We switched them off of alfalfa pellets about a year ago; right now we're feeding them Oxbow Timothy pellets. We used to feed them Kay-Tee Timothy pellets, but Oxbow is cheaper since I can order 50lb bags, and comes just as highly reccomended.
Digestive tract obstruction
- Thread starter ubrch
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Bo B Bunny
Well-Known Member
UGH! I hate when I type something and then it times out or something!
Anyhow, I'm so glad Chud is doing well. I hope he continues to get better.
I was thinking you might check into one of those wire grid under the shelf baskets you can find at Walmart - it would hang sideways on the cage and provide a great space for hay.
Also, I just want to touch on something here. I can understand how you might question someone giving advice on a message board online. I agree and think that is wise. However, I did sense that you were questioning his abillities as well.
Randy's questions to you about where you were told this, and his suggestions are from TONS of knowledge he has aquired from being a rehabber. Although we always prefer you find a good vet, sometimes we find that there are questionable practices.
Randy wasn't asking you if a martian sent light code messages about laxatives, but was seeking to find if you read this on some internet site, or got the info from a non-rabbit savvy vet or something. I guess we all need to clarify why we ask, but it's so often we see stuff like this, we forget that others don't know.
Personally, our vet was going to give my bunny topical ivermectin "just incase" there was an issue they didn't find with mites. She also said there was no danger in it. I opted not to do that. There is danger in anything being given to most bunnies and unless my rabbit needs it - he's not getting it. I trust my exotics vet completely, and her assistant vet (who was the one who treated Bo that day) but still didn't agree with the ivermectin.
Bunnies are such a unique group and we are learning every day about new treatments, things that don't work, etc. So, I also suggest you look at all of your resources and make a decision.
JUST FYI, here's some of what Randy does: Sabrina's House
Anyhow, I'm so glad Chud is doing well. I hope he continues to get better.
I was thinking you might check into one of those wire grid under the shelf baskets you can find at Walmart - it would hang sideways on the cage and provide a great space for hay.
Also, I just want to touch on something here. I can understand how you might question someone giving advice on a message board online. I agree and think that is wise. However, I did sense that you were questioning his abillities as well.
Randy's questions to you about where you were told this, and his suggestions are from TONS of knowledge he has aquired from being a rehabber. Although we always prefer you find a good vet, sometimes we find that there are questionable practices.
Randy wasn't asking you if a martian sent light code messages about laxatives, but was seeking to find if you read this on some internet site, or got the info from a non-rabbit savvy vet or something. I guess we all need to clarify why we ask, but it's so often we see stuff like this, we forget that others don't know.
Personally, our vet was going to give my bunny topical ivermectin "just incase" there was an issue they didn't find with mites. She also said there was no danger in it. I opted not to do that. There is danger in anything being given to most bunnies and unless my rabbit needs it - he's not getting it. I trust my exotics vet completely, and her assistant vet (who was the one who treated Bo that day) but still didn't agree with the ivermectin.
Bunnies are such a unique group and we are learning every day about new treatments, things that don't work, etc. So, I also suggest you look at all of your resources and make a decision.
JUST FYI, here's some of what Randy does: Sabrina's House
Erik is on Laxatone on a regular basis. He has problems with constipation. We stopped for a while, but *sigh* he had some pretty bad problems a few days ago. He's doing fine again now....
Laxatone can help, it doesn't always but it can. In certain cases it's a pretty good idea.
The difference between rabbit hairballs and cat hairballs is that cat hairballs are made primarily of hair and feces, and are shaped as an actual ball. When a rabbit has slowed peristalsis liquids move through relatively easily out of the stomach but the dry masses don't, and leave a sort of "lump" of dry stuff in the stomach. It just sort of sits there, and even after stasis sets in the rabbit keeps eating (survival mechanism, they don't act sick until they're ready to fall over). The liquids move through the stomach relatively easily but the dry stuff just keeps clumping and clumping up. You start to get impactions. Then the dry stuff starts to ferment and can cause bloating/distension. Generally that's what people mean when they refer to "bloat", although some think it means any kind of bloating at all....
