Enlarged Heart?

[MiliMilo]

Hello, so i am here again to post about my rabbit condition. I took her to the vet since i've seen her coughing sometimes when she sleeps. I attached a video of her coughing and her xray. Is this abdomen xray normal? And what kind of medication i could give her if she is indeed have enlarged heart. My vet said that she needed to do further tests before she could prescribe medication. She also said that her heartbeat is normal and her breathing sounds normal too.

My rabbit named Milo and she's 7 years old this 13th January. If anyone had experience with this i'd like some insight. And what's her life expectancy to survive at this point? She didn't have nostril flaring, rapid breathing or mouth breathing at this point. She had normal appetite but less drinking because her right eye is now blind and her water bottle is on her right side.

I wanted to upload her "coughing" video but i can't seem to upload videos here. It says "This file didn't have video extension"

 

[MiliMilo]

I just realized that her abdominal xray from the above looked a little crooked, as you can see in her backbone position. I can't edit my own post idk, i need to take her again to my vet as this xray is unreliable to tell her heart position. It leaned too much on her left side.

 

[JBun]

There are some medications listed in these articles on heart failure in rabbits. Life expectancy would depend on how severe it is and if medication proves helpful. There are pictures of xrays in the second link that you can try comparing to. I can't really tell by looking at them.

(LINKS CONTAIN GRAPHIC MEDICAL RELATED PHOTOS)
Medirabbit: congestive heart failure
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Cardiology/Failure/Cong_heart_en.pdf
http://www.exoticpetvet.com/heart-disease-in-rabbits.html
Heart failure in rabbits

To upload videos you need to upload it to somewhere like youtube, then link the video here.

 

[MiliMilo]

So, i have to redo the thoracic xray because the ones from before is actually taken full body. This is the current one. Hope anyone got any idea about her condition. Is this normal?

 

[MiliMilo]

So, i have to redo the thoracic xray because the ones from before is actually taken full body. This is the current one. Hope anyone got any idea about her condition. Is this normal?View attachment 58852View attachment 58853

Hoped anybody could notice something from the xrays that i've included. I don't think my vet is rabbit savvy at all. I need to act on my own for now. So please if anybody could help me identify the heart visually. Is it normal or enlarged at some point?

 

[mills&snoops]

Hey there, I'm new and joined this forum, because I'm in a similar boat to you. My rabbit has been having choking/ coughing/ choking episodes. She almost chokes on fluid coming out of her mouth and nose. We've done two x-rays too and honestly they look similar to my buns. So far we've established she has fluid on the lungs and borderline enlarged heart, but not enough to say for sure it's heart failure. We had ultrasound that wasn't conclusive and this week we have a CT, so I can let you know the outcome. I'd love to know more about your bunny Milo. My x-rays aren't the best, because they were trying to keep my bill down and we were having other tests, but I'll upload them Apparently you can see fluid on this - it's where the heart looks kind of fuzzy, it should be clearly defined.

The first x-ray was taken a couple of weeks ago, the second was taken one was taken a year and a half a go where you can see her heart is less fuzzy (no fluid). Millie is 9 in march so heart problems wouldn't be a surprise and I'm already dealing with my other bunny who has an enlarged heart - BTW, my other bunny was diagnosed aged 2 and is now 5, doing great on medication

 

[mills&snoops]

I can't seem to upload the videos I have - but here are the links to Millie choking:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fzqubSVtcs_1zyAkNwtZjUKNaXLepnWC/view?usp=sharinghttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1WYfWPpOu0yzCqnTI6Li91CJLAJi-r2Vz/view?usp=sharing

 

[mills&snoops]

I can't say for certain, but to me it looks like there maybe fluid around your buns lungs and based on symptoms, it may be worth trialling a diuretic - I'm in the UK so we use furosemide liquid. This is what we've done with my bun for the last few weeks and it has stopped the choking episodes (which weren't very often anyway) so far. Is there the option to send it to a rabbit savvy vet or get to one yourself? The average vet probably wouldn't spot it or understand the treatment I don't think

 

[MiliMilo]

Hey there, I'm new and joined this forum, because I'm in a similar boat to you. My rabbit has been having choking/ coughing/ choking episodes. She almost chokes on fluid coming out of her mouth and nose. We've done two x-rays too and honestly they look similar to my buns. So far we've established she has fluid on the lungs and borderline enlarged heart, but not enough to say for sure it's heart failure. We had ultrasound that wasn't conclusive and this week we have a CT, so I can let you know the outcome. I'd love to know more about your bunny Milo. My x-rays aren't the best, because they were trying to keep my bill down and we were having other tests, but I'll upload them Apparently you can see fluid on this - it's where the heart looks kind of fuzzy, it should be clearly defined.

