Color confusion!

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Riverpines

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Location
South Central Wi, Wisconsin, USA
Hi everyone. I am new here! Glad I found other bunny lovers. :)

I raise Angora rabbits.

I have been working on colors for several years now.
I am just stumped by our latest kit.

She is beautiful and was a total surprise.

She comes from chocolate and black lines that still have a lot of unknown genes floating around.

We have gotten REPW, Lilac, Blues, Fawns, all different torts, brokens, etc from our buns but never this blend of color. But I still have a lot of hidden genes to discover. :)
Every year I find at least one new color or combo in a nest. :)

And the big surprise...this colored rabbit has red eyes. Very red, no mistake about it!! Red iris and red pupil. Totally red. I was shocked.
Her mom is Black with hidden genes and dad is chocolate with hidden genes.
They are all French/English crosses. I also have been working on fiber quality for my spinning hobby. :)
I havent found any info on colored rabbits like this with red eyes.
Everything is suppose to be gray or brown eyed.
She definitely is not a REPW. I have many of those in many pointed shades and of course white bodies. Her body is colored. I am confused.

So here is the strange red eyed, colored kits pictures. She is 3 weeks old.
A close up of the color.
CopyofDSCN7460.jpg


And her entire body.
Copyof001.jpg


Thanks for any help. :)
 
What a pretty color! I don't know anything about colors, though (strictly a pet owner with speutered bunnies). Maybe some kind of silver-tipped lilac? I wanted to say hi from Wisconsin and that we have another WI Angora lover on the board too--she's crossing them with satins. Hopefully she'll pop in and say hi!

edit: have you seen this?
http://www.angorahouse.com/angora rabbit genetics.htm
 
tonyshuman wrote:
What a pretty color! I don't know anything about colors, though (strictly a pet owner with speutered bunnies). Maybe some kind of silver-tipped lilac? I wanted to say hi from Wisconsin and that we have another WI Angora lover on the board too--she's crossing them with satins. Hopefully she'll pop in and say hi!

edit: have you seen this?
http://www.angorahouse.com/angora%20rabbit%20genetics.htm
Click to expand...
Thanks. We love her. My daughter named her Frosty.

Yes I have seen that site and I have several bookmarked that explain rabbit genes. Thats the problem. There are no red eyed in this kits color. All the genetic colored rabbits sites I have found all say the same thing...no red eyes in colored rabbits except REW, REPW, and then the blue...BEW. All the rest are various shades of grays or browns.
I am assuming that with the genetics and colors being so large in variables that I just havent found a site with the info or there isnt one and I need to find people that know.

My daughter said she thinks the kit is a Chin but Chins dont have red eyes from what I have found on the net. I dont want to record the color wrong in our genetic info.

 
OIC. I would guess that there are multiple genes for eye color, some that are linked to coat color, but not all are. That's how you could potentially get a coat color that doesn't match the eye color in the breed standard, but I'm just hand-waving here. I'm sure someone like Pamnock will have much better info for you.
 
I don't know the color either, I had a holland buck come out that color and he had lilac eyes, he was a dilute something was all we were able to define- i figured Dilute lilac. He also lightened in fur coat to almost white by 6 weeks.

Gorgeous none the less. I wish I could be more helpful.
 
The sad part is she will loose most of that body color soon when she gets her adult wool in. This is one time I wish she wasnt an Angora.
My buns loose most of their guard hair and some loose all the guard hair on the body, the ones with more English in their line.

Soon that beautiful body will have mostly wool and little of that pretty hair. :(

But if I am lucky she will take after the French and retain more guard hair!!
Maybe even retain too much!!!
I cant believe I am wishing for one of my Angoras to retain their guard hair!! :tears2:

LOL

 
Do you have photos of the eye color? I'm thinking she's either a frosted pointed (the frost will molt out) - I've had some so darkly frosted that they appeared to be chins. Or, she could be a shaded carrying REW, giving a very distinct ruby glow to the eye.

I'm leaning towards my first guess- chocolate pointed.

There is one gene known that can cause albino pink eyes on colored rabbits - the pink eyed dilute. It is common in other animals in the US such as cavies, but extremely rare in rabbits here and have only been seen in the few that have been imported (they come in other colors besides the one shown below - the gene does partially dilute coat color. Below is a lutino - others are known as "shadows").





