Bonding advice needed - not sure where we're at

[Sialia]

Hi everyone, I've lurked here for several months but haven't posted anything yet. I'm hoping for some advice.

We have a 2-year-old neutered male mini lop (will call him OldBunny) and a little over three weeks ago, we adopted a 3-year-old neutered male Holland lop (will call him NewBunny). OldBunny is free range. He lives mostly in our kitchen/dining room but has the run of much of the rest of the main floor of the house. NewBunny lives in my son's bedroom (free run in there).

We followed all the usual advice on bonding - let them get used to each other's scent by switching litter boxes and stuffed toys, and sniffing each other through gates, then started out with dates in our bathtub (neutral territory) over about a week and a half. We moved onto dates in our hallway (semi-neutral; each rabbit could take turns in there, and then we let them in there together for half-hour dates for about a week).

OldBunny quickly established his dominance by mounting NewBunny, which NewBunny tolerated. There was no fighting. If NewBunny got tired of being mounted, he'd hop away and OldBunny didn't usually pursue him, or would hop up to him and groom him.

Things were going so well (OldBunny grooming NewBunny, sharing meals of hay and salad, lying next to one another) that I decided to try introducing them to what would be their shared territory (our kitchen/dining room). This had been OldBunny's territory previously so I completely cleaned out his NIC condo and totally rearranged it, replaced the litter boxes, etc. Once I felt that it had been neutralized, I let both bunnies into the kitchen. As in the neutral and semi-neutral territories, OldBunny mounted NewBunny, which NewBunny tolerated for the most part. OldBunny groomed NewBunny, and they ate together and lay down together.

However, I still didn't trust them together alone so at night for the next 4 days I had them in the shared area during the day but put NewBunny back into a separate bedroom overnight. That meant OldBunny stayed in the "new" shared territory overnight, which in hindsight was probably a mistake.

Since things were going well with them in the shared territory during the day, I decided to try a 48-hour bonding session with them left in the shared territory together, in the hopes that it would cement their bond and I could leave them together.

So they were in there all day and overnight and were doing great - no scuffles, just OldBunny grooming NewBunny, eating together, cuddling, etc. Everything was great until mid-afternoon of the second day, when they suddenly started fighting - chasing, fur pulling. No injuries. I separated them and they retreated, then after a few minutes, OldBunny approached NewBunny and started grooming him and then grooming himself. They seemed to have made up and sat together for about 15 minutes. Then they started moving around the kitchen and had a face-off - NewBunny refusing to groom OldBunny and all heck broke loose again. This time, when I pulled them apart they'd just fly back at each other so I finally completely separated them and put NewBunny into the bedroom. I tried putting them back together after an hour or so of cooling off and again they seemed okay initially - NewBunny went to a ledge in the condo and ate a bunch of hay and appeared to go to sleep, while OldBunny sat on the kitchen floor and looked at me angrily. Eventually, though, when they emerged the fighting started again so I separated them again and they've been apart now since yesterday afternoon.

I think there are two possible problems:

1) NewBunny refuses to groom OldBunny. They'll push their foreheads together and eventually OldBunny gives in and grooms NewBunny. A few days before moving them to shared territory, I tried smearing banana on OldBunny's forehead to encourage NewBunny to groom him. BIG mistake! NewBunny went berserk, trying to mount OldBunny and chasing him all over the place. OldBunny looked completely confused. I separated them so I could wash the banana off of OldBunny and when I put them back together, they seemed okay. OldBunny tentatively came up to NewBunny, and NewBunny went into a submissive position and let OldBunny mount him.

2) NewBunny is getting more comfortable and is starting to assert his dominance. He's very cautious and reserved so maybe it's just taken him this long to decide he's ready to be dominant.

So now I think I just need some advice. I thought we were doing really well but maybe I've rushed things. Should I go back to semi-neutral or even neutral territory? Should I try a car ride or other stress bonding? I don't want to make the wrong decision and ruin things further.

Also, I think I need some reassurance there's hope for these two.

Any comments or suggestions will be much appreciated.

 

[Blue eyes]

I feel your frustration, having gone through some difficult bonds as well.

Male/male bonds can be difficult. You've made some good progress. I think now it will take some creativity, loads of patience, and a good bit of trusting your own gut instincts.

If it were me, I'd seriously consider making some big (though temporary) adjustments to OldBunny's living space. Since his space is ultimately where you want both of them to be, I think it would be good to try to remove that space from being OldBunny's territory. If he could be placed in a different area altogether for a couple weeks (at least), that might be a start.

My thought is to make more use of that hallway for bonding sessions. Use just that space for establishing a really strong bond. Get it to the point (gradually) where they are able to stay there 24/7 without any issues.

In the meantime, maybe an x-pen can be a new temporary home for OldBunny somewhere else in the house. The idea would be to attempt to neutralize the main kitchen area and the NIC that is there. Vinegar wash that whole area and re-arrange the NIC (or even move it somewhat to a different area of the kitchen/dining area). Keep both bunnies completely out of the kitchen/dining area until you have a solid bond established.

So this would mean using the hallway (or some other neutral area) to do a complete bonding. Once they are able to stay together 24/7 in that neutral area, keep them in that area for at least an additional week (preferably two weeks). [Actually, some might even suggest a month.] The idea is to FIRMLY establish the bond before bringing them back into the kitchen/dining area.

Hopefully then, with their bond established, neither bunny will by competing over the territory of the kitchen area.

Oh, one other side note... when you bring them back in to their new area, don't give them too much space all at once. This can cause territory issues. Start in just the NIC for a day or two. Then wrap an x-pen around an area that includes the NIC. Just gradually increase their space to prevent territory disputes.

well... that's my 2cents worth of advice

 

[Sialia]

Thank you so much for the suggestions!

I hadn't thought of taking OldBunny out of the kitchen completely but I'm going to try that. I've got an x-pen already, as well as a couple of large dog crates, and one XL dog crate, so I can do something with some combination of those in another area of the house. Maybe the living room since I still want OldBunny to be able to have a few hours a day of roaming.

Do you think I should continue doing some bonding sessions in the hallway while I sort out OldBunny's temporary space? Or should I just give them a break for a few days? I feel like giving them too long a break might set them back, though.

Thanks again!!

 

[Blue eyes]

It sounds like with their last encounter they had started fighting. In that case, giving them a break for a few days can actually be helpful to the bonding process. It gives them a chance to forget (hopefully).

When 2 bonding bunnies get into an all-out fight, it is usually suggested to completely separate them for 2-4 weeks anyway. So I don't think it will set your two back to be apart for a while.

 

[Sialia]

Okay, great, thanks so much, Blue eyes. I'll keep them apart for a while. I'll also work on a new setup for OldBunny, which could take a while anyway since I just realized that we've got to set up a Christmas tree in the living room and that'll take up a bunch of space.