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BethM

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maxysmummy wrote:
BethM wrote:
maxysmummy wrote:
i'm going to try and go semi-vegan. cut out all meat other than fish (i have an omega 3 deficiency) and be really selective of what animal products i use :)
If you eat fish, you are not "semi-vegan," you are pescetarian.
oooh thankyou!!! i didn't know there was a name for it :)
No problem. :) The term Vegan is a whole lifestyle, not just a diet. Vegans strive to avoid all animal products in all aspects of their life- food, clothing, personal care products, etc.
Someone is either vegan, or they're not vegan.
 

fuzz16

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i dont think anyone can be a vegan or vegetarian. there are inhibiting diseases that or circumstances or plain stupidity of not doing their research that could be extremely harmful to their diets...

if my immune system drops at all, i die...id rather not take the chance with tofu
 

fuzz16

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OakRidgeRabbits wrote:
What a horrible video...it's a shame that media like this is out there, falsely protraying world agriculture.

For accurate information about the agricultural industry in the United States, I'd suggest browsing the U.S. Department of Agriculture website as a starting point. There is a whole wealth of information there and many species also have their own national associations, like the ARBA for rabbits. So googling those is another great starting point as well. :)

this is the truth of what happens in a lot of places with our food animals. puppy mills are real. there are so many slaughter houses they cant keep them all under control.

there is a pig farm in northern, mo. my aunt has fount them for over 10 years. they take the pig manure and waste and spread it over their crop land, in turn going into the water, destroying habitats. my grandma has to be on breathing tubes whenever they spray the fields. trucks pass their house with hogs crammed in it and you can hear them screaming as they pass.

this video is reality. this is oscar meyer foods, ect
 

MiniLopHop

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Maxysmummy- try goat or sheep cheese. I can't have cow milk or products because I get an inflammation reaction, but the sheep and goat is ok occasionally. I drink almond milk. It tastes pretty close but only have 35 calories and more calcium than cow milk. I grew up on a diry farm and the cows were treated very well. If they are emotionally upset they don't give as much milk, hence you keep them as happy as possible.
I am trying to eat a lot less meat for health reasons. I do tend to crave red meat though when my iron gets low so I try eating rasins etc that are higher in iron every day.
I have not watched the video yet because my net book isn't fast enough to stream something that long. Will have to snag my husband's lap top at some point.
 

maxysmummy

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fuzz16 wrote:
i dont think anyone can be a vegan or vegetarian. there are inhibiting diseases that or circumstances or plain stupidity of not doing their research that could be extremely harmful to their diets...

if my immune system drops at all, i die...id rather not take the chance with tofu
tofu is god. its so amazing, most people are like "eww tofu" but if you cook it right it's incredible. just marinate a bit of firm tofu in soy sauce and then fry it. yuuumy !!!
 

maxysmummy

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BethM wrote:
maxysmummy wrote:
BethM wrote:
maxysmummy wrote:
i'm going to try and go semi-vegan. cut out all meat other than fish (i have an omega 3 deficiency) and be really selective of what animal products i use :)
If you eat fish, you are not "semi-vegan," you are pescetarian.
oooh thankyou!!! i didn't know there was a name for it :)
No problem. :) The term Vegan is a whole lifestyle, not just a diet. Vegans strive to avoid all animal products in all aspects of their life- food, clothing, personal care products, etc.
Someone is either vegan, or they're not vegan.
this vid has really opened my eyes... especially to thinks like leather >.< i'm going to stop using any animal derived products in clothes and shoes and makeup etc.

the saddest part was when they skinned the fox and he was still alive :(
 

OakRidgeRabbits

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fuzz16 wrote:
OakRidgeRabbits wrote:
What a horrible video...it's a shame that media like this is out there, falsely protraying world agriculture.

