Food for Thought

[seniorcats]

DH and I really admire Charles Krauthammer and try and catch him whenever he is on TV. Here is his column from today.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/23/AR2008102302867_pf.html

 

[TinysMom]

I don't know how I missed that he is a columnist....I really enjoy him on tv and had never read his column before.

I'm still waiting to see what the "October Surprise" will be....I've been reading about Sarah Palin's clothes....how much they pay her hairdresser....Joe Biden's remarks about Obama being tested if elected....Murtha's comments about Pennsylvania being "racist" and then "really redneck years ago"...and now about the case in Pennsylvania where Barack Obama was ordered to produce his birth certificate and the 30 day deadline passed without it being produced. (Story is here: http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/ob...2008/10/24/143882.html?s=al&promo_code=6E2D-1 )

Oh - and Joe the Plumber....

Oh yes - and how they think bin Laden may try to affect the election with an attack beforehand...

Any other October surprises folks have heard about?

I'm still sorta waiting for the big one to pop up....

 

[seniorcats]

Here are some of Charles' columns. 'The Audacity of Vanity' is one of my favorites.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/author/charles_krauthammer/

October surprise - I expect we will get one. I've read the stories of more terrorist 'chatter' and traffic so we will have to see what Osama has up his robe.

The birth certificate/ birth place issueis huge!

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Hawaii had a problem with a fire where some records were kept. I wonder if Obama's were in that fire? A friend of mine had a heck of a time trying to get her birth certificate because of that.

Also, my understanding is that if you have one parent who is a U.S. citizen, you can be born on the moon and still be a U.S. citizen at birth.

 

[TinysMom]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

Hawaii had a problem with a fire where some records were kept. I wonder if Obama's were in that fire? A friend of mine had a heck of a time trying to get her birth certificate because of that.

Also, my understanding is that if you have one parent who is a U.S. citizen, you can be born on the moon and still be a U.S. citizen at birth.

I don't know - but according to his book - he had his birth certificate at one time (the article mentions it).

There is a website called "fight the smears" which has posted a copy of his birth certificate - it is here:

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

However, it doesn't have certain information which all birth certificates supposedly had:

Name of hospital
Weight of baby

possibly - name of doctor

Also - it lists his father as "African" but in 1961 - his father would have been listed as "Negro" or "Colored" on official documents during that time frame - which is part of why his birth certificate is considered 'questionable'.

As I said - I suspect there is still more to be part of an "October surprise". It could be bin Laden....it could be a lot of things.

I'll just be glad when its over. I rarely watch tv and usually watch stuff on the internet - but the few times I watch tv - I'm getting sick of the ads.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Yep, I agree there's not a lot they might not do for political reasons or whatever.

Oh and I looked it up and in 1961, if one parent was a citizen and had lived in the US for 10 years prior (which she had) and 5 of those years were after age 14, they could be born in a residence outside of the USA and be a citizen.

Now, I have read that Stanley never left the States with Barack senior. That when he wanted to return to Kenya, she filed for divorce.

I say I've read it because who knows at this point?

My personal feelings are that someone like ARNOLD who was Austrian and both parents were, should not have the right to be president.

I'd like to know for sure and I'd like the law to be better - it's changed over the years. If nothing else, we're getting educated huh? LOL!

Here's a link to that - http://www.brooklaw.com/citizenship...e’s Citizenship When Born Outside of the US

Now, personally I think that if they had to knock off Obama from the candidacy for this, it would have had to be done before now. If they did do it, I wonder if they would put Biden there? or slap Hillary on or something? Isn't that an interesting idea to think about? I'm curious about stuff like that! If there is a rule in place or whatever.

IF Barack wasn't born here, and if his mom, Stanley wasn't here during the time, I suppose he shouldn't be running. However, I don't think that's the case.

On a side note:

I think this election is opening the eyes of many people. Several people had no clue that things were going on around them that they really care about.

I also think children are learning. My daughter says they talk about the candidates among themselves sometimes...... unfortunately there was a day when 2 of her friends got a bit too heated in their discussion and she had to get between them!!! KIDS! Seventh Graders!

Whatever happens - I just pray that it's the best thing for our country - at least to get us back on track cause it's pretty scary right now for everyone (well, not the richies but.... )

If you guys hear anymore about that stuff, post it will ya?