Another thing that can cause a "lump" is when a rabbit has a mouth sore or somehow hurts their teeth. They don't chew as well as they should, so the pieces going to their stomach are bigger, and it causes a sort of clump up and everything doesn't move as quickly as it should.....
If the Laxatone can actually get through the stomach then it can be a good idea as it can also help with some other problems such as constipation. It's a pretty good preventative thing to give.
Most of the rabbits that go into stasis that die, die because of hepatic lipidosis due to anorexia or a rupture of some sort.
This being said, the survival rate is generally considered to be a bit more than 2%, however surgery in herbivorous animals such as rabbits (and horses, and guinea pigs, and chinchillas, and....you get it) is always risky because of the chances of infeciton or post-operative complications. There are a lot of things in there that you really don't want to get out (Clostridium, for example.)
You can also try giving a handful of alfalfa if your rabbits have no calcium problems. It helps to stimulate peristasis, and a small amount is good for them.
Edited: Because I typed "fat" instead of "feces".
Laxatone can help, it doesn't always but it can. In certain cases it's a pretty good idea.
The difference between rabbit hairballs and cat hairballs is that cat hairballs are made primarily of hair and feces, and are shaped as an actual ball. When a rabbit has slowed peristalsis liquids move through relatively easily out of the stomach but the dry masses don't, and leave a sort of "lump" of dry stuff in the stomach. It just sort of sits there, and even after stasis sets in the rabbit keeps eating (survival mechanism, they don't act sick until they're ready to fall over). The liquids move through the stomach relatively easily but the dry stuff just keeps clumping and clumping up. You start to get impactions. Then the dry stuff starts to ferment and can cause bloating/distension. Generally that's what people mean when they refer to "bloat", although some think it means any kind of bloating at all....
Another thing that can cause a "lump" is when a rabbit has a mouth sore or somehow hurts their teeth. They don't chew as well as they should, so the pieces going to their stomach are bigger, and it causes a sort of clump up and everything doesn't move as quickly as it should.....
If the Laxatone can actually get through the stomach then it can be a good idea as it can also help with some other problems such as constipation. It's a pretty good preventative thing to give.
Most of the rabbits that go into stasis that die, die because of hepatic lipidosis due to anorexia or a rupture of some sort.
This being said, the survival rate is generally considered to be a bit more than 2%, however surgery in herbivorous animals such as rabbits (and horses, and guinea pigs, and chinchillas, and....you get it) is always risky because of the chances of infeciton or post-operative complications. There are a lot of things in there that you really don't want to get out (Clostridium, for example.)
You can also try giving a handful of alfalfa if your rabbits have no calcium problems. It helps to stimulate peristasis, and a small amount is good for them.
Edited: Because I typed "fat" instead of "feces".
Bo B Bunny
Well-Known Member
With that information, could you tell us when Erik was put on it? how old was he? and was it the first means of keeping him unblocked?
I think the question is why weren't other things tried first.
I think the question is why weren't other things tried first.
I got Erik when he was about two months old. After some serious stasis/blockage problems (in which I thought I would lose him for a while, and we had to go to the "last resort") he went on Laxatone, twice a week, 1/2 teaspoon, after recovering from surgery. After about two or so months we decreased it down to once a week. He stayed on it for a long time, until about Feb 2007. Then I decided to decrease it even further, once every ten days. Eventually I stopped altogether, in about April or so. He did great until a few days ago. Since then he is back on it and I think I will keep him on it for quite a while.
The first means of keeping him unblocked were Laxatone, and hay. He also is given a handful of alfalfa to keep the proper GI contractions moving.
The first means of keeping him unblocked were Laxatone, and hay. He also is given a handful of alfalfa to keep the proper GI contractions moving.
Bo B Bunny
Well-Known Member
yeah, that's what I was wondering. If they try other simpler solutions that fail then maybe it's necessary. Possibly after surgery it helps them ?