For accurate information about the agricultural industry in the United States, I'd suggest browsing the U.S. Department of Agriculture website as a starting point. There is a whole wealth of information there and many species also have their own national associations, like the ARBA for rabbits. So googling those is another great starting point as well. :)
this is the truth of what happens in a lot of places with our food animals. puppy mills are real. there are so many slaughter houses they cant keep them all under control.

there is a pig farm in northern, mo. my aunt has fount them for over 10 years. they take the pig manure and waste and spread it over their crop land, in turn going into the water, destroying habitats. my grandma has to be on breathing tubes whenever they spray the fields. trucks pass their house with hogs crammed in it and you can hear them screaming as they pass.

this video is reality. this is oscar meyer foods, ect
I am not saying that there are not people out there who abuse and neglect animals. However, these videos that are all over the internet are spreading false information. Companies (and even small family farms) that contribute legally to the food supply in the U.S. are regulated by the USDA and the FDA. No, the animals are not treated as house pets or pasture pets. But the abuse and neglect portrayed in videos on the internet are so far from reality.

You mentioned puppy mills, and it can be compared to that. It's similar to the difference between a registered, reputable breeder and a puppy mill. The same difference is seen in agriculture. Sure, there are bad situations out there and it is impossible to control everyone. But U.S. agriculture is not characterized by the abuse shown in this and other videos. I'm sure it isn't too hard for people to find and display bad examples of the industry. What they're not showing is the vast majority of the industry, which is concerned about the living situations and welfare of their production animals.:)
 

maxysmummy

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OakRidgeRabbits wrote:
fuzz16 wrote:
OakRidgeRabbits wrote:
What a horrible video...it's a shame that media like this is out there, falsely protraying world agriculture.

For accurate information about the agricultural industry in the United States, I'd suggest browsing the U.S. Department of Agriculture website as a starting point. There is a whole wealth of information there and many species also have their own national associations, like the ARBA for rabbits. So googling those is another great starting point as well. :)
this is the truth of what happens in a lot of places with our food animals. puppy mills are real. there are so many slaughter houses they cant keep them all under control.

there is a pig farm in northern, mo. my aunt has fount them for over 10 years. they take the pig manure and waste and spread it over their crop land, in turn going into the water, destroying habitats. my grandma has to be on breathing tubes whenever they spray the fields. trucks pass their house with hogs crammed in it and you can hear them screaming as they pass.

this video is reality. this is oscar meyer foods, ect
I am not saying that there are not people out there who abuse and neglect animals. However, these videos that are all over the internet are spreading false information. Companies (and even small family farms) that contribute legally to the food supply in the U.S. are regulated by the USDA and the FDA. No, the animals are not treated as house pets or pasture pets. But the abuse and neglect portrayed in videos on the internet are so far from reality.

You mentioned puppy mills, and it can be compared to that. It's similar to the difference between a registered, reputable breeder and a puppy mill. The same difference is seen in agriculture. Sure, there are bad situations out there and it is impossible to control everyone. But U.S. agriculture is not characterized by the abuse shown in this and other videos. I'm sure it isn't too hard for people to find and display bad examples of the industry. What they're not showing is the vast majority of the industry, which is concerned about the living situations and welfare of their production animals.:)
how are you so certain that these videos are "lies" ?
 

nermal71

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Not sure so much that they are lies, but its a case of a few bad occurances tainting all. It's like video taping say a man abusing his wife....and then saying all men are abusive. While the video would be true it wouldn't characterize all men. Yes there are cases were there are some really nasty sick humans who mistreat animals. But there are also many many who are humane in their treatment. Woulld it be fair for someone to say all rabbit owners are hoarders just because there are some who do? Or say that all pitbull ownders raise their dogs to fight because there are some that do? Its the same thing.
 

fuzz16

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i doubt its a few...we live in a nation thats more concerned with profit than health. which is why there has been lead found in canned fruits, and pesticides and fake coloring put on vegetables and fruits to make them look better. even some ranch dressing has MSG which is shown to cause cancer. but producers say its a minute amount so its safe...

do you really think a company cares about how the animals are raised, or killed. their going to do the cheapest way for them. waiting for an animal to be dead before cutting it up takes time, time that could be used to prep more, so why would they wait when they could do five more in the time it takes to kill one?
or psf to spread hog manure over land and in turn destroy habitats and causing possibly cancer in the future.

while every slaughter house may not be like the ones shown...what about the antibiotics poured into the animals bodies, the beatings the animals get. is that really what you want to eat? abcess infested pigs, animals hyped on steroids and antibiotics to be fattier, produce more milk, stay alive long enough to be big enough to be killed.

