cage space requirement

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No, 24"x24" isn't for babies, that's what I use to house my full-grown adults (3-4 lbs.) They live individually, just one bunny per cage.

This size of cage provides plenty of room to sit down, stand up, lay down, turn around, hop back and forth, etc. My cages are tall enough that they can not only stand, but also reach to sniff the top of the cage. Hollands are small rabbits and they are comfortable and happy in a cage this size.

You will find different opinions, some say bigger is better. Others will say the opposite. I certainly wouldn't use a cage so small that the rabbit's movement was restricted. That isn't healthy and can cause physical distress. However, rabbits are burrowers and prey animals who feel most comfortable in a "cozy" area. While my rabbits do like running in their x-pens for exercise, I find that they prefer their home base to be less open and expansive.

Use your judgement. :) You will definitely find varying opinions on what is "best" because all of us have different experiences.

What your rabbit absolutely NEEDS is housing that is safe/secure, dry, and large enough to allow him to move in any direction he pleases. Beyond that, there are many adjustments you can make to enhance the area. Like most of us, you will probably change your mind several times and adjust your rabbit's surroundings several times before settling on what works best for you.

Can you fit a litter box in a 24 x 24 with still enough room for them to stretch? I can't even find a 24 x 24 cage the length is usually big in the 30s & width is in the teens ..so annoying >_<
 
Imbrium, I tend to agree with what you're saying. Probably what got me was the use of the word welfare in relation to pets/rescue, but not related to breeders. Let's just say that if I wasn't concerned about the welfare of rabbits (mine or others), I'd spend a lot less time browsing around a bunny forum. :p

I totally understand why you felt the need to post what you did - we sometimes accidentally come down a little hard on the breeders around here just because you guys are the minority; I know you're all used to getting put on the defensive now and then ><

I think breeders and pet owners alike tend to forget that the grass on our own side of the fence isn't greener, it's just a different flavor ;).

A good (albeit exaggerated) analogy for the difference between breeder methods and pet owner methods is to consider a professional athlete and a couch-potato with a desk job. Would you suggest that they both eat the same diet and follow the same exercise program simply because "they're both humans?" Of course not - their lifestyles are vastly different. The athlete needs a diet that's higher in calories and essential nutrients to give their body the energy they need and would be more worried about not over-exerting themselves than about pushing themselves to get more exercise. The couch-potato would need a lower calorie diet aimed at preventing obesity and would need to focus on increasing their activity/exercise instead of sitting around all the time. What's best for one of them isn't what's best for the other.

House bunnies are little loafs, prone to being overweight if we don't encourage them to eat healthy and stay active. While a breeder's rabbits are busy rearing kits (if they aren't currently getting a rest break) or running the show circuit and generally being "productive members" of the rabbit community, my little loafs are being veggie-gobbling, pellet-snarfing slackers who have nothing better to do with their days than come up with new ways to destroy their condo and torment the cats. Get a job, ya mooches!
 
That's a nice one! The cover isn't needed indoors unless you have nosy cats who like to jump, but that price is very good for that size enclosure even not taking the lid into account (since you'd almost certainly have to go with something higher than 24'' without the cover). The only downside is that you'd have a heck of a time getting into the pen with the rabbit(s).

Out of curiosity, can you customize it at all? For example, could you leave one ceiling panel off, allowing you to add to it with NIC grids to make a second level (obviously with a half-way step so the rabbit could get up there)?

I took all the grids completely apart and used them to build a better more accessible cage, I couldn't find anywhere in England to get the grids on their own and this seemed a really cheap option :)

I also found things like these
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000TAN2XS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

To add different levels, they're made for cages and just clip in, you can get all sizes! They do more than corners as well :)
This cage was supposed to be temporary whilst my buns get fixed and also for when I go to my parents for the holidays (You can just take the levels out and fold it up!) but I've been so creative with it and my buns (take it in turns to be in the cage and out of the cage) love it so it's a permanent set up in our house now!
 
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That's awesome that you can totally re-arrange it... if I understand correctly, it sounds like you can use the "ceiling" panels as extra side-walls if you want? That would make a massive pen!
 
I totally understand why you felt the need to post what you did - we sometimes accidentally come down a little hard on the breeders around here just because you guys are the minority; I know you're all used to getting put on the defensive now and then ><

That's okay, I know breeders tend to do the same thing in the other direction too. I'm on a few online communities where it's "pet owner this" and "pet owner that." I'm like…WAIT! We ALL have exactly the same goal! :)
 
A single rabbit or pair of rabbits needs *either* 24/7 access to 60+ square feet of space (a "run" area attached to their cage with playpens, for example) OR at least 4-5h outside the cage each day. Bigger is always better with cages unless they're free-range all the time (like a house cat), though the more time they spend out, the more you can scrimp on cage space.