I guess it's one form of keeping them regular or at least trying. I just had heard always that those things don't work on rabbits.
Again, we find out something is in the "gray" area with rabbits. Imagine that!
onder:
I guess it's one form of keeping them regular or at least trying. I just had heard always that those things don't work on rabbits.
Again, we find out something is in the "gray" area with rabbits. Imagine that!
onder:Randy was quite right: the best means of prevention and keeping a normal GI tract is high-quality, high-fiber hay and a good diet. Laxatone, Catalax, mineral oil, and other laxatives are sort of just "add-ons". They *can* help. Doesn't mean they always do. Pretty much any rabbit medicine textbook will say that they are suitable under certain conditions and that they *can* be given. However hydration is really the most important thing.
Bo B Bunny
Well-Known Member
I was thinking that in humans - if they start taking laxatives all the time to go, they can become dependant on them.
So, my theory is that I wouldn't want to create a situation like that with a bunny - I'd prefer other more natural solutions.....
So, my theory is that I wouldn't want to create a situation like that with a bunny - I'd prefer other more natural solutions.....
Hello,
Chud seems to be doing well. His appetite looks normal, and he runs around and jumps. We were given Laxatone and Simethicone by the vet, and told to administer it twice a day for three days, or until Chud gets his appetite back.
We're making the following changes based on the advice given here, and the advice given by our vet:
-I'm changing the hay hopper they have. For the time being, they're getting a large, messy pile of hay each morning, and I'm noticing that when it isn't in the hopper, they eat more of it.
-We're probably going to give them laxatone on a regular basis. I'm thinking it's a good idea to smear some on their morning greens about once a week. Both bunnies hate Laxatone alone (but oddly enough, Chud has developed a taste for Simethicone and thinks it's a treat now), but they will eat it if it's smeared on food.
-Hay inside paper tubes with a treat in the middle seems like a good way to encourage hay eating.
As for Randy, he seems like a very knowledgable person, and I appreciate his advice. It was a vet from my clinic that suggested laxative as a preventative, and this opinion has been echoed by Ivory. Sometimes more subtle types of information that would otherwise be transmitted by body language don't make it through when using text. I don't wish to be dismissive of Randy. A forum on bunny health isn't the place to go around annoying people, anyway.
Chud seems to be doing well. His appetite looks normal, and he runs around and jumps. We were given Laxatone and Simethicone by the vet, and told to administer it twice a day for three days, or until Chud gets his appetite back.
We're making the following changes based on the advice given here, and the advice given by our vet:
-I'm changing the hay hopper they have. For the time being, they're getting a large, messy pile of hay each morning, and I'm noticing that when it isn't in the hopper, they eat more of it.
-We're probably going to give them laxatone on a regular basis. I'm thinking it's a good idea to smear some on their morning greens about once a week. Both bunnies hate Laxatone alone (but oddly enough, Chud has developed a taste for Simethicone and thinks it's a treat now), but they will eat it if it's smeared on food.
-Hay inside paper tubes with a treat in the middle seems like a good way to encourage hay eating.
As for Randy, he seems like a very knowledgable person, and I appreciate his advice. It was a vet from my clinic that suggested laxative as a preventative, and this opinion has been echoed by Ivory. Sometimes more subtle types of information that would otherwise be transmitted by body language don't make it through when using text. I don't wish to be dismissive of Randy. A forum on bunny health isn't the place to go around annoying people, anyway.
Bo B Bunny
Well-Known Member
You are completely right. What we say sometimes in a joking way - can be taken as a snide comment. I need to remember that myself - I always discuss how body language isn't apparent in typed conversations.
I'm really glad Chud is doing well! We really like to see the bunnies we discuss! :biggrin2:
I'm really glad Chud is doing well! We really like to see the bunnies we discuss! :biggrin2:
theevenstarlight
Well-Known Member
There was talk of rabbits eating carpet and the carpet causing the impaction. How can you get your rabbits to not eat carpet?