sorry to burst peoples bubbles...but this video does not lie, nor glorify anything to make something look worse. its an insight on what happens, maybe not EVERY SINGLE one...but statiscally...there are more worse people than good people here in the world...
 

maxysmummy

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nermal71 wrote:
Not sure so much that they are lies, but its a case of a few bad occurances tainting all. It's like video taping say a man abusing his wife....and then saying all men are abusive. While the video would be true it wouldn't characterize all men. Yes there are cases were there are some really nasty sick humans who mistreat animals. But there are also many many who are humane in their treatment. Woulld it be fair for someone to say all rabbit owners are hoarders just because there are some who do? Or say that all pitbull ownders raise their dogs to fight because there are some that do? Its the same thing.
I think it's more a sample of the industry than anything. rather than saying "all farmers are bad" it's more.... "all large scale commerical farming slaughter-houses treat their animals pretty poorly"
 

OakRidgeRabbits

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nermal71 wrote:
Not sure so much that they are lies, but its a case of a few bad occurances tainting all. It's like video taping say a man abusing his wife....and then saying all men are abusive. While the video would be true it wouldn't characterize all men. Yes there are cases were there are some really nasty sick humans who mistreat animals. But there are also many many who are humane in their treatment.  Woulld it be fair for someone to say all rabbit owners are hoarders just because there are some who do?   Or say that all pitbull ownders raise their dogs to fight because there are some that do?  Its the same thing.
Yep,exactly. The videos are not made up or lies, but they aren't good displays of how the ag industry is run. They are isolated incidents and horrible for sure. But rest assured, these actions aren't the norm.
 

OakRidgeRabbits

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fuzz16 wrote:
do you really think a company cares about how the animals are raised, or killed. their going to do the cheapest way for them. waiting for an animal to be dead before cutting it up takes time, time that could be used to prep more, so why would they wait when they could do five more in the time it takes to kill one?
or psf to spread hog manure over land and in turn destroy habitats and causing possibly cancer in the future.
People who are in the agricultural industry are animal lovers. There may be employees who work in poultry houses or something that don't really care and are just there for a job. But by and large, the people involved in agriculture love animals because honestly, there is not a lot of money to be made in the industry. You HAVE to love what you're doing to be a part of it.

Because that is the case (case being, not a lot of money to be made), you are right- the focus is on profits. For this reason, production animals do not live in vast pastures with acres to roam and green grass to eat. It costs to much. So they are in tighter conditions, fed a less natural diet, etc. However, this doesn't mean that production animals are abused.

I have seen videos on the internet of people processing animals before they are unconcious, beating livestock with tools to get them to move, etc. I will stop there because I know it's a very graphic presentation. This is abuse. But this abuse is not supported by or encouraged by the ag industry. Conditions may not be as luxurious as we wish them to be for animals as pets or the like, but they are not the horror that is seen in these videos. Although measures are taken to decrease cost and increase profit, beaten, abused, scared, sick, and dead animals don't help profits any- they are a loss. Like I said, some company employees may be there for "just a job", and these are often the people who are caught abusing animals. When that happens, there are corrective actions taken against these workers. Such acts are not simply not acceptable to you, me, or the farmers.

I hope this gives you a better understanding and explains things a bit better, although I could say so much more. I am directly involved in the ag industry, am studying it at college, and animal production in the U.S. is something my major focuses heavily on. I'm also great friends with many dairy and poultry farmers and am familiar with their practices. With that said, I don't know everything. But I am exposed to the industry enough that I hope what I've said can put your mind at ease. I understand where you're coming from, because information like this video is EVERYWHERE. It's hard not to believe it, and I did for a long time too. But these videos are comprised of very isolated incidents. Many and MOST farmers care very, very much about the welfare of their animals. Not only because they want the best for them (like any of us), but also because sick, dead, or abused animals are quite frankly just not condusive to efficient production.

