Color Genetics

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SunnieBunnie Rabbitry

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lanna21974 wrote:
Sincethe doe is the blue tort, your chances of cream are smaller.
Sorry, but I beg to differ.

Each parent donates 1 copy of each allele to thier offspring (50% chance of the Dominant gene being passed on to any single kit, and 50% chance of the Recessive gene being passed on to any single kit).

So if the Buck is the Agouti "A_" (Let's say he carries Self, "Aa")
And the Doe is Self "aa"

There is a 25% chance of any single kit being Agouti and 75% chance of any single kit being Self.

--- Let's Reverse it ---

IF the Doe was the Agouti (Carrying Self) "Aa"
and the Buck was the Self "aa"

There's still a 25% chance any single kit will be Agouti and 75% chance any single kit will be Self.



There is no preference or "dominance" whether it's the Sire or the Dam that carries any specific gene, it's how the genes are inherited from each parent. ;)

 

SunnieBunnie Rabbitry

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babbs wrote:
Hello Sunnie Bunnie,

blue tort- dam is broken orange and the sire is blue tort.

Orange buck- dam is broken orange and the sire is black tort.
Thanks! This helps fill in some gaps...

Blue Tort Doe (carries Wideband) = aa B_ C_ dd ee _w
Orange Buck (carries Self) = Aa B_ C_ D_ ee ww

Possible Offspring based onknown Genotypein order of relevance(For Sure Offspring Possibilities):

Orange (Aa B_ C_ Dd ee ww) and/or (Aa B_ C_ Dd ee _w) - wideband effects not complete (smut)
Black Tort (aa B_ C_ Dd ee _w) and/or (aa B_ C_ Dd ee ww) - no change in appearance either way

IF the Buck carries Dilute:
Cream (Aa B_ C_ dd ee ww) and/or (Aa B_ C_ dd ee _w)- wideband effects not complete (smut)
Blue Tort (aa B_ C_ dd ee _w) and/or (aa B_ C_ dd ee ww) - no change in appearance either way


 

lanna21974

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SunnieBunnie Rabbitry wrote:
lanna21974 wrote:
Sincethe doe is the blue tort, your chances of cream are smaller.
Sorry, but I beg to differ.

Each parent donates 1 copy of each allele to thier offspring (50% chance of the Dominant gene being passed on to any single kit, and 50% chance of the Recessive gene being passed on to any single kit).

So if the Buck is the Agouti "A_" (Let's say he carries Self, "Aa")
And the Doe is Self "aa"

There is a 25% chance of any single kit being Agouti and 75% chance of any single kit being Self.

--- Let's Reverse it ---

IF the Doe was the Agouti (Carrying Self) "Aa"
and the Buck was the Self "aa"

There's still a 25% chance any single kit will be Agouti and 75% chance any single kit will be Self.



There is no preference or "dominance" whether it's the Sire or the Dam that carries any specific gene, it's how the genes are inherited from each parent. ;)
Ahhhh...I see what you mean but maybe I worded it wrong.

I only meant that since the dam is the blue tortthen there'sa possibility that the buck doesnt carry dilute....therefore lowering the chances of having cream...as opposed to the known chances by breeding a dilute to a *known* dilute carrier.

She will never know if he carries dilute unless she test breeds him to a dilute or dilute carrier.



 

zuppa

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We have some folks here who are new breeders - so I thought it might be nice to share some information about color & genetics. Much of what I've learned - I've learned from reading various books and numerous PMs with Pam Nock, an ARBA judge and former member here.

I am really good at certain parts of color genetics...and horrid at others. I'm hoping that someone who knows more will add on to this thread and perhaps get folks talking.

Ok....there are 5 main "genes" that make up color in a rabbit. (As I type every sentence I think to myself and silently pray, "Oh Lord...please let me phrase this right..").

The first gene is the "A" gene or "series" as Rabbit Production puts it. There are three options for this:

A - Agouti

a[suP]t[/suP] - Tan

a - Non -Agouti

(I am using Rabbit Production as my source right now).

I amNOT good at the A gene/series at all - so I'm just going to share that much and this little bit....and then move on.

Each rabbit will get one gene from itsfather (sire) and one gene from its mother (dam). So it would be possible if you mated an Agoutibuck with a tan doe to get a baby that was Aa[suP]t[/suP]for example....taking the A from the buck and the a[suP]t[/suP] from the doe.
In genetics - the DOMINANT gene will have a capital letter used to represent it - meaning that this baby would look like an Agouti rabbit - even though it has the tan gene hidden (and that could come out in a future generation.

~~

Now let's go to a gene/series I understand! The B series!