 

[gentle giants]

I don't even bother worrying about the whole birth place/certificate issue, there has been so much confusion over that by now I doubt we will ever really know what's the truth. And honestly, I don't think it makes any difference, there's no way he's getting yanked out of the race. He has too many important friends.

As for the whole October surprise thing--the rumor I heard was thatBiden was going to back out as VP candidate for "health reasons" and Hillary would be put in instead. Hasn't happened yet, though, thankfully. The only thing I find scarier than Obamaleading this country is Obama AND Hillary leading us.

 

[TinysMom]

gentle giants wrote:

The only thing I find scarier than Obamaleading this country is Obama AND Hillary leading us.

Wait...you don't find it scary that we might have both a Democrat President/VP AND the Congress / House with the Democrats holding the majority?

Now to me - that is scary. Where are the checks and balances? Obama won't have to "reach across the aisle" - anything he wants will get through...for at least two years. I suspect though that the Democrats may only hold the majority for those two years once this happens. (I am not totally in favor of the same thing happening with the Republicans either - just so y'all know. I like the whole checks/balances when both parties have to work together).

I keep reading about how the race is tightening - I think I need to stop reading political stuff till after Nov. 4th! I don't know how much more of this waiting I can take...

 

[gentle giants]

TinysMom wrote:

I keep reading about how the race is tightening - I think I need to stop reading political stuff till after Nov. 4th! I don't know how much more of this waiting I can take...

I am with you on that one... I have always payed attention to presidential races of course, and voted. But I don't think I have ever gotten this nervous and worried over one before. There are just so many rumors going around, so many nasty comments made on both sides. I have heard several people say they think that if Obama loses there willl be mass rioting, etc. I have also heard the opinion that if Obama wins he will be assasinated not long after election, but I think that one is unlikely myself. I just know that whatever way the election goes, it will be a relief that this wait and the campaigning is over.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

It's so funny to me because each side seems to be very nervous about the other.

I WISH Hillary was running! Bill Clinton had our budget balanced and we were actually paying off some of the national debt! He would be right beside her as she was with him for office. I think they could help a lot.

Obama is not my first pick but I would take him over anything from the Republican party right now......... especially with Palin on the ticket.

Indiana is looking to swing Democratic this time. I'll be interested to see if it happens.

Early polls are packed here!

 

[seniorcats]

More food for thought on McCain's health care plan. i chose the best of many articles saying the same thing

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122506862956370705.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

[TinysMom]

Interesting article - my brain is too fuzzy right now though to really read it,

I've been following links and stuff about Obama being a member of the Socialist "New Party" (which is now no longer in existence if I understand right) - my head is still fuzzy from reading the various articles from newsletters and the picture of him that was in a "New Party" newsletter.

I think this article will be much more thought-provoking though when I read through it in more detail tomorrow.

Health care is one of those things that doesn't really affect Art & I since he retired with the military and we get our health care through them.....

 

[gentle giants]

I am planning on reading some of the books Obama has written, I heard from a friend yesterday that a direct quote from one of his books states that America will be a Muslim country. Like I said, that is hearsay still, but I am going to look it up asap. One of the things that gets me is the fact that every one is so angry at the Bush Admin. over the current economy crisis--all this damage was not done in the last four years, this has been coming fora long time. It is going to take a long time to fix, too, no matter who gets into office.

I got an email forwarded video I thoughtI would put up on here, just as more food for thought. It's a little bit long, but I find it interesting. http://oldbluewebdesigns.com/USSA.htm

Just as an aside, not trying to flame or start an argument here, but Bo, what is it you dislike about Palin? Just curious.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

If Obama said that, I'd sure LOVE Toknow where!I've heard a bunch of people who are paranoid of stuff have said such things..... that's ludicrous


As far as Palin:

1. She has not got enough experience. She has some but it's not a strong amount, number of people, etc. I have experience with birthing lambs but I sure don't expect to become a midwife.....

2. She's an airhead who can see Russia from her house, and thinks that (if it were even true) could give her foreign policy experience.

3. She has done some really unethical things like the trooper-gate issue, the polar bear issue, and monies spent inappropriately.