Gabby
Well-Known Member
keeping in mind all rabbits are different, and while there is a "general works for most buns" some just fall out of that catagory, something for every one to keep in mind.
I have a bun Stormy, who we (being myself and vet) have discovered can not eat fresh foods reguardless of what it is. I have hadhim since he was 12 weeks old and he is nearly 8 so yes we've had plenty of time to play around with this. any time he eats anything fresh he becomes 'bloated" in the respect of gastric dilation to the extream, and his stomache becomes very distended. and this is even with a nibble of greens. And we played around with it for the first 3 years of his life. now he eats his hay, his pellets, , a few oats and a papaya tablet couple times a week, those are the only things that his systems seems to tollerate.
THe first vet he ever saw insisted he just need more and more greens, she was very closed minded to the fact Stormy might be different. But his vet now understands he is different, and that every so often you do get different rabbits, there are some who can't tollerate even a few pellets. and other who can't maintain weight with out them.
Stormy is a very healthy bun now and a very good weight. we did discover in all his vet care that he is quite allergic to cats though. so when ever I have to bring him in for something he has to stay away from the cats, or go home after we are done with him(reason he's stayed is he goes in with me when I go to work, stays till i'm done work for the day fortunally he hasn't needed to ggo in for the last 4 years. *knock on wood*)
But this is one the reasons I say you find a diet that works best for the bun and yourself and you stick with it, even if it isn't what the mass groups agree with, as long as the bun is healthy and happy that's what counts right?
I have a bun Stormy, who we (being myself and vet) have discovered can not eat fresh foods reguardless of what it is. I have hadhim since he was 12 weeks old and he is nearly 8 so yes we've had plenty of time to play around with this. any time he eats anything fresh he becomes 'bloated" in the respect of gastric dilation to the extream, and his stomache becomes very distended. and this is even with a nibble of greens. And we played around with it for the first 3 years of his life. now he eats his hay, his pellets, , a few oats and a papaya tablet couple times a week, those are the only things that his systems seems to tollerate.
THe first vet he ever saw insisted he just need more and more greens, she was very closed minded to the fact Stormy might be different. But his vet now understands he is different, and that every so often you do get different rabbits, there are some who can't tollerate even a few pellets. and other who can't maintain weight with out them.
Stormy is a very healthy bun now and a very good weight. we did discover in all his vet care that he is quite allergic to cats though. so when ever I have to bring him in for something he has to stay away from the cats, or go home after we are done with him(reason he's stayed is he goes in with me when I go to work, stays till i'm done work for the day fortunally he hasn't needed to ggo in for the last 4 years. *knock on wood*)
But this is one the reasons I say you find a diet that works best for the bun and yourself and you stick with it, even if it isn't what the mass groups agree with, as long as the bun is healthy and happy that's what counts right?
Just to give a little more info, Erik recently had a partial obstruction. I called it a "hairball", in reality is was food and hair. It was an obstruction, at any rate. We were worried about surgery but he seems to be out of that boat so far. I left the X-rays in Baton Rouge, so I can't scan them in right now, but I want to when I get them back. But he was very close to being completely obstructed, but we managed to get it under control before any distension/ gas/the really bad sort of "stasis" sets in.
Bo B Bunny
Well-Known Member
Bo is very sensitive to fresh greens. If you think about it - it sort of does make sense tho. Bo's a mini-rex. That's a very domesticated breed. I think the breed might carry certain possible physical issues. Who knows? Just like people - they're all different.
He loves his greens but he doesn't get them all the time. It's nice to give him some tho cause it's like a huge treat!
He loves his greens but he doesn't get them all the time. It's nice to give him some tho cause it's like a huge treat!
I get the impression that Mini-Rexes can have random things floating around in there. I bought a book on the histories of the breeds and they showed some of the early Rexes- not pretty. There was one, it was born without random body parts. Lots of malformations from what I can gather...
An interesting read, though.
An interesting read, though.
