Hay???

[Bunny_Mad]

I have noticed that a lot of, well, all of theppl on here put newspaper, an old towel or woodchips at them bottom oftheir rabbits hutch/cage...

So how do you give your rabbits their hay, i always line the bottom of my rabbits hutch/cage with newspaper then lots of hay

1) So they can eat it 24/7

2) They can keep warm

I find it easier than getting poo off a towel and woodchip, i see nopoint as they don't do anything with it and it's more mess to clean up!

Does anyone line their cages with Hay???

 

[HankHanky]

Hello Bunny-Mad,

IMPO it's not a good idea to line the cage bottom with hay. I suggest ahay-feeder or stick the hay between the cage wire and the door. Rabbitswill ingest the hay after having urinated and or deficating on it. Thisleads to a variety of unwanted diseases. I prefer thedroppings to fall through to the ground or tray where the rabbit can'tget at them. this helps to prevent Coccidiosis. I hope this helps.

Dennis,C.V.R.

 

[mhiszxpinay]

I really do affarily agree with Hank. Putting Hayon the ground of your cage, and your rabbit urinating over it andputting there wastes over it, and eating it, is very unhealthy to eatfor your rabbit. If your rabbit eats it after him/her does therebuisness, they can come in contact with unwanted diseases. Its prettymuch better to buy a hay rack from the pet store. Here is a link if youwant to see a picture of it.
http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441781563&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302026388&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023695&bmUID=1093819125962

You can find it at petsmart or petco near you. Fortunatley,this hay rack is from petsmart. but im pretty sure that they sellprimarly the same thing at petco.

 

[Rowan]

It might not be the ideal if your rabbits goeverywhere and never use a litter tray, and don't have any other sourceof hay, but my rabbits will onlyhave hay in their litter trayor they won't use it at all. I notice they eat the hay from therewhenI first put it in but they go to the other hay in theirfood area once they've urinated on it.

I'm still new at owning rabbits and I'm sure that what the others saidcan be correct, but all the rabbits I've known of over the years wholived outside had hay or straw to keep them warm with newspaperunderneath and inregularly well cleaned out conditions I'venot heard of any problems. In the UK that's the only way I've comeacross of keeping rabbits warm outside, all the outdoor rabbits I'veknown have been kept like that and it's the way they suggest in Britishrabbit books.

Mine are indoor but if they weren't I'd be happy lining their hutchwithhay as long as it was cleaned often enough and they hadanother source to eat from. Just my own views, I'm not trying to upsetanyone, because I really respect the advice given

 

[LuvaBun]

Yep, I put hay in and around their litter tray. Ifind they sit in one part and eat the hay from a different part. Theyalso have other hay which they eat when not in their litter box. As yousay, rowan, this does seem to be a 'British' way of doing things, andis recommended, and I have seen it in rescue centres, shelters etc. Iguess its just what everyone is used too.

jan

 

[RaspberrySwirl]

Hi Bunny_Mad, I'mattaching a photo of Sebastian's outdoor cage. He spends his time splitbetween indoors and outdoors. I thought that was the easiest way foryou to see what I was explaining. He has a crock next to his pelletcrock that is kept filled with Hay. I add to it any time it is low butbasically he empties it daily. It isn't large, it holds a couple largehandfulls, but I feel like it works fine for us because I'massured that his hay is always dry and fresh.Healsohas a towel in his box. I change it out once a week or sowith a fresh one. He will be getting a new box soon that will be moreclosed in for the cooler weather, but he sure loves his towels! When heis in the house he has the same things available to him, pellets, abowl of hay, his water and a towel to drag around. Like mentionedabove, I'm sure it's what each bun gets used to and what works best foryou and your family!

ps- if you haven't looked at the cagespost you might check it out. It is quite interesting and gives you lotsof ideas to consider.



Raspberry

 

[Buck Jones]

Both our outdoor and indoor rabbits live on 1/2" x 1/2" wire floor,which permits any refuse to pass through to the ground or thetray below, as may be the case. Indoor rabbits have a cornerlitter box, so that's where most of it ends up. If any poopspass through the indoor wire, it falls upon newspaper lining the traybelow. I remove the poops daily and change paper when itbecomes soiled in any manner.

If outdoor rabbits are brought inside due to inclement weather, theywill revert to using a litter box once it is placed therein.In the outside hutch, they simply urinate and poop throught the wireonto the ground below.

In both circumstances, I provide hay from racks. In thewinter, if not terribly cold, I sometimes pack the"sleeping/eating/closed-in" compartment of the hutch(es) with hay/strawas insulation. In truth, the buns spend very little timethere, and prefer to be in the "outside" compartment most of the time,even during rather inclement weather, when one would think they wouldbe seeking more warmth. Hasn't been the case.

