Brody...ugh!!

[undergunfire]

When we moved into this new house, the new bunny room (well, all the bedrooms) have new medium brown colored carpeting...so I have to be extra careful with the bunnies in their room.

Well, we first bought a sheet of no-holed peg board for the base of the bunny cages. Brody started peeing on the floor, so I bought stick on vinyl tiles to make it water proof. Well, then Brody started peeing on the side of his cage, so that the pee would run off the side of the cage floor and onto the carpet and into Morgan's cage.

Ryan and I just went out and bought coroplast and made a base for Brody's cage. He has 2 inch sides. Well...it keeps the pee in....kinda. Brody pees a RIVER...not just a little puddle. I walked into the bunny room this morning to greet a major pee river in the middle of Brody's cage....he's been using it as a slip and slide.

There is pee EVERY WHERE. Pee has been flung all the way over to the rat cage, all over the walls (even though I have a good portion of them covered by the bunnies, all over Morgan's cage, all over Brody's NIC cage panels, all over Brody, and all over the carpet.

I don't know what to do to stop him from peeing. His litter box is spotless, I've changed and changed back to different wood pellet litter. If he ruins the carpet....we are out $600 for the pet deposit. I can't be home all the time to wipe up his pee before he gets the chance to "splish splash" in it.

What do I do to stop him from peeing all over? He always used to use his potty box, but until lately he has been revolting. I have even washed the area down with vinegar and it does nothing.


Now, onto his cecals. They are a constant issue that I quietly complain about. He doesn't eat them...he just lets them out, then lays in them and smushes them to his cage floor. This is an issue because after a while I have to catch him (takes me like a half hour), bundle him in a towel, and take a pair of scissors to his under side and cut off all the hard clumps of poop...he gets very matted. It is gross and I am always concerned he isn't getting the right nutients. Do I change his pellets from Oxbow? What do I do?


Of course....as I type this he is shaking his cage bars for no reason.



Anyone want a dirty Holland Lop :grumpy:?

 

[Amy27]

Have you tried putting some hay in the litter box and maybe that will make him want to go in there more? One thing you could do maybe as a temp fix is to get some cheap carpet and put in there so it absorbs the urine and he can't play in it. You can get really small pieces for a few bucks. I know Pet Supplies Plus here has pieces for $1.98. Then I just take them and throw them in the washer.

I would be tempted to make the cage smaller until his litter box habits got better. Can you get a bigger litter box? I have a huge cat litter box for mine and when I put the hay in there they like to just sit in there and hang out.

Are you picking up the poop and putting it in the litter box so hopefully he will catch on that is where they go? I have heard this helps but I am not really sure, never seemed to help mine.

If he is going in on particular spot I would move the litter box to that spot or put something over that spot so he can't get to it.

Good luck I know it is frustrating.

 

[undergunfire]

Amy27 wrote:

Have you tried putting some hay in the litter box and maybe that will make him want to go in there more?
Yep..he has a hay rack hanging directly above his litter box. If I was to put hay down in his litter box, he wastes it and it is expensive hay .

One thing you could do maybe as a temp fix is to get some cheap carpet and put in there so it absorbs the urine and he can't play in it. You can get really small pieces for a few bucks. I know Pet Supplies Plus here has pieces for $1.98. Then I just take them and throw them in the washer.
Brody eats anything fabric. I got him a woven carpet and fleece scraps before and he eats them.

I would be tempted to make the cage smaller until his litter box habits got better.
He barely gets run time, so I really do not want to have to make his cage smaller. The only way he can have play time is when I have to *try* to pick him up to get him out into the hallway on the tile...which can only be done at certain times because you have to walk through the hallway to get through the house.

Can you get a bigger litter box? I have a huge cat litter box for mine and when I put the hay in there they like to just sit in there and hang out.
I have a massive rubber maid bin litter box.

Are you picking up the poop and putting it in the litter box so hopefully he will catch on that is where they go? I have heard this helps but I am not really sure, never seemed to help mine.
Yes, but his poops aren't really the issue. It is his cecal poops, which he does do in the litter box *sometimes* because they get smashed onto the canvas netting.

If he is going in on particular spot I would move the litter box to that spot or put something over that spot so he can't get to it.
He is peeing anywhere he feels like it.

Good luck I know it is frustrating.

Thank you. I am very frustrated by him and have been for quite a while. I thought I would wait it out and let it pass because sometimes he just pees in his cage to be a jerk...but now it is non stop. The next move is into a purchased wire bottom cage...which is something I do not want to have to do to him, but I also can't let this keep happening because the pee is obviously an issue and so are his cecal poops getting smashed all over his under side and forming matts.

