death of an entire litter at one week of age

[Carolyn J]

My sons rabbit had a litter of eight a week agoand all were doing well until last night when I checked on them to findthem all dead. This was mama rabbits first litter. Ours as well. I feelso bad. Like it was something I could have prevented. I had notbothered the nest for the first week as people had told me that thesomemothers may abandon their litter. Monday night I cleanedout the part of the hutch used for a bathroom and threw some fresh hayin. My guess is that mom piled more hay on top of her already completeyburied nest and accidentally smothered her babies. There were no markson the bunnies so I know she did not hurt them on purpose. She is not anervous rabbit and it did not appear to bother her that I was takingalook at her babies. Is it possible that since Ihadn't removed the babies to clean their part of the hutch that theirown waste was the cause of their death? I was told to leave them to thecare of their mother until they are able to crawl out of the nest ontheir own. My son is quite upset and I would like to have a possiblereason for this to have happened before I allow him to have her bredagain.

Thanks to anyone who may be able to help me to understand why this happened.

 

[Wabbitwuv]

Carolyn J,

I am so sorry for your family's loss. My thoughts are withyou. I'm glad you joined the forum.Welcome. You will find a lot of very helpful, thoughtfulpeople here.

Wabbitwuv

 

[Carolyn]

Help is on the way, Carolyn J.

I don't know what happened, but Pamnock will and as soon as she's online and picks up her email, she'll be here.

I'm so sorry for you and your family. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

-Carolyn

 

[Carolyn]

Were they're bellies fat?

Were they okay before the cleaning?

How's the mother doing now? Any signs of sickness or pain?

-Carolyn

 

[Carolyn J]

I had only checked on them the once and that wasthe day that I cleaned out the surrounding box and added more hay. Isaw five little heads and they had grown fur and appeared to be fine.Two nights later I found them all dead. Three of the eight were quite abit smaller in size but had fur the same as the rest. Typical for aweek old.Like I had said earlier I was going by what othershad told me and left the nest alone for fear that the mother would harmor abandon them. I guess now I wonder if I shouldn't have looked atthem at all. Although I still didn't handle them. The mother rabbit isvery calm and did not appear to be agitated.

 

[Carolyn]

Did they have a nestbox?

If the doe is upset or disturbed, she may kill or abandon her babies. Was she stressed?

What was the temperature in the environment they were kept?

Sawdust can suffocate the young. Were they exposed to that?

-Carolyn

 

[Carolyn J]

The babies did appear to be fine before cleaning.At least the five that I could see. This is why I think that themother(April) being as inexperienced as I am at this thought the addedhay should be added to the nest. When I found them dead they seemed tobe buried deeper than usual. This is my only idea as to what hapenedand I know that when and if she has another litter I will make surethat she has less hay available to her. Do you have any commentsregarding cleaning of the nest area. Should I have left it as I wastold by others having bred rabbits until they were old enough to leavethe nest on their own?

 

[Carolyn J]

The mother (April) did not appear to be stressedor bothered that I was looking at her babies. I keep them outdoors butshe has a house(wooden) and wire mesh cage. The pen is in a carportwhich is protected from wind and rain. When I lifted the hay on Mondaynight I could feel the warmth rising as soon as I lifted the cover momhad over them. They had survived and grew well for a week this way. Theonly thing in her nest was hay and rabbit fur and it was warm. Twonights later I felt no warmth when I lifted the hay and had to dig deepto find the babies bodies.

 

[Carolyn]

Hi Carolyn J.

I'm sorry that you got bad information.

It is generally recommended to check on the babies each morning.

You can then remove those that have passed, and check the others to seethat their bellies are round and warm. This indicates that Mom isfeeding them. If she isn't, they'll need your help.

The doe will not abandon her babies at the smell of human scent, especially if the doe knows you.

-Carolyn

 

[Carolyn]

Carolyn J wrote:

The mother (April) did not appear to be stressed or botheredthat I was looking at her babies. I keep them outdoors but she has ahouse(wooden) and wire mesh cage. The pen is in a carport which isprotected from wind and rain. When I lifted the hay on Monday night Icould feel the warmth rising as soon as I lifted the cover mom had overthem. They had survived and grew well for a week this way. The onlything in her nest was hay and rabbit fur and it was warm. Two nightslater I felt no warmth when I lifted the hay and had to dig deep tofind the babies bodies.

Oh You Poor Thing! What a horrible experience to go through. You andyour family are most certainly in my thoughts and prayers during thisvery difficult time.

I know Pamnock will help you find the answer.

Oh, Carolyn J., I'm so sorry.

-Carolyn

 

[Carolyn J]

I had not heard any thing other than leave themalone until I started online today trying to find answers for my son.Even the people who we got the rabbits from and who bredrabbits regularly. So I should pick up and move these babies from dayone to clean the nest? What about the large amount of fur in the nest?Wouldn't it get soiled the same as the rest of it? I amfeelingquite stupid and very guilty right now so I hope noone will judge me on my ignorance. Believe me I did not want my youngson to learn this sad lesson so earlyin hisyounglife . He was counting the days when he would get tohold them and was pretty upset over the whole ordeal. As was I.

 

[dajeti2]

I am so sorry for your loss. No one is going tojudge you. You did the best you could. My thoughts and prayers are withyou and your family. Give your son a hug from me. Poor little guy.

Tina

 

[Sarah]

You would never be judged and it isn't your fault.You did the best you could. You didn't mean for this to happen andchances are you couldn't have prevented it. My thoughts are with you.