4. She talks all down home and I think it makes her sound stupid. I also think she isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

5. She's a poor representative for the first (possibly) woman in the pres/vp seat. Hillary may be a witch but she's at least got the ability to look like she has a brain! (which she really does) Palin to me sounds like an idiot!

6. I don't think that baby needs its mom to be even more busy! Children with those issues need intervention - not to be lugged around and passed around like a loaf of bread by the entire family while he sleeps...... which is all the time apparently. (I know that sounds sort of dumb but it's been really unnerving to me to see him done that way)...

7. I think a VP with a teenage pregnant daughter is NOT something we need to see in office. It seems Palin needs to work on her family - not mine!

8. Her views. I don't agree with some of her ideas and apparently, neither does McCain...... LOL!

9. My fear is to see her in the VP seat and something happen to McCain.... I cannot imagine her as our president ....... I've told my family I feel I would have to pack up and move out of the country. Again, her fake, downhome, b/s about joe six-pack (which is basically calling someone a hick) and joe the plummer makes me want to puke!

 

[gentle giants]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

If Obama said that, I'd sure LOVE Toknow where!I've heard a bunch of people who are paranoid of stuff have said such things..... that's ludicrous

That one I have to look up for myself, my Mom works in a library so I am going to ask her to see if she can get ahold of that book for me.

As far as Palin:

1. She has not got enough experience. She has some but it's not a strong amount, number of people, etc. I have experience with birthing lambs but I sure don't expect to become a midwife.....

Yes, but still more than Obama...

2. She's an airhead who can see Russia from her house, and thinks that (if it were even true) could give her foreign policy experience.

Same as above, LOL.

3. She has done some really unethical things like the trooper-gate issue, the polar bear issue, and monies spent inappropriately.

I don't know--I have heard several different views on the Troopergate thing, and had not heard about the money issue.

4. She talks all down home and I think it makes her sound stupid. I also think she isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

I think on that one she is just trying to hard too sound like "one of us" and it is coming out sounding overdone.

5. She's a poor representative for the first (possibly) woman in the pres/vp seat. Hillary may be a witch but she's at least got the ability to look like she has a brain! (which she really does) Palin to me sounds like an idiot!

I have a lot of the same issues with Hillary as I do with Obama. She is also very anti-gun, just like he is. And...Yes, she has a brain, but the way her brain works is a bigger issue, I think.

6. I don't think that baby needs its mom to be even more busy! Children with those issues need intervention - not to be lugged around and passed around like a loaf of bread by the entire family while he sleeps.

Well, at least the VP would have access to the best medical facilities, etc. I admit the whole busy mom thing kinda gets me too, though.

7. I think a VP with a teenage pregnant daughter is NOT something we need to see in office. It seems Palin needs to work on her family - not mine!

8. Her views. I don't agree with some of her ideas and apparently, neither does McCain...... LOL!

9. My fear is to see her in the VP seat and something happen to McCain.... I cannot imagine her as our president ....... I've told my family I feel I would have to pack up and move out of the country. Again, her fake, downhome, b/s about joe six-pack (which is basically calling someone a hick) and joe the plummer makes me want to puke!

I agree that I am tired of the Joe the Plumber thing too, and there are a couple of things that she is for that I really don't totally agree with, but what are the odds that any candidate from any party will ever be "perfect" in that they think exactly the same on every issue as I do?

 

[LadyBug]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

As far as Palin:

1. She has not got enough experience. She has some but it's not a strong amount, number of people, etc. I have experience with birthing lambs but I sure don't expect to become a midwife..... Obama doesn't have that much experience either. at least she's been a governor.....

6. I don't think that baby needs its mom to be even more busy! Children with those issues need intervention - not to be lugged around and passed around like a loaf of bread by the entire family while he sleeps...... which is all the time apparently. (I know that sounds sort of dumb but it's been really unnerving to me to see him done that way)... totally agree with you here. she needs to take care of that baby, not the whole country

7. I think a VP with a teenage pregnant daughter is NOT something we need to see in office. It seems Palin needs to work on her family - not mine!
the current VP's daughter is gay......childrens choices are childrens choices, not their parents, just like parents choices are parents choices, not their childs. parents can do their best and their kids will still make their own choices and their parents might not always like it. you kids have done things you don't like or agree with before, i'm assuming.

