CAR bacillus transfer between species

[SnowyShiloh]

Does anyone know anything about the bacteria CAR bacillus? My friend found out today that all of her rats have it. Three of my rats came from her and are exhibiting the same symptoms. It's highly contagious and pretty much 100% chance that my other two rats have it now as well. It's one of those bacteria that can never be eradicated. In the brief research I've done, I've found that rabbits can get CAR bacillus as well. Does anyone know if it's transferable between the two species? Considering how contagious it is, I don't see how I can justify keeping the ratties if they're a risk to my rabbits. Especially Skyler, who has lived 6 inches away from the rats for the past 2 months. He has EC so is really at risk!

EDIT: I found this article:
http://la.rsmjournals.com/cgi/reprint/23/2/96.pdf

Can someone with more science background translate it for me? I DO understand the last line, which says ""Our transmission experiments suggest rat origin CAR bacillus can be transmitted to rabbits and that the CAR bacillus has the potential to spread to other species of rodents and rabbits"

That sounds rather worrisome to me.

:tears2:

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Here is an article about CAR bacillus in rats: http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/car_bacillus.php

 

[tonyshuman]

It's clear from that info that rabbits can get CAR bacillus. It does not appear, from those articles, that the bacterium can spread unless the animals are in direct contact. It seems, though, that it's already present in many rabbits, much like pasturella species. (well at least in Italy, where this study was done)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9719769?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=19

Also naturally present in rabbits in Missouri: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7983839?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=35
and symptoms of infection in rabbits in Missouri:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7538614?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=31

That second article also says that the CAR bacillus found naturally in rabbits is not the same species. The rat one can infect rabbits, and the rabbit one can infect rats, but the ones you find naturally in each species are different.

I also found this article where they treated mice with CAR bacillus with some antibiotics.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8569147?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=29

So, from all this info, I would not worry. It is rare for the bacteria to be transmitted via air. Don't let your rats and bunnies touch, and I'd wash hands or at least use sanitizer between touching them, at least until you can get the CAR bacillus infection under control in your rats. It may not be a bad idea to move Skyler, just because of his weakened state, but it seems that the bacterium is only transmitted via direct contact. A treatment with ampicillin (not for bunnies), chloramphenicol, streptomycin, or nalixidic acid may help the rats out, and the last reference I wrote used a sulfa drug as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gram-negative_bacteria

 

[pamnock]

I agree with tonyshuman that the spread of this bacteria across species is unlikely in healthy individuals under normal circumstances. I would be more cautious with any immune compromised individuals such as Skyler.

 

[Maureen Las]

Great info Claire!!!

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Sorry I haven't replied until now, today (Sunday) was my birthday so I wasn't around much.

Claire, thank you so much for that information! I was hoping you would reply because you have a science background and can "decode" scientific things better than I can. Thanks so much. I'm really glad to know that it is safe to keep my ratties. I love them and don't want to part with them, but I would have had to do it if the bunnies were in danger. Skyler will most definitely be moved. We may actually move the rats upstairs to keep them away from the bunnies and have their out of cage play area in a separate part of the house. I will have "rat clothes" to wear when playing with them.

The friend who adopted my three older girls to me feels really guilty. We didn't really want more rats but took them to help her out, and now we've found out they have this illness (which is proving pricy to treat). Worst of all is that my two little girl rats are infected now also. They aren't showing any symptoms yet, but it's probably only a matter of time. Poor girls. I am having SERIOUS bad pet luck.

 

[tonyshuman]

Happy belated birthday and I hope you get some good luck with your creatures soon! It has seemed like one illness after another with your guys lately! Your plan to isolate the rats sounds good. Can you and your friend go halfsies on an industrial size bottle of ampicillin?