we have a one year old netherland dwarf who possibly has cheilitis. we took her to the vet she had us apply silver sulfadiazine cream to her lower lip and nose area. for the first two weeks her condition seemed to be clearing up but the scabs started to come back and since she was not too crazy about the cream we stopped applying it. now the scabs seem to be coming back with vengeance. we are calling the vet tomorrow . any insight on this condition would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brent and Sharon
cheilitis
- Thread starter brent
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What diagnostics were done to confirm what it is, and what type it is? Its definitely not common if it was diagnosed correctly.
Like other issues (Pneumonia for example) there can be multiple causes. Viral, Bacterial, Fungal, etc.... You need to know what is causing it and deal with it that way. And treat the animal topically as well as systemically.
Like other issues (Pneumonia for example) there can be multiple causes. Viral, Bacterial, Fungal, etc.... You need to know what is causing it and deal with it that way. And treat the animal topically as well as systemically.
Did the vet rule out treponematosis(rabbit syphilis)? It's a common condition in rabbits(even ones that have never been bred) and can cause sores and inflammation around the mouth and nose(as well as the eyes and genitals). It is easily treated with a course of injectable penicillin.
You can read more about it here.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syph_gen.html
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syphilis.htm
As Watermelons also mentioned, fungal could be a possibility as well, depending on what symptoms you are seeing.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Fungal/Fungal_en.htm
You can read more about it here.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syph_gen.html
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syphilis.htm
As Watermelons also mentioned, fungal could be a possibility as well, depending on what symptoms you are seeing.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Fungal/Fungal_en.htm
Thanks so much for the information. The Vet did do a debridement around Feb 15th. She found it to be bacterial in nature. We are headed to the Vet now. We did print the link with the info about syphilis. It helps to have questions and information. Hopefully we will be on the road to recovery!
We are still having problems with Sadie. About a month ago we started Sadie on enroloxacin (baytri) .12 ml twice daily. After two weeks she showed great improvement, and now at four weeks it appears that the lessions are coming back and spreading. In the beginning we determined that it is bacterial and not a fungal infection. If any of you have had experience with this type of infection or can give any advice, we would appreciate it.
Attached are pictures of little Sadie.
Thanks
Sharon and Brent
Attached are pictures of little Sadie.
Thanks
Sharon and Brent
Did the vet ever consider it being due to syphilis? If it were syphilis, treating with baytril can affect some improvement, but once the baytril is stopped the lesions will reemerge.
"[FONT="][FONT="]Administration of the narrow spectrum antibiotic penicillin G (benzathine/procaine: 42.000 - 84.000 UI/kg, SC, IM), 4-6 repeats at intervals of 5 to 7 days, is the treatment of choice against rabbit syphilis. (Rabbits should NEVER be administered penicillin orally; it can lead to severe diarrhea).
[/FONT]Most other antibiotics will not cure the infection. Mostly, healing of the skin lesions is observed during the treatment, but relapse will occur as soon as the treatment is stopped as the Treponema cuniculi bacterium is not killed. This is particularly the case of fluoroquinolone antibiotics. Clinical signs and skin lesions develop rapidly after the treatment is stopped, often in a more severe form than before."[/FONT]
(quoted from the link I posted above)
Looking at your photos, that very well could be rabbit syphilis. It certainly looks to be presenting in the same manner. Combined with the fact that it responded to a fluoroquinolone antibiotic(baytril), but it didn't clear it up and is now coming back in even worse than before, would also suggest that this could be syphilis. Rabbit syphilis is caused by a bacteria that cannot be cured with baytril. It can really only be treated with injectable penicillin, but it will clear up completely when the correct course of pen g procaine/benzathine is given for several weeks. All this information along with photos you can compare to, is in the links that I provided previously. If it were my rabbit, syphilis would be at the top of my list as the possible cause, and that is what I would want to treat for.