B = black

b = brown

Now I know - you're reading this and going, "What about blue rabbits and lilac rabbits?". Well - you'll see how we get them later - but for now - trust me please that there are ONLY two major colors - black and brown - and that black is dominant. If you mate a black rabbit with a brown rabbit.....you're going to get a black rabbit that carries the brown gene (Bb).

~~~~

The C series really throws me - so I'm simply going to throw it out and let others explain it. I still really struggle with it and just can't seem to get a handle on it. The C series deals with shading...

C = full color

C[suP]chd[/suP] = dark chinchilla

C[suP]chm[/suP] = medium chinchilla (I'm not sure I've seen this one in other books I've read on genetics)

C[suP]chl[/suP] = light chinchilla

c[suP]h [/suP]= himilayan

c = albino

Let's say you take a sire with the C gene and a doe with the C[suP]chl [/suP]gene. The resulting baby (only thinking of one baby as an example here) will be a CC[suP]chl[/suP] genetically.

I sure hope we have someone here who knows more about the C gene.

~~~

Now - the "D" gene....another one I understand. "D" stands for density of color from what I understand. A "D" rabbit has dense color throughout the coat. "d" which is recessive has diluted color.

Let's go back to our rabbit who is a B (black). Please remember that each rabbit has two sets of 5 genes each (ABCDE) that it gets from its parents...

The Black rabbit who has at least one B will look black - AS LONG as it does not have dd for the density (taking one "d" from mom and one "d" from dad).

IF .. the rabbit with the B (Black) gene - has the "dd" - then you have a blue rabbit.

Now - let's take the "b" rabbit (brown). If it has the "DD" or "Dd" genes- it will be brown. However, if it gets the "d" gene from both parents and is "dd" - then it is considered a lilac rabbit.

So - it is the B and D genes working together that produce the four self colors of black, blue, brown & lilac.

~~~

Finally - the "E" gene....another one I struggle with. The possibilities are (in the order of dominance):

E[suP]d[/suP] = dominant black agouti

E[suP]s[/suP] = steel agouti

E = agouti

e[suP]j[/suP] = harlequin (WOO HOO - one of my favorites)

e = red or yellow

~~~~

There are other major coat color genes in addition to these and I don't have time to explain them so I'm going to just type them out...(I'm starting to fall asleep finally).

du = dutch

DU = normal

du[suP]d[/suP] = Dark dutch, minimal spotting

du[suP]w[/suP] = White dutch, excessive spotting



En = English

En = English Spotting

en = normal

si = Silver

Si = Normal

si = silver coat surface

v = Viennese White

V = normal

v = white coat, blue eyes

w = Wide Band

W = Normal Agouti band

w = wide agouti band



I'm going to include a picture of a doe that has the Viennese gene here so you can see how it would affect a rabbit if they were Vv. (A vv is a blue eyed white).




Ok .... genetics buffs and those who have questions.....let's talk if anyone is interested!

Peg

P.S. I used pgs. 337 - 346 in the 6th edition of Rabbit Production to glean the information in this format!
Had no patience to read all the formulas sorry but this rabbit looks exactly as one was rescued a few weeks ago I have no idea what this Viennese gene means could you tell what breed could it be? Or cross, mine is extremely fluffy I thought he's close to English angora harlequin and maybe little lionhead mix here's a few photos, his fur is absolutely gorgeous and very clean although I think he's not very young.

I have to take better photo of him but you can see his coat I believe he's gorgeous

SAM_0130.JPG SAM_0131.JPG SAM_0133.JPG SAM_0137.JPG

I'll re-post your photo here as well

 

Augustus&HazelGrace

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Had no patience to read all the formulas sorry but this rabbit looks exactly as one was rescued a few weeks ago I have no idea what this Viennese gene means could you tell what breed could it be? Or cross, mine is extremely fluffy I thought he's close to English angora harlequin and maybe little lionhead mix here's a few photos, his fur is absolutely gorgeous and very clean although I think he's not very young.

I have to take better photo of him but you can see his coat I believe he's gorgeous

View attachment 39442 View attachment 39443 View attachment 39444 View attachment 39445

I'll re-post your photo here as well

He looks to be a double maned lion head.
 

zuppa

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He looks a bit like lionhead indeed but not sure if lionheads have this kind of fur, he's not fat actually when you see him you'd expect him to be much heavier but it's just very fluffy
 

woahlookitsme

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He is definitely a lionhead. Color is Vienna Harlequin and just to let you guys know this thread is from 2006...

The Vienna gene comes from one parent that is a blue eyed white rabbit. If a blue eyed white rabbit breeds with a normal colored rabbit you will get babies with Dutch like markings (a blaze, stops, saddle, etc)
 

zuppa

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He is definitely a lionhead. Color is Vienna Harlequin and just to let you guys know this thread is from 2006...

The Vienna gene comes from one parent that is a blue eyed white rabbit. If a blue eyed white rabbit breeds with a normal colored rabbit you will get babies with Dutch like markings (a blaze, stops, saddle, etc)
I know this is an old thread just saw the picture in their post and looked so much similar to my rabbit I don't know much about him he was just left outside and I have him for a bit more than one month now, I think you're right he's a lionhead and thanks for specification!
 

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