Ugh...I just don't know what to do about him!

 

[TinysMom]

Amy - I'm sorry you're going through this - the one thing that I think of - is to have him checked to make sure he doesn't have a bladder infection.

I thought Tiny was having behavioral issues and peeing everywhere because of it - as we later realized - he was having other issues...and now anytime that a normally litter-box trained rabbit breaks their habits - that is my first thought - to check for some sort of an infection.

Good luck!

 

[undergunfire]

TinysMom wrote:

Amy - I'm sorry you're going through this - the one thing that I think of - is to have him checked to make sure he doesn't have a bladder infection.

I thought Tiny was having behavioral issues and peeing everywhere because of it - as we later realized - he was having other issues...and now anytime that a normally litter-box trained rabbit breaks their habits - that is my first thought - to check for some sort of an infection.

Good luck!

Will his pee have a different color or texture? He is eating fine and drinking fine. I'd just hate to cause him major stress with going to the vet. He doesn't even let me pick him up...I can't imagine what the vet would be like :shock:.

What about his cecals? This is an ongoing issue since we got him (September '07) and I just worry he doesn't get all the nutrients. Could it be the Oxbow BBT for some reason?

 

[tonyshuman]

Yeah that is weird that he doesn't eat all his cecals. What exactly do you feed him (and amounts)? My guys will only not eat them if they've been getting too many starchy treats or pellets (I guess this makes them less hungry)or if they're upset.

 

[slavetoabunny]

As an interim solution, could you get a tarp and put in under the cage and up against the wall. It would at least save the carpet and wall until you figure out a solution.

Probably a really dumb question....but is Brody neutered?

 

[undergunfire]

tonyshuman wrote:

Yeah that is weird that he doesn't eat all his cecals. What exactly do you feed him (and amounts)? My guys will only not eat them if they've been getting too many starchy treats or pellets (I guess this makes them less hungry)or if they're upset.

I feed him Oxbow BBT and he gets 1/4th cup of pellets at night. He also eats lots of timothy or bluegrass hay from Kleenmama's. He doesn't eat veggies because none of my guys are super big on veggies. If I had to choose a "veggie bunny", though, Brody would eat them more. Would feeding veggies help?

The bunnies get a tiny penny sized "kibble" treat 2-3 times a week. They are natural homemade Apple & Oat treats that a friend made for us. I also give the bunnies a tablespoon of old fashioned oats once a week at random (its really just a treat).

I have never, ever, seen a cecal poop from Marlin or Morgan, so seeing Brody's all the time like I do is terrible. I will have to show you guys a picture (maybe tomorrow)...even though it is gross. I scrape off semi hardened cecal poops from his shelf daily...it is gross....and it still gets stuck all over him.


Oh, and yep...Brody is neutered and has been for well over a year .

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Bo has his hay rack and2 litterboxes for his lower level because of his "pee issues" and then his upper level is his blankies and water and pellet dishes... He poos while eating hay and wants to pee in the front corner of the cage.

Since he can't keep from peeing in the back of the lower level, I closed it off..... I am NOT cleaning 4 litterboxes. He doesn't care.

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Peg already said it, but bladder infection was my first thought too. That paired with the excess cecals, maybe a vet visit is in order? If it is a bladder infection, he can get treated for it, and if it isn't... well, at least you'll have health issues ruled out!

Sorry you're going through this, it sounds so unpleasant for both of you. Brody's such an adorable little man, you can mail him to me if he gets to be too much!

 

[undergunfire]

SnowyShiloh wrote:

Peg already said it, but bladder infection was my first thought too. That paired with the excess cecals, maybe a vet visit is in order? If it is a bladder infection, he can get treated for it, and if it isn't... well, at least you'll have health issues ruled out!

Sorry you're going through this, it sounds so unpleasant for both of you. Brody's such an adorable little man, you can mail him to me if he gets to be too much!

How do they test for bladder infections? Going to the vet is not an issue, but it is the stress involved for him that worries me...Brody stresses easily. Sammy (our dog) has a vet appointment this Saturday with Dr. Batt (our bunny vet), so I can try to call tomorrow to see if we can squeeze Brody in really quick as well. I actually have a coupon for a free office visit for up to 2 pets.

Also, would he be eating/feeling any different if he had a bladder infection? He is eating just fine and seems to be feeling just fine.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Could you take them a urine sample?

 

[undergunfire]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

Could you take them a urine sample?

Yeah, I could. Watch him not pee again outside of his litter box though ...things like that always happen to me, lol! Just so I know, how much would testing for a bladder infection be do you think?


ETA: How do I collect a urine sample? In a paper towel in a baggie? How fresh does it need to be? I have never collected "samples" before, lol! Which reminds me...I need to ask doggie people a question....

