excess cecals

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werecatrising

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As some of you may have read, I got a flemish buck last weekend. He came with a starter supply of pellets. I really don't agree with the breeders feeding recommendations. She says never to feed fresh greens. (I hadn't planned on it until he was older.)She says to feed hay at least once a week. :what The feed she uses is a brand I haven't heard of mixed with Animax, Safflower, Black Oil Sunflower seed, corn, oyster shell, can molasses and flax seed and oats.

I was giving the feed he was sent with and hay for the first couple of day. However, he was barely eating. He was picking out the extras and eating hay, but no pellets. I slowly started mixing tiny bits of my pellets in. He picks those out and leaves the rest. He seems healthy and happy, but I have noticed excess cecals the past 2 days. I amkind of worried.He is still so young. (5 weeks) I emailed the breeder- explained the whole story and asked for advice. She just said that excess cecal come from a lack of minerals and vitamins. Does anyone have any pointers on what I should do now?
 
Ideally your little bunny should still be with his mom. He shouldn't have been separated until he was at least 8 weeks old. In the milk from his mom hewould be getting enzymes that will slowly help his gut develop microbes that will help himtolerate food and digest it.

I am not going to tell you what to feed him now butI will get a member of the forum who is more knowledgeable about this. The diet that the breeder gave you is high in carbohydrates which is too much for his little body to deal with at this young age. He should still be nursing

Don't change anything drastically as this would only make the problem worse.

Could you tell me a little about the circumstances re. you getting him.?
 
That rabbit is not fully weaned yet and in many states, it would be illegal to offer him for sale. His gut is not fully established yet. Even here in this backwardsstate it is illegal to offer rabbits before eightweeks old. As a rabbit weans, the milk changes pH which changes the pH in the gut of the baby which makes a favorable climate for the bacteria that is critical for digestion to grow and reproduce. That is why many wildlife rehabbers refuse to take cottontails....they have a very violent weaning and many are lost. They are much more delicate than domestics.

The absolute best thing for this rabbit is to be returned to his mother for several more weeks. I have been involved in rabbits for decades and my opinion of the diet this rabbit is on.....it's horrible. A weaning rabbit should be on free choice high quality pellets (the stuff you are describing sounds like junk food) and unlimited hay....and I feed both alfalfa (which has nutrients needed for the fast growth of rabbits) and grass hays to help the gut. I also use a probiotic to help stabilize the climate of the GI.

The diet of a healthy adult diet should be primarily grass hay such as timothy, orchard grass, brome, oat, etc. Pellets contain far too much protein and should be offered in limited amounts. We have rabbits that eat only high quality hay. Even our Flemish, and both are between 25-30 pounds, get less than a quarter cup pellets per day. The hay is high fiber and is necessary for the health of the GI. Hay is also the primary way to keep those ever growing teeth worn down since it's so chewy.

The use of greens in baby rabbits is one of those misunderstood issues. If you fully understand the dynamics of the digestive system of a rabbit....they can eat greens that young. I rescue and rehab wild rabbits.....and while wild rabbits and domestics are technically different species, their guts are the same. I start feeding my cottontails greens as soon as their eyes open. The key is knowing that gut and knowing how to help it develop and mature.

But to answer your question directly, in my non-professional opinion, your rabbit's GI issues are probably a combination of being taken from his mother too soon, a horrible diet (due to bad advice)and probablystress related not only from being taken from his mother but being in a totally new environment.

Randy
 
I'm sure that you didn't know that he was too young to leave his mom so no one is blaming you but is there any way the person that you bought him from would let him go back with his mom for another month or so. ?
 
Thanks for your help,guys He is actually 6 weeks old, but I got him at 5. This is the first time I have ever bought anything from a breeder and not what I expected.

I have several adult rabbits. They are fed salad in the am, a small amount of oxbow pellets in the evening, and eat tons of hay .

I have always rescued my animals.I really wanted a flemish, though. I live near a well known breeder, so decided to go to her. I read through her website first and was disappointed by some of the advice given. Aside from the stuff I already mentioned it says to give weaning babies pieces of bread with milk on it. Maybe I should have stayed away, but I love my boy and don't regret my decision.

I have ben e bac. Should I give him some of that?
 
At least by tomorrow we should have some answers for you . I have contacted two very excellent and knowledgeablemods Who are also very knowledgeable re. very young bunnieson the forum ; they should be able to devise a diet for him .

in the meantime i would let him have all the hay he wants.

what you don't want to do is throw is little GI tract more off balance than it already is. Changing anything drastically will not be helpful.
 
Thanks so much! I feel kind of stupid. I didn't even realize how old he was until I got home. I know rabbits are supposed to be weaned at 8 weeks. I thought flemish were weaned even later. I was really uncomfortable there. I am claustrophobic,severely, and have phobias of being confined. I can't handle seeing animals cooped up. Between walking down the aisles of cages and seeing all the animals in them I was starting to have an anxiety attack. I pretty much gave her the money and ran. I didn't look at the receipt until later.That had his birthdate on it.
 
