to talk negligent, we can talk about the people who describe their pet's serious or even potentially life-threatening symptoms on Yahoo Answers and beg the internet to cure their pet because they "can't afford the vet" and can't be bothered to call and ask if a payment plan is possible.

His diet is Oxbow Basic T pellets. Treats are the All Living Things brand papaya bites. (no more than 2 a day, which I feel I have to give him to help with his shedding) I wanted him to have hay for a more rounded diet but could never get him interested in it & wasted most of what I bought. Sometimes he gets a few bites of banana or a baby carrot, some celery too whenever we have it because that's just water anyway. He loves celery almost as much as he loves papaya, which is really cool.
I consider the best two pellet brands to be Sherwood Forest and Oxbow essentials, so you've definitely got him on a high quality pellet.

the papaya won't actually help with the shedding; it just provides minor benefits as far as helping hair to pass. with regular brushing, it's not really necessary unless you start to see poops strung together with hair. if you do feel the need to give a supplement of some sort to prevent hairballs, I recommend switching to Oxbow papaya tablets - they've got extra papaya/pineapple enzymes added to them, so the enzyme to sugar ratio is much better than it is with dried papaya.

as far as diet changes go... hay is SO important ><

my bunnies were picky little b*tches about hay when it came time to wean them off alfalfa. I tried SO many different hays and was on the verge of giving up when I finally found one they liked. if you'd be comfortable PMing me your address, I'd be happy to send you samples of a BUNCH of different hays that I've got sitting around so you could hopefully find one he'll eat without having to buy (and get stuck with) large amounts of hay that he refuses to touch. I can also send you some probiotics to try out to see if those help.

as Jenny said, you definitely want to strictly limit his pellet intake.

here's what I recommend:
~ get hay samples from me; cut back on pellets quite a bit and keep trying different hays until (hopefully) you find one he likes. also, dose him with the probiotics and cut ALL fruit, treats and carrots from his diet.
~ if you do all that and get him eating a good amount of hay and things clear up, you can attempt to reintroduce treats to figure out if those are the problem or if it was just too many pellets/not enough hay.
~ if things DON'T clear up after the first steps, cut ALL veggies from his diet for a few days to a week. if that works, gradually re-introduce veggies one at a time in small quantities with a few days in between each veggie (like if you were just starting him on veggies for the first time) - basically, trial and error to find out if it's all veggies or only specific veggies causing the problems. if you start veggies again, start with the ones that tend to be well-tolerated like cilantro, dark leaf lettuces and other low calcium/low OA leafy greens.
~ if you cut out veggies and the problems continue, then continue to not give veggies AND gradually reduce his pellet intake until either the problems are resolved or you're not feeding any pellets at all.
~ if not feeding pellets works, you have two options... you can try sherwood forest rabbit food, which doesn't have the bit of added sugars that oxbow does and you can try gradually re-introducing veggies under the theory that the pellets were the problem (obviously, you don't want to do both at once, since then if the problems return you won't know which caused it). if you try the sherwood, you'll want to gradually wean him onto them (basically, the same thing as transitioning between two pellets except that you wouldn't be feeding him the old pellets since you already weaned him off of those).
~ if you have him on a diet of only hay and water and you're giving him probiotics and the problems still continue, then you've exhausted my expertise on the subject and hopefully someone else will be able to shed some light on things. granted, the reason I don't know what else to try at that point is because I've never heard of a rabbit with an overly-sensitive tummy who didn't improve by the time they reached the "hay and water diet" point.

edit:

Why on earth would some opt not to treat worms? They breed prolifically & always have the potential to reach danger-levels. I have a thing about parasites, ugh.

oh, and I agree 100%! I'd freak the hell out and rush to the doctor ASAP if there were squirmy things living in MY intestines, even if they supposedly weren't actually hurting me because, you know, "eww, gross!!". if I wouldn't tolerate that crap living in my intestines, how could I ever ask my pets to?

 

[missyscove]

There are actually some very valid theories (e.g. the "hygeine hypothesis") that our decreased parasite load increases the likelihood for things like allergies. The same immunogloubulins (IgE) responsible for fighting off the parasites are what go awry and start fighting off things that aren't actually harmful which leads to allergies.
In most cases the load of pinworms in a rabbit isn't enough to cause any real harm and since they are species specific they don't pose a danger to human health (whereas there are other parasites that our pets can get that do pose a real harm to humans).

That said, if I saw worms in my rabbit's litter box, I'd deworm them too.