The first x-ray was taken a couple of weeks ago, the second was taken one was taken a year and a half a go where you can see her heart is less fuzzy (no fluid). Millie is 9 in march so heart problems wouldn't be a surprise and I'm already dealing with my other bunny who has an enlarged heart - BTW, my other bunny was diagnosed aged 2 and is now 5, doing great on medication

Hello! Thank you for your response. I desperately need any help i could get because in my country and especially in my area there's no rabbit savvy vet in here I am currently enrolled in college so i can't afford to get CT for her as it would cost me a lot of money

She had episodic noisy breathing almost sound like snoring(?) when she's sleeping, cleaning or sometimes eating. That's when the strange noise occured the most from my own observation. She also really rarely had dry sneezing, like one sneeze not a fit. This sneezing occured only when she's relaxing. As for now, she's breathing normally (no mouth breathing). Her breathing is always fast, i don't know why but she's always like that ever since she was little. She didn't gag/choke like yours did.

Since you had your shared experiences of having cardiac bun, what kind of symptom did your cardiac bun had? How do you identify them? What kind of medication that she take? My vet said that her heart is kinda enlarged but the enlargement is still "normal" for her age. I didn't know what she means by that Is it enlarged or normal? I need to know for sure. And i asked about Fortekor (dogs or cats renal/heart medicine that many owners here used them to treat enlarged heart), and my vet said she didn't have it here. So i guess i need to take the matter on my own hands.

I have Pasteurella bun before and the same as Milo, i had to take some measurements alone because she didn't have enough knowledge about some "rarer" condition that rabbit might have. In my country, Indonesia, rabbit is kinda rare to have as a pet. Most people have cats and dogs as a house pet. So my current vet have fewer experience handled rabbit rather than dogs or cats.

I'm sorry i rarely see my own thread because not a lot of people replied to my thread other than the mods here. But i desperately need any help i could get from experienced owner in here because yeah, exotic vet here is not rabbit savvy. Please anyone reach me if someone had the same experience and how do they handled such situation I'm trying my best here to provide her with proper care by doing independent research on forums and reading some journals

 

[mills&snoops]

Hi there,
I'm having similar problems and understand how you feel. Luckily, my bunny is insured (I'm in the UK) so we've been able to do various scans, but they haven't shown anything other than fluid on her lungs. This week though she got far worse after we increased her diuretics so I've since stopped them and we haven't had anymore episodes.

My other bunny who has been diagnosed with an enlarged heart, has been on medication for years and we only x-rayed him and my vet and I worked out a plan to trial medication. Which worked wonders for him and unfortunately hasn't for my girl. She has been described as incredibly rare though and has multiple vets stumped

My cardiac bun was actually only one when I noticed his symptoms. They were *very* subtle in the beginning that the vet didn't believe anything was wrong until we x-rayed. He was very lethargic, I could tell it wans't normal because my bun who is 4 years older was far more active. He would sit upright rocking and staring into space. He also would make snoring, raspy noises when he was resting (not asleep) and when he was grooming or eating his cecals. The vet has heard the noise and said it's coming from his larynx, but I think it's all connected to how large his heart is. Also, he needed antibiotics for something else and he suddenly went very thin and my vet could 'hear' his heart was enlarged -whatever that meant.

They can have 'thickened heart muscle' which is normal for their age, but it also could be 'borderline enlarged', which is what my other bunny apparently is - though she's almost 9 and it's considered normal. Snoopy's heart was actually touching both sides of his rib cage