TinysMom wrote:

......and now about the case in Pennsylvania where Barack Obama was ordered to produce his birth certificate and the 30 day deadline passed without it being produced. (Story is here: http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html?s=al&promo_code=6E2D-1 )

him not fessing up his BC is very suspicious, if you ask me. if he wasn't born in the US he has no business running it. i think arnold swarchenegger would make a great prez, but he wasn't born here, and he's playing by the rules. if Obama wasn't born here, even this late in the race, he should be forced to pull out. rules are rules, there should be no exceptions! and the guy's middle name is 'Hussein' for pete sake! that kinda freaks me out.......

:soapbox

ok, i'm done......:whistling

 

[TinysMom]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

If Obama said that, I'd sure LOVE Toknow where!I've heard a bunch of people who are paranoid of stuff have said such things..... that's ludicrous


As far as Palin:

1. She has not got enough experience. She has some but it's not a strong amount, number of people, etc. I have experience with birthing lambs but I sure don't expect to become a midwife.....
Didn't Bill Clinton have about the same amount of experience? If you look at it - she has more EXECUTIVE experience than Biden, Obama and McCain combined!
2. She's an airhead who can see Russia from her house, and thinks that (if it were even true) could give her foreign policy experience.
No comment - I think that was a horrid interview - but then again - the media hasn't given her the passes its given Joe Biden (and boy has he had some doozies)
3. She has done some really unethical things like the trooper-gate issue, the polar bear issue, and monies spent inappropriately.
You do realize that part of the reason the former governor didn't have those expenses is cause he insisted Alaska have that plane (which they didn't need) - right? So part of her expenses come from the fact she sold the plane for millions (which she put back into Alaska's coffers) but wound up having to take commercial flights (which still were cheaper).

I do have some issues with troopergate (not sure about the polar bear one).
4. She talks all down home and I think it makes her sound stupid. I also think she isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
Honestly? I think she's sharper than Biden. Some of his gaffes this year.... Yeah - I admit she isn't the brightest - and maybe she wasn't the best choice (gasp - Peg is admitting she's not as big a fan of her as she was)

5. She's a poor representative for the first (possibly) woman in the pres/vp seat. Hillary may be a witch but she's at least got the ability to look like she has a brain! (which she really does) Palin to me sounds like an idiot!
Since I couldn't stand Hillary politically - I'll pass on this one.
6. I don't think that baby needs its mom to be even more busy! Children with those issues need intervention - not to be lugged around and passed around like a loaf of bread by the entire family while he sleeps...... which is all the time apparently. (I know that sounds sort of dumb but it's been really unnerving to me to see him done that way)...
What about if Biden had a baby....? Or what if he had a baby - and his wife died two weeks before the election - would you then not vote for him because he had children to take care of?

7. I think a VP with a teenage pregnant daughter is NOT something we need to see in office. It seems Palin needs to work on her family - not mine!
Wow...this one is um...interesting. What about Gore's son (didn't he use drugs or something? I was thinking he was in trouble with the law -but I could be wrong).

There are worse things than having a pregnant daughter - and the pregnancy only lasts 9 months.

Once again - I reverse it...what if Biden's teenage daughter was pregnant - would you then not vote for him?
8. Her views. I don't agree with some of her ideas and apparently, neither does McCain...... LOL!
I'm glad he didn't seek someone who was a "yes man" and would be willing to argue with him about things.

Sure sounds to me (from some of the gaffes and non-gaffes) that Biden and Obama don't always see eye to eye.

9. My fear is to see her in the VP seat and something happen to McCain.... I cannot imagine her as our president ....... I've told my family I feel I would have to pack up and move out of the country. Again, her fake, downhome, b/s about joe six-pack (which is basically calling someone a hick) and joe the plummer makes me want to puke!

But let's say that Obama wins the election and four years from now McCain is still with us. During that four years - we watch a Democrat President and a Democrat majority in the House and Senate push through very liberal agendas and spend lots of money....billions and billions of dollars. To me - that is a far more realistic scenario.

I read somewhere today that the only people who have a lower approval rating than the President - are the Congress and House (which are majorly Democrats).....

Yet people want to put them back in with a Democrat President.

Now - I never cared for President Clinton - but we had a surplus.....so I have to give him that for credit.

