Hay Allergy Challenges

[funnybunnymummy]

I know that hay is the most important part of a rabbit's diet, but is there a waythat a rabbit can have a healthy diet without hay? (Especially if the hay is causing the rabbit's ownerallergies?)

Thanks!

Rue

 

[ra7751]

No, rabbits can't be healthy without hay. There are many, including the companies that produce pellets, that will tell you pellets are a "complete" food because they are based on hay. That is not accurate. Hay is vital to the "hind gut fermentation" digestive system. In this type of digestion, most of the digestion is actually done after the food passes thru the digestive stomach. It's done in the cecum....and since that is behind the gut, it's known as hind gut digestion. Since rabbits have evolved to live healthy off of a low protein, high fiber diet....a diet of grass and greens are all a rabbit needs. Too many pellets will result in overfeeding proteins. That will harm the bacteria in the gut that digests the food, it will result in an obese rabbit in which the fat stresses the liver, kidney damage from processing the excess proteins in pellets and the lack of fiber will result in a GI transit time that is too fast. Additionally, a diet too low in hay will result in overgrown teeth. It is not how hard something is but how chewy it is that controls dental wear.

If you have access to a yard full of greens and grasses all year....you can feed your domestic like a wild rabbit and they should do fine. The diet of a wild rabbit is basically tender leaves and grass strands (and hay is nothing but dried grass). Hay blocks are not a proper substitute for stemmy hay. But it is possible to have a healthy rabbit based on what a wild rabbit eats (supplemented with limited pellets). And I can appreciate the allergy condition.....Flonase and Zytrec work for me. I think some people will mist the hay to keep the dust down...and it's most likely the dust causing your allergies and not the hay itself. And I speak from personal experience.

Randy

 

[nicolevins]

Not sure about the diet part. Probably not a really good diet, but rabbits love it and its great for keeping their teeth short

Maybe someone else could help you a bit better

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Okay, so if I put Gus "out to graze" every day, that would probably be okay for him? What about increasing the amount of leafy greens he gets each day? Would that help? And how much "grazing" would he need to do to be healthy?

I wasn't intending to take him off hay and give him just pellets. I know pellets alone aren't good for him. But I was hoping that substituting more greens or somesuch could work.

This allergy issue is becoming, well, a very big issue lately.

Rue

 

[bunnybunbunb]

I thought it was the dust in the hay that causes allergies, not the hay it's self? I know the horse hay I use for my rabbits bother me, but the alfalfa I am currently feeding my piggies does not bother me. I get it from the store is maybe why.

 

[luvthempigs]

Do you keep the hay in your house? If so, Is it in an enclosed container (something like a rubbermaid tub works well)

Do you have an air purifier in the room where your bunny lives? Is there carpet in the room?Is it an option to leave a window open part of the day? (just to help "air" out the room so to speak)

If the cage is in a central living area of your house maybe you can move it to another room where you can be away from the hay (when your not in visiting/caring forthe bunny of course)

Just trying to throw some ideas out there, I hope you can work something out

 

[pamnock]

There are plenty of other sources of fiber in a rabbit's diet. Hay is not a necessity. Greens and veggies will serve the purpose just fine. Commercial rabbit pellets also provide adequate fiber.

 

[pOker]

i would try an air purifier(im going to get myself one soon to help with bunny hair occasional allergies). i keep my hay in a cooler place-the dust doesnt seem to bother me as much there, but when it was in the warmer room i felt it was worse..not sure why..but thats how it happened.i also keep it in a storage bin with an air tight lid.

 

[luvthempigs]

pamnock wrote:

There are plenty of other sources of fiber in a rabbit's diet. Hay is not a necessity. Greens and veggies will serve the purpose just fine. Commercial rabbit pellets also provide adequate fiber.

You don't feelhay isnecessary to help inkeeping teeth from becoming overgrown?

 

[Happi Bun]

luvthempigs wrote:

pamnock wrote:

There are plenty of other sources of fiber in a rabbit's diet. Hay is not a necessity. Greens and veggies will serve the purpose just fine. Commercial rabbit pellets also provide adequate fiber.

You don't feelhay isnecessary to help inkeeping teeth from becoming overgrown?

Amber wasn't given access to hay as a younger bun and as a direct result (according to the vet) had overgrown teeth even at her young age. When she went in for her spay the vet trimmed her teeth while she was under. We haven't had any problems related to overgrown teeth since the trimming. Boy does she love her hay! Always munching away. While pellets do have fiber, they do not provide the needed roughage to keep the digestive system moving properly as well as reducing the dangers of blockages.

