Bonding -

[samijayne]

Sorry if in wrong place

I have successfully bonded two of the three rabbits. Flopsy (female) and Sooty (boy neutered) have been living together happily since middle of jan.

I've tried several times to bond them with Fudge (boy neutered) But Fudge always humps flopsy. And Sooty really hates Fudge, Even before Sooty bonded with Flopsy. They were attack each other, and bite an kick etc.

I read that I should shove them together all 3 of them for about 20 mins aday. With a water squirter. Sadly that didn't work, they didnt care for the squirter and carried on. So that put a stop to it.

But since the weather is lovely. As of yesterday, I've had the hose out. So I'm trying again, the hose works. They back off.

Today I thought they were making progress, and Fudge would sniff Sooty and Sooty wouldnt attack. But then after about 5 mins of this, they were biting again. Flopsy sits in a corner, and tries to stay out of it. But Fudge runs over to her, and tries to sniff her. She'll then run to Sooty and He's so worked up he'll bite her. Then she'll run away again.

After 20 mins of this, I take Fudge out and put him in the run thats right next to the run Sooty and Flopsy are playing in. So they can sniff each other through the bars. And Sooty and Flopsy seem fine afterwards.



Any tips? Should I give up? I'll be moving soon, so I'll be leaving a run for my partners brother. (which is why we have 2 runs at the mo) So I'll be down to one run again. And its unfair to keep them in the cage, when its so lovely.

I really want to carry on, the most thats happened upto now is a loss of fur.

 

[hartleybun]

poor buns!poor you! dont give up, patience is everything when dealing with buns and animals are very good at picking up our emotions. from your post it seems that they are fine in their own territory. you also say that you are moving soon. this would certainly give them a neutral territory to meet on. a place that hasnt been chinned or scent marked by any of them.

has flopsy been spayed?

i would be inclined to put all three bunnies together somewhere other than their own run and see what happens

 

[samijayne]

The run that the rabbits use mostly is the one that was built for me. I bought the new run less than a week ago. And we have a really big garden. So we move both runs around daily.

I also take all toys out of the new run.

When I'm not trying to bond them, or dry them lol. Either flopsy and Sooty are in the older home built run, or fudge is. The new run is mostly used by my partners brothers rabbit.

 

[hartleybun]

samijayne wrote:

When I'm not trying to bond them, or dry them lol.

:rofl: if they are like mine then they will have marked every piece of the run and garden. when ever i bond bunnies i have the first meeting in one of our bedrooms - somewhere that hasnt been claimed by anybun.

 

[Flashy]

Have you tried things like car journeys?

 

[samijayne]

They've all been in the house either together, or seperate. The dinning room, kitchen, and bathroom.

No longer allowed in Lounge, or bedroom =( my partners a spoil sport.

Does hoovering help take scent marks away? or would the kitchen be best due to it getting floor bleached ?

And they do go in the car, but in there own carriers. Do you mean just let them run around in the car loose? :S My partner will never allow that =D

But up to now the only way to seperate them without them hurting each other is the hose. I've tried the bathtub, with a broom or the shower as a spray but couldn't get it to work. And tried spraying them when they were allowed in the lounge.

 

[Flashy]

No, DEFINITELY not lose, lol, but you could try them all in a big box together, or if the carriers are big enough, all in one carrier together.

It sounds like doing what you are doing is not working because of how the rabbits are reacting, so it's time to get more creative.

Another option is to put them in an empty bath all together.

Hoovering won't remove the scent, only scrubbing the area, normally with a solution of water and distilled vinegar. That is what neutralises the area.

Is there anyway you could try them in an area that is completely foreign to all of them?

 

[samijayne]

Not that I can think of at the moment.

So I think I'll try the water an distilled vinegar on the new run until I can think of something else.

Does it matter if I put Sooty and Flopsy in to the run first? and then put fudge in. or should I get my partner to help me put them in so they go in at the same time?

 

[Flashy]

Ideally they could do with going in all at the same time, so I would say rope your partner in to help

 

[samijayne]

Flopsy is stil running away from Fudge. But today she did lay down so he could sniff her. But when he tried to have his wicked way with her... she ran off.

Should I allow him to erm... be rude with her? Or should I treat that as bad behaviour?

Sooty and Fudge both ran away from the water today, and ended up sitting next to each other. Which at first they didnt mind. They were busy cleaning themselves.

Fudge does try to go over for a sniff of sooty, But sooty snaps at him. Or starts a fight.

Within minuites of being in the run today, they were soaking wet. Thank GOD the weather is lovely. =(

 

[Flashy]

Mounting is a normal part of a bunny relationship, so as long as it's not causing a fight, then let them get on with it.

 

[samijayne]

weathers turned awful, will be awful all week except for tomorrow. So it's going to get in the way of bonding. =(

I read somewhere that if I put a teddy in with the rabbits, then put the teddy in with the other rabbit. They get to learn each others smells? I've put a little teddy in both hutches, and plan on swapping them in a few days.