Unfortunately, there is no definitive way of saying whether it's enlarged and what the treatment might be without the specialist scans, but they were out of my reach even here in the UK too. Heart specialists are extremely hard to come by, so we had to basically guess with Snoopy based on the x-ray. Luckily for us, we guessed right. My vet said trialling fortekor was safe and we started on a very low dose - it has a huge dose range so you can increase it later. I had this tablet that I cut into 10 tiny pieces once a day. He is also on pimobendan, half a tablet (for dogs) twice a day. I think that has made the biggest difference for him and dogs are living for 'years' my vet said on this, so we think that's why Snoopy has lasted so long. We weren't sure if he had fluid on the lungs. When it was v hot I would occasionally hear noises. My vet gave us furosemide (a diuretic) for any time he appeared laboured, but he really never did so I stopped using it. If your bunny has laboured breathing then it might be worth trying a diuretic twice a day. Furosemide is supposed to be the best one. I was told fortekor, pimobendan and furosemide were the key 3 drugs for heart failure. We did have no choice with Snoopy but to trial medication, we couldn't get an exact diagnosis.

So even in the UK we are still guessing a lot with bunnies. I will help if I can, I can tell you what helped Snoopy and that he's on the meds above. Fortekor is my vets preference, but we initially started him on pimebendan and furesomide. So I would say any of those would be a good starting point. If you hear any crackly breathing or your bun looks laboured (rapid breathing, holding their nose in the air etc) then I'd definitely try a diuretic too. I feel really frustrated in the UK by the lack of resources for bunnies so I can't imagine how you must feel. It's heartbreaking isn't it? x

 

[MiliMilo]

Hi there,
I'm having similar problems and understand how you feel. Luckily, my bunny is insured (I'm in the UK) so we've been able to do various scans, but they haven't shown anything other than fluid on her lungs. This week though she got far worse after we increased her diuretics so I've since stopped them and we haven't had anymore episodes.

My other bunny who has been diagnosed with an enlarged heart, has been on medication for years and we only x-rayed him and my vet and I worked out a plan to trial medication. Which worked wonders for him and unfortunately hasn't for my girl. She has been described as incredibly rare though and has multiple vets stumped

My cardiac bun was actually only one when I noticed his symptoms. They were *very* subtle in the beginning that the vet didn't believe anything was wrong until we x-rayed. He was very lethargic, I could tell it wans't normal because my bun who is 4 years older was far more active. He would sit upright rocking and staring into space. He also would make snoring, raspy noises when he was resting (not asleep) and when he was grooming or eating his cecals. The vet has heard the noise and said it's coming from his larynx, but I think it's all connected to how large his heart is. Also, he needed antibiotics for something else and he suddenly went very thin and my vet could 'hear' his heart was enlarged -whatever that meant.

They can have 'thickened heart muscle' which is normal for their age, but it also could be 'borderline enlarged', which is what my other bunny apparently is - though she's almost 9 and it's considered normal. Snoopy's heart was actually touching both sides of his rib cage

Unfortunately, there is no definitive way of saying whether it's enlarged and what the treatment might be without the specialist scans, but they were out of my reach even here in the UK too. Heart specialists are extremely hard to come by, so we had to basically guess with Snoopy based on the x-ray. Luckily for us, we guessed right. My vet said trialling fortekor was safe and we started on a very low dose - it has a huge dose range so you can increase it later. I had this tablet that I cut into 10 tiny pieces once a day. He is also on pimobendan, half a tablet (for dogs) twice a day. I think that has made the biggest difference for him and dogs are living for 'years' my vet said on this, so we think that's why Snoopy has lasted so long. We weren't sure if he had fluid on the lungs. When it was v hot I would occasionally hear noises. My vet gave us furosemide (a diuretic) for any time he appeared laboured, but he really never did so I stopped using it. If your bunny has laboured breathing then it might be worth trying a diuretic twice a day. Furosemide is supposed to be the best one. I was told fortekor, pimobendan and furosemide were the key 3 drugs for heart failure. We did have no choice with Snoopy but to trial medication, we couldn't get an exact diagnosis.

So even in the UK we are still guessing a lot with bunnies. I will help if I can, I can tell you what helped Snoopy and that he's on the meds above. Fortekor is my vets preference, but we initially started him on pimebendan and furesomide. So I would say any of those would be a good starting point. If you hear any crackly breathing or your bun looks laboured (rapid breathing, holding their nose in the air etc) then I'd definitely try a diuretic too. I feel really frustrated in the UK by the lack of resources for bunnies so I can't imagine how you must feel. It's heartbreaking isn't it? x

Oh my god, your snoopy sounds exactly like mine. Milo have snoring raspy noises when she's resting, eating cecals and cleaning herself too. She also sitting upright and staring into space. I assumed she is lethargic because of her age. Sadly my vet didn't hear the noises, she said that her breathing sound almost normal when she's checking her. I guess i need to look into Pimobendin and Fortekor for her too.