I hope that explanation helps a little more. Please know I'm not trying to argue with you or what you're saying, because I know you speak from what you have seen as well. :) I just hate to see people turned away from the ag industry by misinformation like this video, so I try to give the other side whenever possible for consideration too.
 

maxysmummy

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OakRidgeRabbits wrote:
fuzz16 wrote:
do you really think a company cares about how the animals are raised, or killed. their going to do the cheapest way for them. waiting for an animal to be dead before cutting it up takes time, time that could be used to prep more, so why would they wait when they could do five more in the time it takes to kill one?
or psf to spread hog manure over land and in turn destroy habitats and causing possibly cancer in the future.
People who are in the agricultural industry are animal lovers. There may be employees who work in poultry houses or something that don't really care and are just there for a job. But by and large, the people involved in agriculture love animals because honestly, there is not a lot of money to be made in the industry. You HAVE to love what you're doing to be a part of it.

Because that is the case (case being, not a lot of money to be made), you are right- the focus is on profits. For this reason, production animals do not live in vast pastures with acres to roam and green grass to eat. It costs to much. So they are in tighter conditions, fed a less natural diet, etc. However, this doesn't mean that production animals are abused.

I have seen videos on the internet of people processing animals before they are unconcious, beating livestock with tools to get them to move, etc. I will stop there because I know it's a very graphic presentation. This is abuse. But this abuse is not supported by or encouraged by the ag industry. Conditions may not be as luxurious as we wish them to be for animals as pets or the like, but they are not the horror that is seen in these videos. Although measures are taken to decrease cost and increase profit, beaten, abused, scared, sick, and dead animals don't help profits any- they are a loss. Like I said, some company employees may be there for "just a job", and these are often the people who are caught abusing animals. When that happens, there are corrective actions taken against these workers. Such acts are not simply not acceptable to you, me, or the farmers.

I hope this gives you a better understanding and explains things a bit better, although I could say so much more. I am directly involved in the ag industry, am studying it at college, and animal production in the U.S. is something my major focuses heavily on. I'm also great friends with many dairy and poultry farmers and am familiar with their practices. With that said, I don't know everything. But I am exposed to the industry enough that I hope what I've said can put your mind at ease. I understand where you're coming from, because information like this video is EVERYWHERE. It's hard not to believe it, and I did for a long time too. But these videos are comprised of very isolated incidents. Many and MOST farmers care very, very much about the welfare of their animals. Not only because they want the best for them (like any of us), but also because sick, dead, or abused animals are quite frankly just not condusive to efficient production.

I hope that explanation helps a little more. Please know I'm not trying to argue with you or what you're saying, because I know you speak from what you have seen as well. :) I just hate to see people turned away from the ag industry by misinformation like this video, so I try to give the other side whenever possible for consideration too.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/20/hundreds-of-dead-birds-in_n_811709.html

to be honest this makes me seriously distrust any "animal loving" claims that the USDA cites on their website.

btw i hope you don't take offense to this/see this as argumentative, more... healthy debate :) if i am offending you let me know and i will delete my posts.
 

OakRidgeRabbits

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It's difficult for me to really respond to that article or the other claims made on this post because, in any industry, there are sour apples. There are people who do things incorrectly or not under regulation.

We could take teaching, for example. There are good teachers who really do their best to encourage learning in their students. And there are other teachers who just give their kids busy work while the teacher is just holding time in the classroom waiting for a promotion to administration.

Or, like pet owning. There are many good pet owners who take excellent care of their pets. However, there are many others who do not.

Does that mean that we should work to convert education entirely to homeschool to avoid bad teachers? Or completely eliminate animal ownership because of the bad pet owners? Or halt production agriculture because of the bad cases displayed in mass media?

I don't take offense to what you're saying and like discussing the topic too, because I think it's an important one to discuss. :) I definitely think there are a lot of changes we could make to ensure that even more animals are properly treated. There are always improvements to be made. It just seems like some of this media is trying to turn everyone completely against production agriculture because of animal abuse. Like I said, I don't think the industry is characterized by that. But I do think that it would be wonderful to maybe make changes to regulations in order to even further improve the industry.

On a side note- that's an interesting article, thanks for posting it! I had never heard the follow up to that bird story. Scary! It still seems a little fishy to me that they'd be poisoning tons of birds...I wonder if there were other motives?
 
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