 

[GorbyJobRabbits]

luvthempigs wrote:

pamnock wrote:

There are plenty of other sources of fiber in a rabbit's diet. Hay is not a necessity. Greens and veggies will serve the purpose just fine. Commercial rabbit pellets also provide adequate fiber.

You don't feel hay is necessary to help in keeping teeth from becoming overgrown? 

I agree with Pam. There are other things to replace hay with.

I do NOT feed Hay. Never have. I've raised too many rabbits to count, and I've never had problems. They've all been healthy long living animals.

and I do not see how hay would aid in their teeth anyway? We always kept wood in the cages for them to nibble on and that always kept their teeth back.


We've always fed pellets and the occasional treat.

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Sorry, didn't mean to start the pellets vs. hay debate again. :baghead

What I was wondering was whetherit would be okay to substitute more leafy green veggies for the hay and Gus would be okay.

Those of you who mentioned the dust, yes, it's mostly the dust. I can't believe how dusty my house has become since Gus moved in! I feel like I'm vacuuming and dusting CONSTANTLY!

His cage is in the bathroom downstairs (we live in a townhouse) and the hay is kept in a closet off the bathroom in the plastic bag it comes in. I was looking into moving the hay outdoors into a Rubbermaid container, but then worried that I'd end up trailing hay through the house every time I filled his hay rack.

Anyway, I'm thinking the next step will be tolook into one of thoseair filters. For those of you who use them, would it be better to put the filter in the room with Gus or in our bedrooms?

Thanks!

Rue

 

[ra7751]

Hay is a necessity in a rabbit's diet. No if, and or buts about it. There are different types of fiber. And again, anyone that remotely understands rabbits knows that a diet too low in hay will result in GI issues and overgrown teeth. The idea of grazing outside is good if you know what plants are available there (to make sure none are toxic) and that there have no pesticides have been applied. Greens and veggies do not provide the necessary "toughness" to wear down the teeth. They are good to have as part of an overall proper diet but they need that tough to chew hay to keep those teeth down. You are keeping these animals in an artificially created environment. With wild rabbits, their teeth are worn down by a combination of tough grass (which they hay in a domestic's diet represents) but the wild rabbit also ingests some amount of grit in those blades of grass which also wears the teeth. Any suggestion that hay isn't a necessity is just plain old school and very wrong. And for those that suggest that a piece of wood will keep the teeth down....would you explain how that works. I know how it doesn't work.....I would just like to hear how it does....and that explanation can't be properlyoffered.

Randy

 

[GorbyJobRabbits]

Have you tried the hay pellets. I can't think of wha tthey're called. They're in a square and are compact. That way if you still want to feed hay instead of trying other things, you still basically are.

 

[GorbyJobRabbits]

ra7751 wrote:

Hay is a necessity in a rabbit's diet.  No if, and or buts about it.  There are different types of fiber.  And again, anyone that remotely understands rabbits knows that a diet too low in hay will result in GI issues and overgrown teeth.  The idea of grazing outside is good if you know what plants are available there (to make sure none are toxic) and that there have no pesticides have been applied.  Greens and veggies do not provide the necessary "toughness" to wear down the teeth.  They are good to have as part of an overall proper diet but they need that tough to chew hay to keep those teeth down.  You are keeping these animals in an artificially created environment.  With wild rabbits, their teeth are worn down by a combination of tough grass (which they hay in a domestic's diet represents) but the wild rabbit also ingests some amount of grit in those blades of grass which also wears the teeth.  Any suggestion that hay isn't a necessity is just plain old school and very wrong.  And for those that suggest that a piece of wood will keep the teeth down....would you explain how that works.  I know how it doesn't work.....I would just like to hear how it does....and that explanation can't be properly offered.

Randy

Since I mentioned the wood block.... I never had a rabbit with over grown teeth. I've never fed hay either. We've always kept wood blocks in and they chew on it. And it keeps the teeth grinded down. I've had rabbits for around 18 years of my life. I've shown them, bred them exc..... I've watched people show my offspring....and I've always been praised on good looking rabbits. I've always kept them the same way. If there would have ever been an issue it would have been brought up... that their coat was bad, they were lacking, that their teeth were bad...

and I've never had negatives in any of those.