Pam
 
pamnock wrote:
Do you have photos of the eye color? I'm thinking she's either a frosted pointed (the frost will molt out) - I've had some so darkly frosted that they appeared to be chins. Or, she could be a shaded carrying REW, giving a very distinct ruby glow to the eye.

I'm leaning towards my first guess- chocolate pointed.

There is one gene known that can cause albino pink eyes on colored rabbits - the pink eyed dilute. It is common in other animals in the US such as cavies, but extremely rare in rabbits here and have only been seen in the few that have been imported (they come in other colors besides the one shown below - the gene does partially dilute coat color. Below is a lutino - others are known as "shadows").





Pam
Click to expand...
Thank you. I am charging my camera here and will try to get the eyes. Not easy on a kit! LOL
He eyes are red, not pink. Thats one thing I checked when my daughter discovered the kits eyes the day the first one opened. I didnt believe my daughter at first and couldnt see the eyes good enough when they first opened so I waited and now that they are fully open, red! My daughter was right. :)

Its so frustrating with hidden genes. My angoras were started, 5yrs ago, with various rabbits from different places but they all were chocolates, blacks or torts, none pedigree.
Just trying to figure out who is carrying what has been a challenge.

This kit is from mother to son breeding to find whats hidden. Mom being black and son is chocolate and then who knows whats underneath! ;)
Her litter with her son gave us blues, chocolate, lilac and this kit.
Of course the blue and lilac were no surprise, I knew they have the dilute gene.
They have the Ch for the REPW in their line.

As soon as that bat for the camera is charged enough I will try to get the eyes. :)
 
Ok not only was this hard but confusing!!
They look blue with a pink overlay? LOL
I brought her up into the house into the porch room where its bright and sun shiny. The rabbitry is low light.

She has strange eyes! LOL

Pink?
Red?
Or something all together different that I dont know yet?

I know turning off the flash helped!!! LOL

Tiny eyes are hard to take a pic of when your camera doesnt do close ups.

But here is the best I could do on such a little kit.

This one is where you can see what I saw, it looks like blue with pink over it.
She is in shadow here so no light would alter anything.
Copyof022.jpg


In the light from the sun shining they show redder but that pale blueness is still underneath.
Copyof010.jpg


 
Just for reference in case anyone is interested. This is one of my REPW's.
This rabbit is distance related to the ones that made the strange kit.
She is low quality in looks but she is an awesome mom and bun.
We have had her for 4 yrs now and she is still as sweet as ever.
Her name is Cinder.
As a kit.
Picture159.jpg


Just under 1 yr. Her points did spead and with age, on the feet, ears, tail. I dont have a recent pic.
CopyofPicture113.jpg


This I expected in the litter since in its the line. Not the surprise strange one we got!! LOL
 
A pointed in the background would lend more to the theory that thebunny is pointed - guess we'll have to wait a little and see!

Pam
 
pamnock wrote:
A pointed in the background would lend more to the theory that thebunny is pointed - guess we'll have to wait a little and see!

Pam
Click to expand...
But not pointed white so pointed what?
Its not a red eye pointed white if the rabbit is colored on the body. Its suppose to be all white except the points.
~Scratches head in total confusion.~


 
I'm thinking Chocolate pointed white. Baby frosting is not unusual and molts out. Sometimes the pointed white babies are actually rather dark completely over their bodies.

Pam
 
pamnock wrote:
I'm thinking Chocolate pointed white. Baby frosting is not unusual and molts out. Sometimes the pointed white babies are actually rather dark completely over their bodies.

Pam
Click to expand...
Wow. I didnt know that.
Thanks for the info.

If that does happen it will be the first time its happened for me. I never had any of my colored rabbits turn white before and I never had a REPW kit born colored before, other than its points. But theres a first time for everything!!!

It will be interesting to see what happens.
But I have a feeling, the colors are not going away and she wont be white.
Just a feeling. :)
Time will tell and its so exciting!!! :biggrin2:

 
We found the gene!!!
Our bunny is cchl!!!
The cchl does sometimes cause the eyes to have a ruby glow!!!
And my daughter found the rabbit responsible 5 generations back in the line!!!
A smoke pearl had the cchl gene!!
I knew it wasn't a ch, pointed white.

Plus as the kit gets older her color is absolutely beautiful and it becoming more impressive, not fading away!!


 
Here is baby's genes.
She is called a lilac sable.
aa bb cchl- dd E-
Her color wont breed true. If you breed 2 rabbits together with this gene code you may get lilac point which will breed true. But you wont get another lilac sable.
 
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