How does your snoopy weighs? And what about the dosage of fortekor and pimobendin based on bunnies weight? My bunny weigh for about 3.4 - 3.5kg now. She used to be fatter than this but she lost some weight when she had respiratory problems last year. And how do you know that the meds improve her condition? Any visible signs? And how long it'll take until you see these improvements take it's toll?

How is Millie and Snoopy doing right now? Did both of them doing alright on their own right now? How did you manage with two cardiac buns? I imagined the stress you had to endure. I had problems sleeping and leaving mine alone because i always imagine the worst possible scenario happened to her when i'm not around.

We didn't have any insurance for pets in my country so the vet bills are mounting up like crazy in here. Especially with rarer condition like this. My vet said it's rare for her to have cardiac bun as a patient because normally bunny parent here didn't have enough knowledge for their buns to survived longer than 2 years prior. So you can imagine how clueless she is about Milo's condition. I had to seek second opinion from forums and journals. I'm stressing out because i need to act on my own without the help of decent vets to guide me on things us bunny parent didn't have deeper understandment about such as meds dosage according to her condition, etc etc. I'm afraid to gave her meds she actually didn't need and made her feel worse. But i know that if i didn't do anything, her condition is going down hill on their own. I need to act blindly on my own without knowing the consequences with her best interest in mind.

I feel mentally drained, she is the longest lived bun i ever had. I had her since i was in highschool and she accompanied me on several important occassion in my life right now. I'm growing attached to her as she lived with me in my own bedroom. I can't lose her right now

 

[MiliMilo]

Oh my god, your snoopy sounds exactly like mine. Milo have snoring raspy noises when she's resting, eating cecals and cleaning herself too. She also sitting upright and staring into space. I assumed she is lethargic because of her age. Sadly my vet didn't hear the noises, she said that her breathing sound almost normal when she's checking her. I guess i need to look into Pimobendin and Fortekor for her too.

How does your snoopy weighs? And what about the dosage of fortekor and pimobendin based on bunnies weight? My bunny weigh for about 3.4 - 3.5kg now. She used to be fatter than this but she lost some weight when she had respiratory problems last year. And how do you know that the meds improve her condition? Any visible signs? And how long it'll take until you see these improvements take it's toll?

How is Millie and Snoopy doing right now? Did both of them doing alright on their own right now? How did you manage with two cardiac buns? I imagined the stress you had to endure. I had problems sleeping and leaving mine alone because i always imagine the worst possible scenario happened to her when i'm not around.

We didn't have any insurance for pets in my country so the vet bills are mounting up like crazy in here. Especially with rarer condition like this. My vet said it's rare for her to have cardiac bun as a patient because normally bunny parent here didn't have enough knowledge for their buns to survived longer than 2 years prior. So you can imagine how clueless she is about Milo's condition. I had to seek second opinion from forums and journals. I'm stressing out because i need to act on my own without the help of decent vets to guide me on things us bunny parent didn't have deeper understandment about such as meds dosage according to her condition, etc etc. I'm afraid to gave her meds she actually didn't need and made her feel worse. But i know that if i didn't do anything, her condition is going down hill on their own. I need to act blindly on my own without knowing the consequences with her best interest in mind.

I feel mentally drained, she is the longest lived bun i ever had. I had her since i was in highschool and she accompanied me on several important occassion in my life right now. I'm growing attached to her as she lived with me in my own bedroom. I can't lose her right now

A bit of correction, she's not sitting in "upright" position and shaking. She's sitting still and stare blankly into space. About the rocky movement, apparently i had read somewhere that it's quite often occured in elderly bun. As long as she's not having difficulty breathing normally. Apart from the "raspy snoring" which she always did ever since she had respiratory problems last year, she had great appetite despite her condition.

 

[mills&snoops]

Snoopy is on half a 1.25mg Vetmedin tablet (pimobendan) twice a day and he weighs just over 2kg. I think it'd be a similar dose for most rabbits that sort of size. He's on one fifth of a 2.5mg tablet of fortekor once a day (I have to cut it into 5 pieces, but actually we started him on one tenth so that would be the starting dose). His symptoms were v, v vague, barely there at all, he was mostly just staring into space a lot whilst sitting upright but nothing really of note. He would chatter a bit too in pain but he does have another condition that causes pain so it's hard sometimes to tell what's what with him. How old is your bun and what breed is she? If she's a lop or a short faced breed it could be normal for their age to make noises but it's really alarming when you hear them!