Does this really help at all?

 

[samijayne]

I thought about putting the rabbits in each others cages so when they return to there own cages they can smell each other?

But other than that, the bonding did seem to go well. Fudge lay down, and Sooty did come over to sniff him. Which was shocking. But then they were back to snapping/biting kicking again afterwards.

The thing I don't understand is... Sooty and Fudge are both neutered. Sooty has never mounted Flopsy. yet Fudge trys over and over.... I dont understand? I thought neutering would stop this? IT doesn't seem to have fazed him.

Fudge has a few little cuts, one onhis nose, one on his ear and one on his side =( I really feel like a horrible owner. I am thinking of giving up.

I just don't know what else to do, keep putting them together with the risk of getting hurt? or let Fudge live alone =(

 

[gentle giants]

I would personally not EVER use the hose onmy rabbits, and the water squirter is probably not a good idea when it comes to bonding either. That could make them associate meeting other bunnies with the unpleasantness of being soaked.

I don't know if you mentioned this or not, but are you introducing them on neutral territory? Also, never end a bonding session on a bad note, in other words don't put them back in their separate cages when they are fighting. Wait until one of those moments when they are calm. How long have your boys been neutered? If it hasn't been very long, they may still have some hormones in their systems to complicate things for you.

 

[DazyDaizee]

I don't know if it would help to bond Fudge with each individual rabbit. Maybe Sooty is being protective of Flopsy, or feels more like the area is his territory with her being there. Maybe Fudge sees Flopsy as a potential mate and is competing with Sooty (especially if he's only recently been neutered.. which I don't know if that's the case).
I successfully bonded 3 rabbits at one point. Two had been raised together. All were fixed. The new boy was bonded with the female first, then introduced to the other male. The males always had little tiffs, but more just one chasing the other, competing for the females attention. They didn't actually fight with each other, but they were never buddies. They both preferred the female rabbit's attention.

I think that you need to try a different scenario than just the run. Mix up the locations they go to and definitely end on a positive note, as was mentioned. It would also be good if you can switch them into each other's areas every day or every few days, and keep them side by side (in their cages or runs) so they always see each other and get accustomed to the other rabbit's presence.

Though it seems you're having more bad experiences than good, the fact that they aren't fighting constantly is good and can occasionally sniff each other without a fight. That's progress.. so it's possible. I think you may have just gotten them into a rut and need to try some new things.

I also disagree with the hose. Stress bonding can be useful when all else fails, and essentially that's what many bonding methods are based on, but at the same time you don't want to make it a negative or extremely stressful experience when they are together. This may make things worse. Try rewarding them for good behavior instead of just scolding for bad. Also, my rabbit knows what "NO" means. And when she (through playpen bars) starts to get aggressive with another rabbit, I give her a firm "NO" and she will stop. She does understand when she's bad. I think we sometimes underestimate bunnies. Simple corrections and rewards for positive things can help a whole lot. Obviously it's not going to break up a fight in progress, but it might prevent one when you see warning signs.

 

[samijayne]

My rabbits don't understand the word "no". I would reward the rabbits as well, but when the boys are together they won't eat. The only thing they will eat, is the grass sometimes. But they stick there nose up at food they adore normally.

I tried bonding the boys together before I bonded Sooty and flopsy. But in teh 3 years i've had them they've always fought when put together.

They were neutered last year.

Nothing else works, other than the hose. Which depends on the weather if I use or not.

The run is the most neutral territory I have. Its new, and they either go in my other run or go in "together" in to this run.

My rabbits dont just chase each other, they bite, kick, we've realised its mostly Sooty.

I did like the idea of going around RSPCAs and letting Fudge choose a new "friend" but my partner is against the idea. So its either solo for Fudge, or try and get through with the bonding =/ Which sucks seriously.

Nothing worse than seeing your babies fight =(

 

[samijayne]

The weather was good today, So I tried again.

They had been sniffing each other last time, and it was mostly sooty that started fights. But today, Fudge was taking none of it. The hose didn't faze them. It was like they didn't notice.

I am giving up on the run idea. (Fudge and Flopsy were alone for a bit also, and Fudge just runs after Flopsy trying to hump her or sniff her. But she either is flirting.. or doesn't like it, as she runs away all the time. Then when Fudge gets bored, she runs over to him an knocks him an runs again. But doesn't get upset, and never stamps her feet. So I don't know if she likes him or not)

I am tempted to try putting them in the bath, Just fudge and Sooty. I'm worried about them scratching the bath, as This house we're in at the moment is my partners parents house. And the bath is new, ... what are the chances of them scratching it? Any ideas what I can put down to reduce scratching? (I have a walk in shower... Is that useable?)

Or should I just use the the bathroom floor?

Tempted to try putting them in to a box, and going for a drive also.

Will the drive settle them down..? why is that idea so good? =/

How do I separate them if they do fight?