EMERGENCY- new borns cold

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jil101ca

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North Bay, Ontario, Canada
My flemish had her babies this afternoon- 8 ofthem- i went to ckeck her and saw one in her box not covered, it is-25c today.... i checked it and i wasn't moving. I looked around herbox and found 7 more, total 8 i managed to get 6 breathing and moving,2 were too far gone to save. I have them in the house warming them withwarm towels.

When is it safe to take them back to Mom???? their skin still feels socold yet and it's been 45 mins since I found them. all 6 are movingaround but some are still blueish looking. i need help here!!! Mom hadthem scattered all over her box and didn't cover them with the hair shepulled. She is a first time mom and made a beautiful nest.
 
Oh my....it is definitely cold there.

First of all, get them warm......I like to put them all snuggledtogether in a washcloth or towel in a box and keep them pushed togetherby putting something else in teh box with the towel (so they can't getout).

Some folks will put them in a box and then put the box on a heating padset on low....I always get nervous about that. I think I'd put a drywashcloth on top of the heating pad and then put the box on top of that.

Honestly I think I'd keep the babies inside and either bring mama in acouple of times per day to feed them or take them out to her a coupleof times per day...

Peg
 
My heating pad has a quilted cover on it, so it doesn't get too warm.



I used to make a little nest out of towells then put that on top of theheating pad to keep the babies warm when they where tiny and I wantedto visit with them. Can you make something like that?



They'll need some sort of external heat untill they are back to normalbody temperature. Once they are all warm, you should make anest for them. See if you can pull some fur from mom's tummyor you can use clean cotton puffs (the kind you find in the top ofvitamin bottles). You can by them at pharmacies or craftstores. Pull them apart a bit to make them fluffy then usethem instead of fur.



--Dawn
 
If they are very cold,hold them next to your skin(body temperature) to warm them up.Warm towels could help (a fewminutes in the dryer) to keepthem wrapped up and covered.

You could try to put them back in thenest, once theyrecover. Cover them up with thehair, and if you can pluck somemore off of the mother toget more hair.

I hope someone with more experience can reply.

Edit... I type too slow, some already replied. ;)

 
when i found them none were breathing, we're fighting to keep the 5 alive that are



Another is dead and we are working to keep the rest breathing, 1 isturning a nice pink but the others are still blueish, hubby justbrought #5 back, it was very blue.I have them in a basket on theregister over and under towels. going out now to get some of mama'shair...
 
I found that using a heating pad worked reallywell. You need to provide them with lots of heat to get themback up to normal body temperature.

I'm concerned about the ones that are blue. Does the littleset up you have feel warm when you put your hands in? Itshould feel very warm but not burning or uncomfortable.

--Dawn
 
It sounds like you are on the right track. It isimportant to give them an external source of heat for right now. Do youhave a heat lamp (they have the red bulbs)? Even a desk lamp aimed overthem will help for the meantime. I've heard of breeders taking the babyand putting it in a plastic bag (with the head sticking out) anddunking it in warm water to get the temp up quickly. You just have tobe careful not to get the baby itself wet.

In the case of a first time mom, that didn't quite get it right- I'dkeep the babies inside and bring them out to her to feed twice (once isok, but if she'll feed them twice, it won't hurt) a day. Leave her nestintact. When they get a little bit of fur covering them, I'd tryputting them back out with her again. Sometimes it works, sometimes itwon't.
 
I'm down to 4 now, this is heartbreaking... the4 that are left are now pink and feel warm to the touch, I bought someof mom's hair in to cover them when the hair warms up.how soon should itake them back to mom to feed? Mom is frantic over her missing babies.Also when i take them to her how should do it?? should i justtake the little box i have them in or should i put them in her nestuntil she is done with them, or put the little box inside her nestbox????
 
Do you have any way to bring mom inside? At all?

I feel bad for mom and I'ev had does grieve over losing babies - butI'm really worried that if you take them outside they will be too coldin that temperature.

It would be better to bring mom into them either to nurse them and thengo back outside - or to live in a box or something (even in a sparebathtub) until they at least get their fur.

I'm not trying to discourage you - I'm really not. Its just - I'm notsure if they will huddle close enough to stay warm enough - especiallysince they got chilled so badly.

I had some get chilled today (she had them on the wire) and they'renustled in with another litter that was warm and their body temp iscloser to normal (after 5 hours) but I'm still a bit concerned -especially since mama didnt' make a nest and just had them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is - I'd do what I can to keep them inside till they get fur...if possible.