If you do treat for syphilis with pen g, a few cautions. Pen g should always be injected in rabbits, never given orally. If there is any leakage at the injection site, always clean it off thoroughly so it is not groomed off by the rabbit and ingested as this can lead to enterotoxaemia. It's always best the rabbit be eating a high hay(grass variety) diet(and confirming that the rabbit is in fact eating the hay well) with minimal pellets, as the fiber from hay helps the gut while a rabbit is on antibiotics. Giving a probiotic like bene bac may also help. It's also best to limit or better, eliminate, any high sugar/starch/carb foods, like fruit, grains, or carrots, as these can negatively affect the microflora in the gut, especially while a rabbit is on antibiotics. And at the first sign of any watery diarrhea, your vet should immediately be contacted and treatment for enterotoxaemia (metronidazole, questran) should be started without delay as it is a fatal illness in rabbits. It's not common that it happens with injectable administration of penicillin, but it can happen in rare instances and is something to be aware of and watch out for.
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Bacterial/Clostridial_enteritis_rabbits.htm
"[FONT="][FONT="]Administration of the narrow spectrum antibiotic penicillin G (benzathine/procaine: 42.000 - 84.000 UI/kg, SC, IM), 4-6 repeats at intervals of 5 to 7 days, is the treatment of choice against rabbit syphilis. (Rabbits should NEVER be administered penicillin orally; it can lead to severe diarrhea).
[/FONT]Most other antibiotics will not cure the infection. Mostly, healing of the skin lesions is observed during the treatment, but relapse will occur as soon as the treatment is stopped as the Treponema cuniculi bacterium is not killed. This is particularly the case of fluoroquinolone antibiotics. Clinical signs and skin lesions develop rapidly after the treatment is stopped, often in a more severe form than before."[/FONT]
(quoted from the link I posted above)
Looking at your photos, that very well could be rabbit syphilis. It certainly looks to be presenting in the same manner. Combined with the fact that it responded to a fluoroquinolone antibiotic(baytril), but it didn't clear it up and is now coming back in even worse than before, would also suggest that this could be syphilis. Rabbit syphilis is caused by a bacteria that cannot be cured with baytril. It can really only be treated with injectable penicillin, but it will clear up completely when the correct course of pen g procaine/benzathine is given for several weeks. All this information along with photos you can compare to, is in the links that I provided previously. If it were my rabbit, syphilis would be at the top of my list as the possible cause, and that is what I would want to treat for.
If you do treat for syphilis with pen g, a few cautions. Pen g should always be injected in rabbits, never given orally. If there is any leakage at the injection site, always clean it off thoroughly so it is not groomed off by the rabbit and ingested as this can lead to enterotoxaemia. It's always best the rabbit be eating a high hay(grass variety) diet(and confirming that the rabbit is in fact eating the hay well) with minimal pellets, as the fiber from hay helps the gut while a rabbit is on antibiotics. Giving a probiotic like bene bac may also help. It's also best to limit or better, eliminate, any high sugar/starch/carb foods, like fruit, grains, or carrots, as these can negatively affect the microflora in the gut, especially while a rabbit is on antibiotics. And at the first sign of any watery diarrhea, your vet should immediately be contacted and treatment for enterotoxaemia (metronidazole, questran) should be started without delay as it is a fatal illness in rabbits. It's not common that it happens with injectable administration of penicillin, but it can happen in rare instances and is something to be aware of and watch out for.
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Bacterial/Clostridial_enteritis_rabbits.htm
Gezellige_Poes
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I would recommend dabbing a little Manuka honey on the affected areas. It's perfectly safe to ingest. In fact, giving the bunny some using a syringe if fine, too. I buy mine from the manufacturer directly, http://shop.wedderspoon.com/wedderspoon-raw-manuka-kfactor-16-500g-17-6oz/. There is much written about this honey and tons of confusion as to honey content and where to buy. I have used Wedderspoon honey to treat many different chronic and acute conditions which great success. I will write more later- wanted to get this posted ASAP.
That's great! I'm so glad your vet listened to you and that the treatment is working. Usually syphilis isn't commonly thought of as a cause for skin conditions in pet rabbits, but as you discovered, it does sometimes happen.