 

[Bo B Bunny]

You really need it in a clean container...... and liquid. If you can't do that, they'll need to get it themselves.....

I would phone them first and ask. i have no clue how much it would cost there.

Poor boy I bet he's stressed out over the move tho....... maybe he's making sure he has his place all marked? however the cecals worry me.

 

[undergunfire]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

You really need it in a clean container...... and liquid. If you can't do that, they'll need to get it themselves..... I would phone them first and ask. i have no clue how much it would cost there. Poor boy I bet he's stressed out over the move tho....... maybe he's making sure he has his place all marked? however the cecals worry me.

Hrm...sounds gross, but maybe I can wipe it up with paper towel, then ring it into a container. I wonder how fresh it needs to be? Ugh....PEE :grumpy:....lol! I'll phone them tomorrow and see what I can do. Hopefully they can squeeze Brody in right after Sammy...as Sammy is just getting checked over...I'm not getting any testing done or anything on Sammy right now.


ETA: With the pee...sometimes I wonder if he just gets bored and revolts? He hasn't peed outside of his litter box since this morning...which is a good thing! The cecals are to worry about, though. I should talk with Dr. Batt about the cecals too, and see what she thinks.

 

[tonyshuman]

The food sounds fine, especially since he doesn't eat veggies. You could probably cut back a little on pellets, but it's probably no issue. Muffin's a Holland too and she gets less than 1/8c of BBT (plus 2c veggies though).

It could be a bladder infection. What they will do is a dipstick test (I've read up a bit on this while updating the Urinary Tract Problems Infirmary thread) where they dip a paper stick into the urine sample to see if there's blood in the urine--less than you can see. Vets like a fresh sample. You could collect some but I think the paper towel wouldn't work. Vets will collect urine from any hard surface the bunny pees on (carrier, exam table) or if that's not possible put a needle into the bladder to withdraw a sample. Some vets prefer this over any other kind of collection because it's a much cleaner sample. However, not good with a bunny that already gets stressed at the vet. You could collect a sample from the floor by using an eyedropper or not putting anything in his litterpan and pouring it out of the pan into a vial.

Is there any chance Brody's too chubby to keep his bottom clean? (meaning no offense of course--Muffin has a hard time keeping her big loppy feet clean and gets mats on them--she's maybe a tiny bit overweight--so I know the breed can be hard to judge appropriate weight on cuz they can be poofy and stuff)

 

[Bo B Bunny]

You know, when we fed Bo more pellets, he had a poopy butt all the time.... he doesn't eat many greens either... Any moist foods like romaine or green leaf will give him soft poos if we give him more than a leaf.

However, I was sort of wondering if Brody isn't upset about the move?

Is his cage in a different place where he can't see the others? Maybe he's angry about that?

 

[JadeIcing]

Your describing Dallas. Sorry but so far my experience is clean, clean and clean again.

 

[NZminilops]

I may be going against the grain here a little, but I would get him the largest, plastic based petstore style cage I could find. I don't recall the exact name brand, but I think it's something that starts with m? Merchurio? Er...anyway, I know one of the brands has a pretty large cage. It's got a creamy sort of coloured base and a wire top.

From memory it's about 120cm/47inches long. I think that's about 3.5 NIC grids long, or thereabouts, depending what size grids you use.

I know you don't want him in a tiny cage, but for your sanity, it maye just be the only option.

The entire cage would then be his litter tray. I would layer down some newsprint perhaps, then a layer of your litter of choice, then a scattering of hay.

No matter where he pees, it'll hopefully be on the litter then. I have done this with rabbits that just pee and poo where they feel like it. After a few weeks, or months even, they start to learn that litter is what the pee on. I then reduced the area of litter slowly, week by week, until it was 3/4 of the cage, 1/2 the cage, 1/4 of the cage etc etc, using a plastic grill I found somewhere down in the garage.

When you've eliminated health issues, and tried everything you can think of, sometimes it's just how the rabbit is and not much you can do about it really. He might always have to live on litter.

 

[JimD]

JadeIcing wrote:

Your describing Dallas. Sorry but so far my experience is clean, clean and clean again.

I've got the same thing going on with MooShu and Brindle.

I'm forever cleaning piddle puddles :grumpy:

Brindle, Benji, and S'more all have excess cecals if I give them too many pellets or oatsies or sunflower seeds or dried papaya.
I found that dividing their pellets between breakfast and supper helped some. But, more so the very careful measuring...(ie; exactly one level 1/8 c scoop of pellets, exactly 6 rolled oats, or 6 sunflower seeds, no more than a 1/8" cube of papaya, etc.).