And by guessing Pams had her rabbits an extremely long time. She didn't state herself she didnt feed hay, but stated there were alternatives....and I'm guessing she knows her stuff.

 

[Happi Bun]

I'm quite honestly just blown away by the claims that hay is not a necessity. I'm not trying to start an argument or debate either, promise. It's just everything I have ever read or heard about Rabbit's states hay is essential, not even just small amounts but unlimited. My two easily go through two large handfuls a day (each). They are constantly munching. When Amber ate a portion of a Candle that fell against her cage I could tell she was having digestive troubles. Her stool became small and I was concerned she was going to shut down on me. I pushed Hay and Veggies soaked in water while even further limiting her pellet intake (which was suggested by a RO Mod), thankfully she came around. I believe it was because of the actions I took. Who knows what creepy ingredients were in that candle. It was a close call though.

 

[Baby Juliet]

Rabbits don't need to live indoors and hay isn't a must.

I don't think it ever gets too hot or cold in Vancouver to require pet rabbits live in the house. In my opinion, people who whine about rabbits being ignored outdoors are just too lazy to go outdoors. Keeping bunny in a well protected outdoor hutch would probably solve your allergy problem. You can always bring him in every day if you don't like playing outdoors.

Hay is just a good cheap feed but not the only one. You can do without hay if you substitute dried leaves and twigs. Some of my rabbits enjoy artichoke leaves which are probably tougher than hay. They all enjoy bamboo leaves and corn huskes which are grasses.

One thing about letting them graze (which I do) is you need a big lawn or else it will be distroyed. They love to dig and chew on roots too. I don't have grass any more but just bare soil with many many rabbit dug holes.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Interesting... I hadn't considered artichoke leaves as an alternate fibre source... good point!

Rue, I'm wondering if you would consider planting your lawn in forage grass cover for Gus, if outdoors is the route you choose to go? My dad planted a cover crop of fall rye to provide lawn cover one year after a major reno project, and the local wildlife went nuts!
There is probably a forage mix of alfalfa, timothy and clover that you could seed for Gus in the summer.

However, I think it would be a really good idea to have hay available to him, regardless of the housing situation. Baby Juliet is quite right.. it is a very good, cheap feed, that does the job for teeth. Really does eliminate the expense and time needed to procure alternate solutions.

If we can find a solution together that makes hay work for you, I think it will save you a lot of time and effort in the long run.
Are you wearing long sleeved shirts, gloves and face mask when handling the hay?

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Baby Juliet wrote:

In my opinion, people who whine about rabbits being ignored outdoors are just too lazy to go outdoors.

Or live in Greater Vancouver . . . we get about 1800 mm of rain (that over 70 inches!) every year. I'm not too lazy togo outside, I just don't enjoy being cold and wet.

I'm still looking atoptions, but if we could reduce the dust factor in the house enough, there'd be no reason to move him outside (plus, after looking atthe cost ofsheds andhutches,wouldkeep us from spending a small fortune! :shock.

Oh, and, although I do have allergies, I'm not the major sufferer. It's hubby. He's got both allergies and asthma. And the last few weeks (between one extra dusty bag of hay and Gus moulting) he's been really suffering--and he doesn't even touch the hay!

Thanks guys!

Rue

 

[Hazel-Mom]

Well, I don't want to stir things up any more, but I do have a rabbit who will be 7 this month, and doesn't eat hay.

Hazel has never liked grass hay, she refuses to eat it.
She gets lots of greens and vegetables, herbs and flowers, and a sprinkle of pellets as treats. I do dry home grown herbs for her, so she does have dry stuff, plus she loves the dried willow leaves and twigs, dried birch leaves and twigs, and dried grape vines and leaves.

She has had only one GI slowdown that needed vet treatment in all those 7 years, and that was last year when she turned 6. She recovered very quickly after being hydrated though. She has no tooth problems, never has.

I usually agree with Randy, but I must disagree that there is not enough roughage in greens. Things like kale, and fresh grass, are really good at wearing teeth down. Grass (and grass like plants) contain lots of silica, which is the component in hay that wears the teeth down.
Other foods rich in silica are cucumbers, lettuce, cabbage, asparagus, sunflower seeds, bamboo leaves and oat hay.

So if you are able to provide plenty of vegetables and fresh greens, as well as some dried vines and twigs, you can do it. You do need to have a plentifull supply year round though, and it really helps if you can grow your own grasses and herbs etc.