I noticed an improvement within a couple of weeks. We started Snoopy on vetmedin and frusol (the diuretic) to begin with and he became a lot more active, binkying etc. That was really the first sign, he just became less lethargic. He still makes his funny noises, mostly when he's moulting and his gut is struggling I think (I think when he's a bit bloaty it squashes his lungs even further). He's never had problems with appetite either, always eaten and never really shown much of anything except lethargy and looking very vacant. At first we thought he was having absence seizures but now we're sure it was his heart all along. It's very hard without imaging to know for sure.

Like I said with my other bunny, I suspected her heart but the diuretics actually made her so much worse and it was very scary to see. They are supposedly very safe in the short term, so we have a very unusual situation with her.. Snoopy was rare because he got heart failure so young but he was much easier to deal with than my other bun who has no symptoms apart from occasional choking episodes!

 

[mills&snoops]

This is the link I sent to my vet with one of Snoopy's noises on it.. you probably need it up really loud to hear it..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O3tNs2ftEvmKcqWvPjVi0F1jliRFZZoe/view?usp=sharing

 

[mills&snoops]

Actually, this is a better link to his noise
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12HzlV6GZtk4WoVLUPT3rgOeMsPeQaFxe/view?usp=sharing

 

[MiliMilo]

Snoopy is on half a 1.25mg Vetmedin tablet (pimobendan) twice a day and he weighs just over 2kg. I think it'd be a similar dose for most rabbits that sort of size. He's on one fifth of a 2.5mg tablet of fortekor once a day (I have to cut it into 5 pieces, but actually we started him on one tenth so that would be the starting dose). His symptoms were v, v vague, barely there at all, he was mostly just staring into space a lot whilst sitting upright but nothing really of note. He would chatter a bit too in pain but he does have another condition that causes pain so it's hard sometimes to tell what's what with him. How old is your bun and what breed is she? If she's a lop or a short faced breed it could be normal for their age to make noises but it's really alarming when you hear them!

I noticed an improvement within a couple of weeks. We started Snoopy on vetmedin and frusol (the diuretic) to begin with and he became a lot more active, binkying etc. That was really the first sign, he just became less lethargic. He still makes his funny noises, mostly when he's moulting and his gut is struggling I think (I think when he's a bit bloaty it squashes his lungs even further). He's never had problems with appetite either, always eaten and never really shown much of anything except lethargy and looking very vacant. At first we thought he was having absence seizures but now we're sure it was his heart all along. It's very hard without imaging to know for sure.

Like I said with my other bunny, I suspected her heart but the diuretics actually made her so much worse and it was very scary to see. They are supposedly very safe in the short term, so we have a very unusual situation with her.. Snoopy was rare because he got heart failure so young but he was much easier to deal with than my other bun who has no symptoms apart from occasional choking episodes!

Can i ask about Vetmedin and Fortekor usage at the same time? Because from what i read, both meds treat the same problems within the heart. Did you use both of them at the same time? Or replaced one with the other? Both of them seemed like strong stuff to use at the same time.

Milo is a mixed breed (Lionhead and Palomino i guess?). I got her from local breeder. She weighs about 3.4 - 3.5kg. She used to be on the chonkier side when she's young at around 4 - 4.5kg but she lost a lot of weight when she had reoccuring respiratory problems last year.

How old is your other rabbit when she had the choking episodes? How did she managed now? Did the choking episode gone now? It's hard to say for sure because i rarely see rabbit experienced choking as symptoms for disease, i've seen my rabbit choking like once from her pellets.

 

[MiliMilo]

This is the link I sent to my vet with one of Snoopy's noises on it.. you probably need it up really loud to hear it..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O3tNs2ftEvmKcqWvPjVi0F1jliRFZZoe/view?usp=sharing

From this vn i could hear that his breathing constantly produced wheezing sounds. Is this "noisy weird sound" occurence episodic? 2 minutes of wheezing sounds like constant to me. How long is this wheezy breathing lasts? How often do you see him having this trouble in one day?