 

[mom2many]

Iam so sorry for your loss, our familyjust lost our 5 buns and our41 week oldbabies as well. First it isn't your fault, no one will judgeyou here, everyone is in different stages of learning.

Our bunn never minded us touching her babies, but I didnt' clean in hernest box either. I would clean the outside but the inside Ileft alone as it has the smell of mom in it. I did check onthe bunnies everyday to make sure they were healthy and being fed, wealso had one stillborn so I had to take that one out.Sometime momma bunns don't feed their babies or if there were stillborn ones they might have prevented living ones from reaching mom ifthey were covering the live babies. Like you I was also toldnot to disturb them,my mom who grew up on a farm toldmenot to touch them until they had their eyes open cause themom would kill them. That is what would happen on their farmbut their rabbits were mostly wild and would stress the minute peoplegot close. Bunns that are used to people don't seem to mindus touching the babies and mommy bunns cant' put their babies back inthe nest if they crawl out you have to do it for them.

It is terribly sad that your family has to go through this and unlikemy circumstances you can't lie to your son (we told our girls the bunnshopped out and got lost). It is a tragedy but hopefully youcan turn it into a learning experience. I believe you canbreed her again but wait at least 8 days from when she gavebirth. Good luck and you are in our thoughts. Sending yougood wishes.

 

[trekcip5]

Have read down all the posts. First off,the doe should have had a separate nest box in which to build hernest. I put pine shavings on the bottom and then put the hayin the cage and mom builds her nest after that. As far ascleaning the box, it is not usually needed until about 2-3 weeks unlessmom is going in the box. When I clean the box, I remove itfrom the cage and have another one ready with shavings, I put the cleanfur and hay in there and put the babes in and cover them up with therest of the fur and hay that is clean. I then clean out theorigional nest box, put fresh shavings in it, and then do the wholeprocedure all over again. Putting the fur and hay back in thebottom, put in the babes, and cover again. Then put it backin the cage. We check our boxes at least twice a day from dayone. I pick up and check each kit, to be sure it has a niceround belly and talk to them ( of course). You did not saywhat breed your bun is. If it is a mini-rex, holland lop, orany other breed that carries the dwarfing gene, the kits that weresmaller, may have been peanuts, they get a dwarf gene from both parentsand can not grow. I have never lost a whole litter in the wayyou have described. It wasn't anything you did. Youcould not have buried them, as they will crawl out if it is too hot, orbury themselves deeper if too cold. It could bepossible that mom got confused by the hay being moved around andstopped feeding them, which is why we check them several times aday. First time mom's do strange things sometimes.

Best thing is to chalk up the whole thing as a learningexperience. I know that is hard for a child, but it took myson quite a while to get used to the fact that when his mini-rexes hadpeanuts, they wouldn't live very long, but he now accepts it as ahazzard of raising a breed with a dwarfing gene. He goes outand loves those peanuts the same as the rest, so at least they knowthey are loved for their short time with us.. There areseveral links on this board to a poem called "the rainbowBridge" Find it and print it out for your son. Minehas a copy framed on his wall to remind him where all his rabbits whohave passed on are now and that they will be there waiting for him whenhe crosses over many many years from now. So sorry for yourloss, but try again and perhaps things will go much better the secondtime around. Donna

 

[JessicaRabbit]

so terribly terribly sorry. No judgement here, yousound like a wonderful person, and you tried your best. All of our loveto you and yours

 

[batbunny]

i too, am very sorry to hear about your loss. like jessicarabbit said, you tried your best.

 

[phx_punk_girl]

im so sorry dear!

i had a simaler thing happen, and i still feel the same way. guilty.like it was my fault. although this thread has healped me some to feelmore at peace. but i kind of feel like crying now becuase im thinkingabout the babies again!

my bunny that i rescued had babies like 3 days after i rescued her fromthe streets. she was really skinny and hungry and dehydrated. i didnteven know she was pregnant. i thought she was skinny. her babies diedthe next day. all of them. i think it was a combination of her beingmalnurished and dehydrated, plus as was said, she was really stressedout. being in a new invironment and all. but dear lord, i feel sad andalso blame myself.

 

[pamnock]

I am so sorry to hear about the loss of the babies: ( That's so upsetting to the kids when this happens withtheir pets.

Regarding cleaning the nesting area: The kits depend on thescent to keep them in the nesting area, so it is not advised toentirely clean it out (just remove the wet bedding).Bacterial infections can develop in a very dirty nesting area, but ifthe babies were not wet or dirty, I wouldn't suspect that they diedfrom the nest not being cleaned.

I would suspect a possible viral infection that led to a bacterialinfection. It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong. Ifit was extrememly hot, the weather could have been a factor.

You should check the doe for mastitis (mammary gland infection).



Pam

 

[Carolyn J]

First of all I would like to thank everyone fortheir support and comments. I am a bit overwhelmed at the response Ihave gotten so quickly. I was told thatMama rabbit is a "meatrabbit". She was born and raised around children and is very tame. Ihadher bred to a dwarfmale. I was told that thiswas okay and wouldn't hurt the babies.I am curious as to thisnest box that everyone keeps mentioning. My mama rabbit just made anest in the corner of her hutch.I guess I should havesupplied her with a separate box. Do the rabbits use it instinctivelyor do we have to physically put the hay and fur into the box toencourage mom to give birthin it?