It would appear that some buns will, and some buns won't, eat soiledhay. For those that do, the danger isineatingcontaminated feces that may cause lifethreatening illness. I suspect this is a realdanger when dealing with multiple bunnies of varied backgrounds andhealth issues, but I doubt if a healthy bunny runs much riskeatingsoiledhaythat he,himself, has has soiled. After all, they do eat their owncecotropes, now, don't they?

Perhaps, someone more knowledgeable than I would have some pertinentinformation regarding the probability ofa bungetting ill from eating its own feces/urine soaked hay.

Buck

 

[HankHanky]

Hiya Buck,

Rabbits get Coccidiosis from injesting their own feces. I believe itimperitive to try my best to pevent any possible means any of my rabbitmight have to cause harm to themselves. Check out thisWebsite:http://www.vetexotic.theclinics.com/article/PIIS1094919402000245/fulltexta lot to read but well worth it. There is a BIG difference betweencecotropes [A food source] and the eating of feces. Explaination wouldprove cumbersome but the website will explain better than I ever could.I hope this helps someone.

Dennis,C.V.R.

 

[Carolyn]

Buck Jones wrote:

It would appear that some buns will, and some buns won't, eat soiledhay. For those that do, the danger isineatingcontaminated feces that may cause lifethreatening illness. I suspect this is a realdanger when dealing with multiple bunnies of varied backgrounds andhealth issues, but I doubt if a healthy bunny runs much riskeatingsoiledhaythat he,himself, has has soiled. After all, they do eat their owncecotropes, now, don't they?

Although, I wouldn't want my rabbit eating soiled hay, food, etc., it'snot necessarily going to cause Coccidiosis if the material it'singesting is not infected with the parasite. I'd be moreconcerned about the rabbit ingesting moldy hay or food than I wouldCoccidiosis if it were a normal, healthy rabbit.

That said, I believe you'recorrect, Buck Jones.As you know, it is caused by a parasite and is a disease ofthe liver and/or intestinal tract. Rabbits becomeinfected by eating feed or consuming water withinfected feces from an infectedrabbit. It is said that Coccidia arefound in rabbits, but rarely cause disease. The severity ofthe infection depends on the number of coccidia eaten, age of therabbit, their immunity strength, and other illnesses the rabbit mighthave.
[/quote]
The best way to prevent the problem is keeping the rabbits' cage clean,having the rabbit avoid infected feces, or food and water contaminationintake. A rabbit can also become infected bycleaning it's feet or fur that is contaminated with the feces ofanother infected rabbit.

Signs of this problem is more often recognized in younger rabbitsbecause of their immature immune systems. As babyrabbits (kits) are normally left in a nest bedding of hay and manypeople are advised to put hay in their litter box to train theirrabbits to go into them, and many do that without harm, the key isthat the infection is there already whether it be in the hay, water,feed, on the feet, fur.

Deaths are most often attributed due to bacterial infections and dehydration.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Bunny_Mad,

I would not keep a towel in the cage as if it becomessoiledit could build bacteria and cause your rabbit to getverysick.

No matter what, the best way to prevent your rabbit from getting sickor an untimely death is cleanliness, fresh water, food, andhay. There are too many things that rabbits are suseptible ifleft in a dirty or unsanitary cage: parasites, respiratory infections;the list goes on and on.

-Carolyn

 

[Bunny_Mad]

Well, i know for a fact she dosent eat soiledhay. Athough she is not litter trained she only goes to toilet in onepat of the cage, and she never eats from there!

 

[RaspberrySwirl]

I would not keep a towel in the cage as if itbecomes soiledit could build bacteria and cause your rabbitto get verysick.


-Carolyn



[/quote]I didn't know this!:shock: Does that mean at all? Sebastian loves histowels...:X

 

[Buck Jones]

HankHanky wrote:

Hiya Buck,

Rabbits get Coccidiosis from injesting their own feces....Check out thisWebsite:http://www.vetexotic.theclinics.com/article/PIIS1094919402000245/fulltexta lot to read but well worth it. There is a BIG difference betweencecotropes [A food source] and the eating of feces....Dennis,C.V.R.

You will have to offer me more substantial proof that,"Rabbits get cocciciosis from injesting their own feces,"than you have offered here so far, HankHanky, before I accept thatas fact. Carolyn and I seem to concurthatit is difficult to believe an healthy animal, who eatscecotropes(which have some similar attributes to stool, and botheminate from the anus) can give itself an illness that was notpre-exising. I couldn't find reference to that condition inthe website you provided a link to. Perhaps, I missed theconnection(s) and you will be so kind as to point them out, if they do,in fact, exist.

I use a hay rack, myself, but during the winter when the hutches may bepacked with hay, I don't get overly concerned that the buns may ingestsome stool. I do attempt to keep the hay clean, but it wouldbe impossible to do that 24/7. Seems to me more likely thatto spread the disease in the first place, one needs to have a sick bunas a vector.