But Obama isn't the same type of Democrat that President Clinton was. He's been a member (it has been documented no matter what he says) of the "New Party" which was a Socialist organization. I have links to articles and pictures....

To me - this says he's going to "spread the wealth" around - and based upon his past voting record - I would say he's going to raise taxes too.

I guess what I'm trying to say (and this is personal opinion only - I understand we all have different views)....is that I'd rather risk the fact that Palin *might* somehow become President (which I doubt given the fact that John McCain's mom is in her 90's and he seems very healthy) - then risk a Socialist (uh...I meant Democrat) President and a Democrat majority in the House /Senate.

Anyway - you had good points Bo - I am sure you know I'm not picking on you...and I do understand where you're coming from.

I do think its going to be an interesting election...I really do.

 

[TinysMom]

I HAVE to share this - Art just sent it to me - and it is not only true -but funny...sorta.

[line]
Subject: Barstool Economics

Our Tax System Explained: Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for
all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes,
it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy
with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.
'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce
the cost of your daily beer by $20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just
$80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our
taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for
free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How
could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair
share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they
subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth
man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each
man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the
amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100%
savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men
began to compare their savings.
'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He
pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'
'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a
dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I got' 'That's
true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got
only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'
'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't
get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks so the
nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay
the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough
money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college
professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest
taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much,
attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In
fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is
somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia [/code]

 

[naturestee]

All I have to say is- the thought of Palin as a VP, representing our country, frightens me more than anything else. That was the final straw for me as I used to really like McCain. Between his policy changes and campaign style (he's NOT the man he was in 2000) and his choice of Palin as his VP my vote is going to Obama.

Keep in mind that I am a fairly liberal independant. But social policies are what really get me. Average right-to-life politicians I can deal with although I'm for keeping their laws off my body. But Palin is against abortions even for rape victims! Frankly I find that to be cruel and also encouraging to the rapist. Congrats, you get a baby! Even if he isn't allowed anything to do with the kid the choice should be 100% up to the mother. Edit- did anyonesee the interview (I think it wasCBS, bothMcCain and Palin at the same time) where Palin avoided answering whether she thought abortion clinic bombers were terrorists? After a bunch of waffling McCainhad to jump in andanswer the question (yes, duh). Does she think they're in the right just because she supports their basic belief? Sick.

McCain's energy policy is short sighted and Palin's even more so. Our oil reserves are tiny compared to what the US uses and it will take 10+ years for new oil wells to actually start producing in quantity. Oh and BTW this was covered in my college geology classes by a pro-oil professor. Also foreign policy- it is way past time we as a country start looking more towards diplomacy as a first response, not war. When Obama said he'd be willing to meet leaders from countries like Iran and Cuba- that is exactly what is needed! Isolationism does nobody any good, and why are we taking away relations from countries as a punishment for them? It's backwards.

Also what is with the ridiculous anti-intellectual thing in this country? How dare someone be smart and well-read. I forget where I read this but I totally agree with the thought. When you look at who to choose for a president, don't choose the person you'd like to have a beer with or the person that reminds you of yourself. Presidents aren't supposed to be the "everyman," they should be the best people available and capable of handling emergencies and difficult concepts. It just makes me think of how I feel like Palin is talking to a bunch of elementary school kids in her speaches. Ugh.

Oh, and about Obama's birth certificate: My certificate doesn't have all the "expected" info on it either. I think they're more universal now but at Obama's time (and mine, born in '81) different states had different policies and requirements. Also, in order to challenge someone's citizenship it is up to the challenger to provide proof of the accusations before anything of the accused citizen is required.

Do you really think he'd get into the Senate, and then a majorpresidential candidate, without someone checking on the basics?

Ok, I'm done for now!

 

[naturestee]

Ok, not done lol!

Anyone who thinks Obama's plans may be socialist need to read about what socialism actually is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

All Obama is doing is working with the progressive tax system. What's farmore socialist is the $700 billion Bush-backed bailout plan (buying into banks!?!) and how Palin charged money to the Alaska oil companies and gave that money in checks to Alaska residents. Alaska's actually the most socialist-appearing state in the US, believe it or not. And stop with the knee-jerk McCarthyism please.