Doe getting meaner after spay?

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gentle giants

gentle giants

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, Illinois, USA
I'm sure most of you have seen my thread about trying to find homes for some of my rabbits because of everything thatis going to be going on here next year.

Anyway, I was getting as many as possible neutered/spayed before finding them homes. Sophie is one that I got spayed. Before she was fixed, which was about three-four months ago BTW, she had some cage aggresion issues and was rather fearful of being touched. Now-I can't even open the door without getting attacked! She's even leaping at me before I open the door, as in attacking the wire!

I really don't get it, I have been so careful to avoid doing anything to frighten or stress her. I move slowly around her, talk in a calm and soothing voice, and she gets a stern tone when she scratches or bites me. Thankfully, now that it's colder I am wearing heavier clothes so she hasn't been able to actually do much physical damage. Do you think mabye she needs more toys? More play time? Although I will admit, I am a little nervous about picking her up and carrying her to the x-pen! Has anyone else ever had one do this, or have any ideas about what could be going on here?
 
It could just be a coincidence with the spay. How old is she? Could she just be going through her teenage years and being more aggressive?

If its at all possible, I would try to give her more run time and maybe some toys (something to shred) to work out her aggression.
 
I really don't have any idea how old she is, she is one of my rescues. The local shelter took her and several othersaway from her owners because they had starved some of their rabbits to death. She does like tearing paper, and toliet paper tubes. I will give her some more of those.
 
I did read that, actually, thanks. If I could see any one of those things being the cause of this, it wold be clearer to me what to do. The closest I can come is the territorial/cage agression issue, which likeI said she had some of before. WhatI can't figure out is why it would have gotten so much worse so abruptly, I think it was about two-three weeks ago. I can't think of anything that has changed, either about my behavior or the environment, etc.
 
Does her aggression/meanness seem to go in cycles? My bunny, Dr. Melody Frankenbunny was rehomed to me because of her feistiness. She was down right evil toward her former owner and her companion rabbit. I happen to like feisty rabbits so I adopted her from Jess (another forum member here and on LL). Her meanness started after she was spayed.

I took Melody to my rabbit savvy vet who x-rayed her and found a narrowing in the discs on her back. He thought she might possibly be getting pain from this and started her on Metacam. Mel continued to have her moods and they seemed to be in cycles. The vet speculated it was possible some ovarian tissue was - even a miniscule amount - was left behind after the spay. He indicated testing hormones in rabbits is very expensive and only done at one facility in the US. I opted not to do the testing. Even if inappropriate hormone levels were found, it would be a fishing expedition to do surgery to remove tiny amounts of tissue.

The 'cure' for Melody has been to let her have free run. She is a rabbit who really needs a lot of space. Even if you can't allow free run, I'm wondering if your girl could benefit from extra time out of the cage. It certainly has improved Mel's disposition. She is still very territorial with her space and still feisty to eveyone but me and my DH. Her favorite hobby is biting and attacking visitors, repair people, etc. She doesn't just bite, she bites and hangs on.

She also bonded herself with a tiny mni-rex I rescued. In her former home, Mel was an unholy terror to the other rabbits. Here, she is bonded to 2 bunny boys. Maybe the right companion would help mellow your girl's disposition.

I also found these comments in a article I was reading:

A possibly reason is that she was spayed before she reached adolescence. Now that she's experiencing adolescent urges, it may appear that nothing (behavioral) has been accomplished. I tell people not to expect dramatic or abrupt changes and that it can take as long as eight months for a recalcitrant rabbit to calm down. I'm implying that it takes that long for the hormone level to drop in some rabbits, but that also allows some time for maturity.



 
I don't know if her attitude goes in cycles or not, it's only been a couple of weeks since she really started doing this, so we'll see. I gave her a few pages out a phonebook last night to shred, and she seemed a little calmer this morning. I give her as much out time as I can, but I only have one x-pen and 24 rabbits that all need out time also. I have tried intorducing her to a couple of different bunnies, both neutered males, neither really went very well. I will try her with someone else after teh holiday confusion is over. I don't know, mabye it's just gonna be one of those things I will have to wait out. ONly problem is, she's not very adoptable this way, so she will have to stay with me until this issue is solved, assuming it can be.
 