An important thing to consider is that rabbits are most active around dusk and dawn - they don't sleep all night like most people do. Mine are usually awake and often bouncing off the walls at 3 am, to the point that they seem almost as nocturnal as my sugar gliders sometimes. In other words, if you cage your rabbit at night, you don't want him to be bored and destructive in a small cage.

While there's not a "minimum cage size" per se, ALL store-bought rabbit cages are way too small. Most people who want a cage build one themselves with storage cube grids (aka a "NIC condo" or "C&C cage"); some opt to convert a large dog crate or just fence off an area with pens.

I also live in a 2bd apartment... we've sacrificed a large portion of the living room to fence off a run for my rabbits, but that's not practical for most people. We tried free-ranging them, but they bullied the heck out of the cats, peed on ALL of the cats things, ate the cat food, camped out in the cat box (I use pine pellets in it just to be safe, since almost all cat litters are unsafe for bunns), etc. Our poor cats hid out in the master bedroom most of the time, helpless in the face of an evil little lionhead and her Holland lop side-kick. Since space is a concern for you, I'd recommend a NIC condo that focuses on height to get extra space. If you bunny-proof and litter box train, you can let him out for a few hours a day to avoid having to fence off a 60+ square foot area.

Here's the first NIC condo I built - it's 2 grids wide x 3 long x 5 high, so it only has a "footprint" of 28'' x 42'':

DSCF0411.jpg


(I didn't have direct access between the first and second floors in that condo because they were never locked in it - obviously you'd need to leave a grid out so your bunny could jump up if the cage were going to be closed)

You can build a cage like that for around $110-$130. With grids on the bottom floor for added stability, which I did with that condo, it would require four boxes of 23 grids; however, I built a 2 wide x 4 long x 5 high condo at my boyfriend's apartment (I'm living at his apartment for a year while he finishes school and then we'll move back to my house 3h away) and I did NOT line the bottom floor with grids yet it's still plenty sturdy. Not using those six extra grids would let you eke by on three boxes of grids for a 2x3x5, saving you around $22.

cage info:
http://breyfamily.net/bunnycage.html
http://www.guineapigcages.com/cubes.htm (shows how to do coroplast floors if you'd rather use that than plywood)
best deal on grids for the cages: http://www.sears.com/stor-floor-sta...p-00913332000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1 (do site-to-store for free shipping if they aren't stocked at your local sears)

I prefer coroplast (corrugated cardboard) for my floors, as it's cheaper than plywood and can be cut with a $1 pair of box cutters. Most Home Depots sell a 3'x6' sheet for around $14, which is the cheapest I've seen.

Also, dowels can really help add some stability to a big cage (they stop the floors from sagging) - Home Depot charges $3-4 each for dowels, which is a rip-off. You can find 3' long dowels in a large enough diameter for cage support at Hobby Lobby for under $1 each.

Home Depot (or Lowe's, etc.) is also not the place to buy zip-ties. HD is like $5 for 100 of the 4'' ties and $18 or so for 1,000. If you're lucky, you can find some in a dollar store (Dollar Tree, for example) that are $1 for 100. Failing that, you can find way better deals online than at hardware stores - for example, I sell 500 for $3.80-4.05 (natural is cheaper than black for some reason) on my website; shipping for just the zip-ties wouldn't be more than about $2.

If you dig around with the search option on the forums, you can find lots of pictures of different condo and DIY cage designs - everyone does theirs a little bit different ;). Here's a good thread; I think there might be a new/2013 version of the thread as well.

I just saw the pictures you posted. We are in the process to move into a new house, and I want to rebuild their cage. I used shelving panels like you, but I wanted to see how you did yours. Would you be willing to post a full size image of the picture you posted? the one posted was a bit to small and I could not see the details.
 
Unfortunately, I can't get them to post any bigger on the forums these days... however, if chrome and photobucket are less disagreeable than they were the other night, you might be able to see the full versions through a photobucket link:

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x465/mareimbri1/DSCF0411.jpg

(mind you, there's no direct access between the first and second floors in that design because they were never locked in the condo as it's attached to a large run made of playpens)

Here's my new condo:

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x465/mareimbri1/condo_zps01ae83ef.jpg~originalhttp://s1183.photobucket.com/user/mareimbri1/media/condo_zps01ae83ef.jpg.html

Apparently I can't get a larger size to appear with the link on the second one *grumble* - I think it has to do with the first one being a link that was copy/pasted into a notepad somewhere and was generated before I was forced to switch to the "new" Photobucket ages ago.

The thing I like most about the new condo compared to the old one is that the level that's only one grid high is in the middle instead of on the bottom - that makes a HUGE difference in how much of a pain it is to clean out the condo (my girls are messy little punks!).
 

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