Milo really rarely wheeze like this. But when she do, it's like 5 seconds and she's back to normal. She did "the wheezing" when she's lying down with her head completely flat on the floor. And she did the "raspy snory gasp" sound when she's relaxed and eating. One gasp and it's loud. She didn't have constant fits like yours did. The raspy snory sound appear more often than the wheezing in her.

 

[mills&snoops]

His noise is actually very rare, not even weekly, I think it happens when he's in a bad moult. My vet has listened to it and said it's coming from his larynx but we're not really sure if it's connected to his heart - but his breathing is slightly laboured when he gets it. It rarely happens though, it started 3 years ago and comes and goes v occasionally. Whereas his squeaky noises when grooming are different and not a wheeze. He also only does it when he's at rest too, never when he's upright. Or when he's vet stressed (which is why the vet heard it when cleaning his ears). It doesn't seem to bother him at all though.

Yes, you have to be careful with heart meds. If I were you I would trial diuretics at a low dose, if you are able to get them. They are usually used for this condition and my vet prefers to start them on diuretics (furesomide) as a first line of treatment. Millie was started at 0.4ml twice a day. If the noises go away on that you will know it's doing something.
Does anything make the noises worse, like heat? I noticed Snoopy's heart failure when I had him outside (He's an indoor bun) in 30 degrees, he came back in and started panting and making a funny noise. That's when I realised. Now we have air conditioning he doesn't get laboured like that.
So we started on diuretics and vetmedin to begin with for Snoopy, with zero side effects. He just got more lively, binkying around (the noises with him didn't start until he'd been on medication for some time so whether they're connected I don't know) , but I could tell by his behaviour he just became far more energetic. Then he started to slow down and the vet could 'hear' his heart was more enlarged so we put him on fortekor. So he was on vetmedin, fortekor and frusol at the same time. That was 3 years or more ago now and he's never looked back honestly. He hasn't had any side effects from any of it. But that's why they start those meds really low doses. The three drugs do completely different things. Vetemedin and fortekor work in a completely different way. I don't really understand how but I believe vetemedin is recommended first for an enlarged heart in dogs generally and they are living 'for years' on it according to my dog. Snoopy is the longest living rabbit she's had on these meds but most of them presented at end stage unlike mine.

Millie's choking episodes, I call them that but she's actually not choking on food, she's choking from fluid in her lungs. They happen maybe once a month and then completely stop. Before Christmas they got a bit more frequent and her x-rays showed her heart was 'borderline' enlarged so we trialled diuretics. In her case that went really wrong!She had these episodes of choking and expelling clear fluid from her mouth/ nose for 4 nights in a row. She has something v rare and it clearly wasn't the right treatment for her. I think we've pretty much ruled out her heart as the cause, but we're waiting for the CT next week to see if we get answers. No vet so far has seen anything like this. She's almost 9 so I was expecting problems. Whereas Snoopy was only 1.5 when he got diagnosed with an enlarged heart (his is genetic we figure). I had a relative of his, his uncle and he was ill all his short life too. Both mine are mini lops but from different breeders. Millie is better built than Snoopy, she was a rejected 'show' bunny!

 

[MiliMilo]

His noise is actually very rare, not even weekly, I think it happens when he's in a bad moult. My vet has listened to it and said it's coming from his larynx but we're not really sure if it's connected to his heart - but his breathing is slightly laboured when he gets it. It rarely happens though, it started 3 years ago and comes and goes v occasionally. Whereas his squeaky noises when grooming are different and not a wheeze. He also only does it when he's at rest too, never when he's upright. Or when he's vet stressed (which is why the vet heard it when cleaning his ears). It doesn't seem to bother him at all though.