Sounds like she might need more time out (and I know you've got limitations there), toys, and - just maybe - attention. (Again, not meant as a slam - some bunnies really seem to thrive on it, while others don't need nearly as much.)

Are all of your bunnies in close proximity to one another? Also, am wondering how much of this is due to the fact that she came from a really horrible living situation... If only because my bun was fairly nippy for about 6 months after I got her - in her case, I think it was a combination of things - age-related (spayed, but clearly a "teen" bun), definite "top bunny" attitude plus - a guess on my part - likely mishandling prior to her being surrendered. She's fine now, but her need to assert herself was trying at times.


 
Bebe is a 4 year old doe andwas spayed 3 months ago. Things don't change right after a spay, but over time, Bebe has become a gentler and milder rabbit. Her litter habits has improve 100%, and she doesn't thump like she did when we got her in August.After her spay, we tried bonding Bebe and Pebbles. But Bebewas not accepted by Pebbles and the two was combative, competitive, and had terrible fights. But now she runs and hides from Pebbles and will only defend herself if Pebbles is attacking her.

The only fault she has, is some aggression first thing in the morning, when she is hungry, and she can't wait to get some food. Most mornings she would growl and lunge at my wife's hand when she tries to reach in the cage with food. On Thursday morning, Bebe bit my finger when I put some food in her cage. This type of behavior only happens first thing in the morning. The rest of the day, she would follow you around like a puppy, and always runs to you, and melts in your arms if you cuddle her.

I don't know if you can see this link from Buck's Bunny Bistro, but that is the incident where I got bit by Bebe for the first time....
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=30994&forum_id=24
 
Is it possible for you to let Bebe come out of her cage when she's going to be fed? Should make it easier for everyone!
 
I know the improvement doesn't happen right away, it took Charity something like two-three months to start calming down after I had her done. I have noticed that Sophie is worse in the am before being fed, but she is tsill not nice the rest of the time either. :(

I am sure at least part of her problem is from the environment she was taken out of, I jsut wish I knew why it has gotten worse so abruptly. She will allow me to pet he while she is eating, I think mostly because she refuses to move away from her food dish. So I will pet her while she is eating, and praise her a lot for lettign me, even though she still is sitting there growling the whole time I am touching her. It has seemed to help a little if I give her something that si easily destroyed, like paper or a toilet paper tube. Then I also make sure she has some thing tougher to throw around after that, like one of my wood block toys. She hasn't had any out time in three days, unfortunatly, because I have been out of town visiting family, and I didni't want my mother, who was feeding for me, to get bitten or scratched up while I was gone. I am goign to try and get her out tonight, though, if she doesn't beat me up when I try it. :?
 
I've been thinking about this thread and wondering if maybe she's not feeling well and is trying to tell you that something is wrong in one of the only ways she can... have heard too much elsewhere about odd behavior (whether it's nipping, litterbox habits gone all to h*ll, etc.) from buns that are ill to believe that it could easily be a sign that something is wrong...

I'm not saying that to frighten anyone, but am wondering if she's had a thorough "well bunny" checkup since you got her? If not, it sounds like this would be a great time to have that done, for the two of you. :)

Wish you weren't so far away - I'd like to hang out with her for a while and see what happens... (I seem to have a thing for feisty, aggressive girls - at least, Nibbles used to be pretty wild/nippy and we somehow made it through in one piece! ;))

ETA: has anything changed - new buns, new furniture, new smells, new/different anything? I wonder if she feels a need to defend her territory because something is upsetting her, or making her feel threatened... (though you may never know what's triggering this, given the conditions she came from, poor girl.)
 
So far as I can think of, nothing has changed. I don't know about a health issue, everything (poops, eating, drinking, etc.) seems normal. No wet nose or anything.



Wait, one thing did just occur to me. I think this behavior may have started around the time that I first took her on a bunny date. I have mentioned on another thread about how I am trying to find two well-suited bunnies to bond in my group, and I had introduced Sophie to two different guys to see how they would get along. I never put either of the boys in her cage, of course, they met in the play pen, but mabye this is makingher feel insecure?
 
Could be.... (the dates, boys, etc.).