Buck

 

[Carolyn]

RaspberrySwirl wrote:

I would not keep a towel in the cage as if it becomes soiled?itcould build bacteria and cause your rabbit to get very?sick.?


-Carolyn

I didn't know this! :shock:? Doesthat mean at all? Sebastian loves his towels...:X[/quote]


Raspberry Swirl,

Sebastian can have his towels, just make sure that if they get soiled,you take them out and clean them. I know you already do this anyway,and I'm sure Bunny_Mad would too, but you do have to be careful that asoiled towel is removed and cleaned.

* * * * * * * * * *

Yes, Buck, you read that right as to what I was pointing out.

If it was true that they'd get the disease from eating any of theirpoop or urine, Tucker would've been long gone by now because there havebeen times when I've seen him taste his urine or feces.

-Carolyn

 

[HankHanky]

Very well,

your right and I'm wrong! At least from your view-point.

However Feces are not Cecotrophs and cecotrophs are not feces.They arewrongly called same. Cecotrophs are not fully digested matter and areswallowed whole not chewed. I also did not say that rabbit got diseasesfrom eating cecotrophs but from eating feces. However I have growntired of trying to fill a bucket with a HOLE in it. So I will cease anddesist. I wasn't trying to cause an arguement, just trying to help andnow I've learned a new lesson. "Tis better to keep ones mouth shut, andallow others to learn by their own mistakes" No hard feelings I hope.

Dennis,C.V.R.

 

[Gabby]

i would suggest those who use towels wash themdaily, may seem like alot but they are so good at holding and keepingbacteria in that I would myself cnsider it the safest route.

 

[Carolyn]

I do agree with Gabby about the towels and washing them.

Tucker isn't a bed wetter, but Fauna is.

* * * * * * * * *

Dennis,

You know that Buck and I know full well what cecotropes are and howthey compare to feces. That's not the what we're talking about, and Istrongly suspect you're aware of that as well.

* * *

(For those that don't know the difference between cecotropes, therabbit's body breaks down the indigestible fiber their systems can makeand turn it into digestible nutrients. The rabbit has to eat it asecond time because it needs those nutrients that it wouldn't otherwiseget.)

* * *

Your statement was Rabbits get Coccidiosis from ingesting their ownfeces. The comment was incomplete and incorrect as it stood. Pleaserefer back to my post to Buck and Bunny_Mad and his post to youafterwards.

If you choose to take what Buck and I said personally, so be it, butwhere is there backup or evidence of this being recorded as fact in thestatement you make? If you have it, inquiring minds would like to know.

-Carolyn

 

[dreamgal042]

Ivory gets confused sometimes and eats out of hislitterbox... ive checked the litter to see if its safe, and it lookslike it...not really sure what im looking for though...would he getsick from that?

 

[Buck Jones]

HankHanky wrote:

Very well,

your right and I'm wrong! At least from your view-point.However Feces are not Cecotrophs and cecotrophs are not feces....

Never disagreed with that premise, however, it seems to me that anyhealthy rabbit that eats its own cecotropes, which have some of thesame ingredients as its stool, would then develop an illness fromeating its own stool. Perhaps, I did not make thatdistinction clear enough. Having done so, now, if you canprovide any data that supports the position that a healthy rabbitingesting its own stool is likely to develop coccidiosis I would bemore than grateful to learn of it.

I don't understand whyone cannot have a civil disagreement inopinion with you without it becoming an altercation of some sort oranother. No, I harbor no ill feelings toward you, and onlyfind it necessary to mention that fact because your response seems toindicate some sort of need to justify yourself.

Relax! Chill! Let's all contribute andlearn something here. We're all about rabbits and not,"one-ups manship." No need to apologize, nor seek insultwhere none was intended.



Buck

 

[HankHanky]

Please refer to Rabbit Production Eighth Edition

Page 212 [Second Pharagraph] A very effective method of controling some types of coccidiosis.

I hope this is enough of an explaination for my controversial opinion.

Dennis,C.V.R.

 

[Carolyn]

There you go again, Dennis,


The statement you made has nothing to do with controllingCoccidiosis, you made a general statement that rabbits that eat theirown feces will get Coccidiosis. "Rabbits get Coccidiosisfrom ingesting their own feces." WRONG! As pointed outover and over again, the infection/parasite must be there first inorder for the rabbit to get Coccidiosis.

No, page 212 does not support your statement and you have not pointed out something that we haven't already.

First you say infer that we don't know the difference between feces andcecotropes, now you're mixing apples and oranges again by making astatement on how the disease is contracted, then pointing out facts onhow to control it.

Your statement was wrong as it stood. Plain and simple, and you're trying everything you know how to skirt the issue.

This is nonsense.

-Carolyn