Well - I have a few more questions for you - I'm not exactly what I'd call the most knowledgable breeder on the forum by any means....but here goes.

  • Is your rabbit exhibiting any other signs of distress of any sort? Is he peeing and pooping ok? How is he acting - is he lethargic or anything?
I've had rabbits get excess cecals from having their feed changed (which is what you are sort of doing with adding your pellets - not that I disagree with you for doing that).

Let me give you an example - Miss Bea LOVES oatmeal and she gets a tiny bit of it almost every day. One day the container was left on the bed...and she got into it. I'm not sure how much she ate - but it was a lot - and she gave lots of excess cecals for the next day or two. (She also wasn't quite as eager to eat her oats too).

So how are his poops? Are they normal size and shape? Normal color?

I have a feeling you are not going to want to take him back - that you're getting attached to him....am I right? Or are you willing to return him? I think this is the first decision you'll have to make.

Ideally - the best choice is to return him to his mama. I don't know that the breeder will do that if you do take him back. (By the way - I know a large number of breeders who wean the babies and four and five weeks - doesn't make it right - but it does happen).

So if you're going to keep him - here are my suggestions...

  • Keep mixing your feed in with his - slightly larger percentages every day. I honestly suspect that her "supplements" are causing the excess cecals.
  • Give him lots and lots of hay to munch on.
  • Keep a close eye on him - I'd keep some benebac and pedialyte handy - just in case he starts having digestive issues or you need to hydrated him. (There is also a recipe for homemade pedialyte I'm sure we can find for you).
I would not give him greens for at least another month or two - largely because I suspect that his mama probably didn't have greens and why risk bothering his system and make it adjust to greens if you don't have to this young?

I do give cheerios (in limited amounts - like maybe 2-3 per day) to my babies. That is their "treat". Is it the healthiest? Nope. But it teaches them to look forward to me and to think of me with positive thoughts. More than that - and they'd have excess cecals too - I had one litter drag the cheerio container in their cage partly....now that was excess cecals galore.

Anyway - I guess what I'm getting at is that you can get all up in arms and go "this baby has to go back to mama" - or you can try to keep it there and do the best you can for it - and not be stressed yourself. I honestly don't think that even if you return the baby - the breeder is going to return it to mama.

As I said above, I know of many many breeders who sell babies as young as five weeks and the babies do fine. I don't believe in the practice....but he will probably be fine if you get him on good food and give him lots of hay and give him time for his GI tract to straighten itself out.

I think Amy (Undergunfire) got Marlin when he was pretty young....and look at him now!

Good luck with your baby. I'd be more worried if you were talking about diaherrea or the baby not eating or drinking at all.


 
He is acting fine. He jumps upon the cage every time I walk by. He is eating the hay,drinking, pooping, etc.

I won't bring him back. I love him dearly. I know he would just be sold again anyway. I have ben e bac. I'll get some pedialyte tomorrow.

Thank you so much for all of your help.
 
Ludo is doing good. There is still an abundance of cecals, though. He is eating his pellets a little better. I just had him outside on the porch with me for awhile. He was grooming me and making that contented little tooth grinding noise. I love the little guy so much, I just want him to do well.
 
It's a shame that your littel guy was taken away from his mother so soon! (We wean our Flemish at 10 weeks.)

I agree with the advice of weaning him off the pellets the breeder gave you and over to a more ballanced pellet. I would mix in a few tablespoons of rolled oats (plain cooking Quaker oats!). The oats are easy on the digestive tract. I'd be careful about introducing greens and do it very slowly and in very small amounts to start out. Unlimited hay is paramount to good digestion. And make sure he's drinking plenty of water.

One other suggestion, if the excess cecals are dark colored or smell bad, I'd have the bunny checked for coccidiosis. The stress of being weaned so early and brought into a ne environment could have caused a bloom in his gut. The vet can do a float with fresh droppings, you don't even have to bring the bunny in.

How is he today?


 
:foreheadsmack:I can't believe doing a fecal slipped my mind! I had intended too. I do on all new animals. (I'm a vet tech, so I just do it at work at no cost) I just got so distracted worrying about everything else.

He is doing good. I was off Sunday and Monday. He went crazy when I got home! Must have missed me.
 
I am happy to say Ludo is doing well! I brought him to work Wednesday. Turns out it is coccidiosis. Treatment is easy since he loves the albon. I was afraid he's be stressed if he had to stay at the hospital with me all day, but he seemed to love it. He acted like everyone was there for a party thrown in his honor.
 
Yeah! Good for you! Glad to hear he's doing well! :biggrin2:
 
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