As for vet stuff, they're so good at hiding pain - teeth is one of the first things that comes to mind as far as a thorough checkup, etc. Goodness knows, pain makes me cranky as all get out - can't imagine that animals are much different in that respect.
 
gentle giants wrote:
So far as I can think of, nothing has changed. I don't know about a health issue, everything (poops, eating, drinking, etc.) seems normal. No wet nose or anything.



Wait, one thing did just occur to me. I think this behavior may have started around the time that I first took her on a bunny date. I have mentioned on another thread about how I am trying to find two well-suited bunnies to bond in my group, and I had introduced Sophie to two different guys to see how they would get along. I never put either of the boys in her cage, of course, they met in the play pen, but mabye this is makingher feel insecure?
Click to expand...
Now there's a thought. Whenmelody and Wilbur were first bonding, Melody would get all sulky and go hide whenever I put Wil back in his pen. She wasn't insecure, just missing the companionship. Don't you wish you could ask her? I would give anything to speak bunny language.
 
I wasn't sure if you were able to see the thread in Buck's Bunny Bistro, so I will copy it here....

Pet_Bunny wrote:
Bebe bit me this morning. :bawl:

Every morning I tend to the bunnies before I go to work. "WAKE UP BUNNIES!"
Today, Pebbles had some pee on the cage floor, so I cleaned it up before I gave the girls their food.

Bebe was too hungry, got too excited and impatient. When I reached down into her cage with a bowl of food, she lunged at my hand and clamped down on my middle finger. I pulled my hand out, lifting her as her teeth was clenched onto my finger.
It must of been the scent from Pebble's pee, that set Bebe off.

Bebe is always the sweetest and most cuddliest bunny when she's with me.
Sheonly growls at andattacks my wife before, but this is the first time she bit me.



6l08xzm.jpg


I soaked my finger with Liquid Bandage to glue the skin backand bandaged it up before heading off for work.
This is what it looks like now, before I put on some Polysporin and bandage it up.
Click to expand...

So it seems that Bebe attacked my hand when I had Pebbles scent and pee on it.
My wife is worst because she has Pebbles and our dog's scent first thing in the morning.
Bebe doesn't get along with Pebbles, and is very afraid of the dog.
 
It's happened a few times with our shelter rabbits..

Serena was a poor girl who was passed from family to family because the kids eventually got bored of her.

However, she managed to keep her spirits up, and be one happy - friendly little bun. When after she came back from her spay, wow was she a nasty little thing. I don't think it has anything to do with the Vet, as all of our rabbits are fixed by the same Vet.

I really don't know what causes it..

-April
 
Oh, Stan! I'm so sorry:(.

That does happen and I think you're right in your assumption of why it happened;).

I know with my first rabbit, BunBun(nothing to do with a spay, but just rabbit nature), who was a big boy, if you had potato chips, and proceeded to pet him? CHOMP! Right down on my husband's finger when we had company:shock:. He can't stand the sight of blood from almost taking his lower leg off with a chainsaw that got out of control, he just sits and let'sblood dripgo onto the carpet, he could not move. Sheesh:shock:, that's one of my worse, rabbit stories:?. He knew better than to try and pet him with that smell on his hand, he did, and so did I. Lessons learned:).

We do not look bad onto buns because of it, but learned from it ( at least he did:p), don't put food smelling hand down to a bun:D!
 
My bun has gotten *very* ticked off with me when she's smelled other animals on me - dogs, that is. Not cats, not rabbits.

And she once zoomed across the room and started frantically biting my feet (hard!) right after I began using a new moisturizer on them. I have no idea what was in that stuff that made her act crazy (a "secret" ingredient, no doubt ;)), but she'd never done that before and hasn't done it since. Lesson learned!
 
Yes, right after Buzz got here he got me really good a couple of times too. He was unneutered then, and had never been around (within sight/scent) of a doe before he came here. So when he was suddenly thrown into a situation where he didn't know me, was smelling and seeing does all around him, and wasn't getting all the junk food his former owners were giving him, he was one po'd bunny!

The first time he got my index finger, sliced it open good. The second time he got ahold of my thumb, low donw on the big joint, and clamped on. As in I pulled my hand back, and he was swinging from it. My 15pound Sammy has gotten me pretty good too, I have a scar the exact size of his top teeth. So yeah, they can sure do some damage when they want to! I ought to keep pics of those bites around for those people who think a rabbit is just a little fuzzy critter that can't do anything. :?
 
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