Yes, you have to be careful with heart meds. If I were you I would trial diuretics at a low dose, if you are able to get them. They are usually used for this condition and my vet prefers to start them on diuretics (furesomide) as a first line of treatment. Millie was started at 0.4ml twice a day. If the noises go away on that you will know it's doing something.
Does anything make the noises worse, like heat? I noticed Snoopy's heart failure when I had him outside (He's an indoor bun) in 30 degrees, he came back in and started panting and making a funny noise. That's when I realised. Now we have air conditioning he doesn't get laboured like that.
So we started on diuretics and vetmedin to begin with for Snoopy, with zero side effects. He just got more lively, binkying around (the noises with him didn't start until he'd been on medication for some time so whether they're connected I don't know) , but I could tell by his behaviour he just became far more energetic. Then he started to slow down and the vet could 'hear' his heart was more enlarged so we put him on fortekor. So he was on vetmedin, fortekor and frusol at the same time. That was 3 years or more ago now and he's never looked back honestly. He hasn't had any side effects from any of it. But that's why they start those meds really low doses. The three drugs do completely different things. Vetemedin and fortekor work in a completely different way. I don't really understand how but I believe vetemedin is recommended first for an enlarged heart in dogs generally and they are living 'for years' on it according to my dog. Snoopy is the longest living rabbit she's had on these meds but most of them presented at end stage unlike mine.

Millie's choking episodes, I call them that but she's actually not choking on food, she's choking from fluid in her lungs. They happen maybe once a month and then completely stop. Before Christmas they got a bit more frequent and her x-rays showed her heart was 'borderline' enlarged so we trialled diuretics. In her case that went really wrong!She had these episodes of choking and expelling clear fluid from her mouth/ nose for 4 nights in a row. She has something v rare and it clearly wasn't the right treatment for her. I think we've pretty much ruled out her heart as the cause, but we're waiting for the CT next week to see if we get answers. No vet so far has seen anything like this. She's almost 9 so I was expecting problems. Whereas Snoopy was only 1.5 when he got diagnosed with an enlarged heart (his is genetic we figure). I had a relative of his, his uncle and he was ill all his short life too. Both mine are mini lops but from different breeders. Millie is better built than Snoopy, she was a rejected 'show' bunny!

Milo also had that wheezy weird noises really rarely when she's lying flat on the floor. Her breathing also labored a bit whenever the noises come around. She never made strange breathing noises when she's vet stressed, that's why my vet couldn't hear anything whenever i bring her around. The-one-raspy-snory-loud-gasp that she did sounds kinda deep and not squeaky at all. That snore doesn't bother her at all too. Wheezy ones did.

For diuretics, did u give him orally or via injection? Which brand did u use? What about the dosage/kg body weight? I personally never dealt with injectables firsthand so i might need some guidance from my vet. She must've atleast know that much. I need to consult to her too about the treatment route that i'm willing to go down with Milo. If she knew something about these meds, i need to know about some precaution and correct doses based on her current condition. Because all of the meds for cardiac buns are basically off-brand for cats and dogs, she should atleast have some knowledge to based her opinion on some extent. Also, did u have blood test before trying on meds? Because i read that frusol might've affected the kidney.

I never noticed certain condition that made her breathing worse other than relaxing, eating cecals and grooming because she had less outdoor exercise since she had trouble with her eyesight. Her right eye is completely blind and her left eyesight is deteriorating. I left her hutch open but she's never go out, she prefers to be in her hutch which she feels comfortable strolling around without stumbling into something. Currently she's acting a little bit strange, with overgrooming, grinding teeth and somewhat appeared uncomfortable whenever she's relaxed. Did yours appear like this too? I spend a lot of my time by her side right now, and this behaviour is unusual for her.

You said your vet added fortekor when he's starting slowing down on vetmedin + frusol. How long did u use vetmedin + frusol before you need to add fortekor for him? I saw vetmedin and fortekor had variables dosage. The lowest dosage for vetmedin is 1.25mg and 2.5mg for fortekor. Did u use the lowest dosage for him ever since he's been prescribed with the meds?Or did the dosage increased along the way?

It's so hard to see our baby had choking episode like that. My heart was dropping when i saw one of my rabbits choking like that too in the past. It just feels somewhat wrong. Keep updating about Millie condition. I hope the poor girl did manage with these rarely strange condition she's been into. I can't imagine your frustration right now. My thoughts goes to you, Millie and Snoopy.

 

[MiliMilo]

Currently she's acting a little bit strange, with overgrooming, grinding teeth and somewhat appear uncomfortable whenever she's relaxed. She had teary eye and gooey mucus in her right eye. She always had teary eyed ever since she had respiratory problems in 2019, but the gooey mucus is new. I don't know which ones caused her strange behaviour, the gooey eye mucus or her heart. But her breathing didn't change at all, it's still the same as before. Did yours appear like this too? I spend a lot of my time by her side right now, and this behaviour is unusual for her.