By the way - on the lionhead list - someone shared recently that whenit is really cold - if you shake it out - lint from the dryer can workfor lining a nest too (like if it is cold and mama doesn't pull fur).

Peg
 
The first i got to breath is doing really well,nice and pink very warm and looking to feed, the other 3 are feelingwarm (although not so much as the first) and moving around asmall amount. I have them in a small box 6"x6" lined with handtowelsand covered with mom's hair.What are the odds of the 4 left ofsurviving after getting so very cold?? My first liter by a differentdoe i had 3 get cold after getting of the box on e by one and evenafter wwarming them good i stll lost those 3 the following day and theywere 14 days old at the time.

I have concerns about bringing mom in. she has spent her entire lifeoutside andis well climatized for the temp. She is draft freewhere she is. I'm afraid that she will get sick from coming from thecold -25cto the warm +22c. thats a drastic change. What aboutmoving mom to the back porch??? it's about -12 there.
 
How about this (I wish we had more experienced breeders online right now - my problem is usually heat and not cold).

Can you bring mama in to the porch and let her nurse there....and dothat for the next few days? Let the babies maybe live on the porchnestled in the box....until either it warms up a bit or the babies havemore fur?

Peg
 
OOps - meant to say - bring her in for nursing and let her go back outside after she nurses...maybe 2-4 times per day?

I wish I was more help...

Peg
 
The babies can stay in the house in their box inthey really need to until they get some fur. How would i go aboutbringing mom in to nurse?? she weighs about 20 lbs or so. Would I holdher over their little box? should I bring her nest box in so it seemsfamilar to her. She has never been in a house so would be scared iwould think. What about taking the babies in their little box out toher and putting it in her nest box while she nursed, then bring themback in the house?? I'm sorry for so many questions but i really don'twant to lose the whole litter. Mom is my pride and joy and i have beenwaiting soooo long for her to have babies.

one the ones that did not make it was pure black,1 was pink and black spotted,1 pink and 1 a orange colour.
 
Yikes, missed this. :( I'mnot a breeder, but I'd think bringing the kits out to mom a couple oftimes a day will work. Or the porch, if it doesn't stress herout being there. You'd be able to leave the kits with herlonger and let her keep them sooner.

And too late now, but here's a breeders trick for frozen babies:

Saving frozen kits

Breeding rabbits[/b] outside in the fall and spring can sometimescause immediate losses due to small litters, inexperienced mothers,poor nest building and colder then expected temperatures. SomeNovembers have been as warm[/b] as toast, and some get a blast ofarctic air unexpectedly. But I love to have Scorpio bunnies born, so Ialways try in the fall. The incidence of male kits[/b] born has beenhigher here in fall breedings. It will be interesting to see what thiscurrent litter yields.

So, Sunday morning as I picked up 3 stone cold[/b], non-breathingkits[/b], I knew that only 1.5 hours had gone by since I had fed mamaand she had pulled one wad of fur for nest building. I was pretty surethey hadn't been "gone" long. I put them all in my shirt against mychest and ran back to the house. Out came 3 sandwich bags and a shallowbowl. The bowl was half-filled with room temperature water[/b]. Eachkit went into a plastic bag with the TOP KEPT OPEN, and they werefloated in the water[/b] filled bowl. In about 5 minutes the white kitstarted breathing, and shortly thereafter, the other two began moving.Within 15 minutes they were squeaking and in 30 minutes (I had warmedup the water[/b] twice by this time by adding a cup, then two, of hotwater[/b]) they were extremely active, warm[/b] to the touch and normalin all ways. I decided they had NOT been fed by mama yet as theirtummies were not round but wrinkly looking, and so I trotted off to thebarn to get her and see about a forced-feeding. As I went into the nestarea to get some fur for future nest building, I spotted another blackkit under everything, also stone cold[/b]. So, back to the house at arun and into a plastic bag and then into the warm[/b] water[/b] hewent. This kit took longer to come back....about 15 minutes formovement and then 30 minutes for squeaking. I put him in the nest withhis siblings after an hour, as they were warm[/b] and would help himwarm[/b] up more, I was sure.

I tried a forced feeding with mama at that point, but the kits[/b] werenot responsive enough and I had to get to work, so I put them alltogether in a small cage, where mama could not ignore them. They wereisolated in a very quiet place, mama was fed well, and I kept myfingers crossed.

This morning (day 2) the three look fed and happy. Mama made a LOT ofnoise last night and I had visions of her tearing up the cardboard boxI had put in the cage to hold the nest of bunnies, but this morning allwas well.
 
When I need to have a mama nurse a litter thatshe's not caring for - I put the litter in the middle of a basket(remember though - lionheads are smaller than flemish). Then I put mamain the basket (its rectangular and about 2X her size) along with fruitloops, hay and her favorite treats (carrots or whatever).

I put mama on top of the babies and let them nurse under her. Sometimesshe will groom them and clean them and sometimes she won't. If shedoesn't - then I have to wipe them with a cloth.

I understand about carrying around a flemish - Tiny is 17 pounds and he HATES to be picked up and carried.

The way I see it- you have two options - remember though - I don'tbreed bigger rabbits and I don't breed up North where you have thishorrid weather.I'm so sorry that she got bred during the winter as thisis an awful thing to have going on right now. (I just talked to abreeder in Indiana and they lost 5 litters last night due to the coldsnap they've been having).

a. Take the babies outside to mama:

Pros: You don't have to mess with mama - she's in a familiarspot.
The babies will eventually get used to the cold (if they survive)

Cons: Will the babies get chilled on the way out to the nestand not be able to nurse because they're cold?
How long will you have to wait outside for them to nurse? (Will you getill from the cold)?
Will the temperature change going from inside to outside hurt thebabies? (I don't know)

b. Bring the mama inside to babies:

Pros: The babies stay in one temperature area - and theydon't get chilled while on their way out to nurse

You can stay fairly warm while they nurse

Cons: You have to mess with carrying mama in. You have tofind a large enough container for her to nurse them in (what about alarge oval/rectangular clothes basket?)


Your other option is to bring the babies out and just leave them inmama's nest. I'm sure that there are breeders who do this and maybethey would know how to keep them warm enough. Maybe they would be warmenough - I don't know.

I don't know the colors of your parents - but it sounds like you lost ablack and a broken black...and maybe a white? Its hard to say. Whatcolors did you breed together?


I think you're just going to have to decide what will work best for you and your situation.

If it were me, I'd be fixing up a box to have mama live in the porchuntil things warm up...and take the babies to her on the porch. Butthat's because I can't see myself taking babies out in -25 temps.....

Yeah. I'm a wimp!

Peg
 
Remove the nesting box from momma's pen andbring it into the house. Once or twice a day bring the warmbuns out to momma for a nursing, about 5-10 minutes is all thats reallyneeded if she goes in to feed. Rabbits usually only feedtheir young once-twice a day in the wild. Remove the box andbring it back inside where its warm. Do it again at nite ifyou feel better doing so. I usually take them out in themorning and momma will hop right in and feed them--then jumps out andis done. You can do that for a coupledays and then leave the nest in with momma if they are staying warm andhave full bellies. Good luck. v.





Just a side note, be sure to secure the box from dogs/cats etc. so they don't become hor'd'orves. :?
 
So they won't get too cold going from inside to outside?

Great....as I said, I don't deal with those low temps..

Peg
 
I have saved babies that were cold before by running lukewarm water over

them until they were moving and then using towels out of the dryer to warm

them up. They need to be warmed up quickly and then kept warm



I live in NH and it is 11° right now. I have 5 doeswith week old litters and

they are doing just fine in an unheated but insulated rabbitry. I use a 60W

light bulb over the cage in a metal shaded lamp with the bulb over one half

of the nest box. That way they can move under it or away from it. I will take

the lamp away when they come out of the nestbox.



Lots of breeders in the winter months will just bring out the babies in the

nestbox twice a day to let the doe feed them and then bring them back into

the house until they are jumping out of the nestbox and are fully furred.

Roger


 
I want to thank everyone for their helpyesterday. I was in panic mode. My flemish is my pride and I have beenwaiting since i got her for babies.. We did the best we could with whatwe had and 4 babies are alive and well.I though about warm water butwasn't sure how to go about it, but i knew i had to warm themfast.Should this happen again now I know exactly what to do,again, thank you.

The Mom was in panic mode so I took the little nest I made, towels andall and buried it deep in her box. She has pulled some more hair andthe babies are nice and toasty. I just ckecked them and they are allvery pink, warm and have nice big round bellies. Mom has calmed down aswell. I wanted to keep them in but my hubby didn't think that was agood idea as they would have to go out sooner or later and he thoughtit would be best if they were used to the temps.I was also afraid thatmom would hurt herself, she was throwng herself at the cage, biting thewire and digging at it. She did everything right up to the point of notcovering them.

I have yet to catch any babies being born. Does the mom usually havethem in one spot? My other 2 does seemed to have them in one spot. Didthis happen because Mamapeach is a first time mom and didn't now whatto do?

Again, thank you very much for you help.
 
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